First burn with new Pioneer DVR-108 == instant coaster :-(

[Riot Nrrrd]

I just bought a new Pioneer DVR-108 burner and put it in an ADS Pyro 1394b FireWire 800 case. The drive came with version 1.10 firmware so I went over to rpc1.org and burned the "DVR-108D 1.14 + RPC-1 + 12xRip" firmware (but not the one with >NIL's extra stuff in it - I was afraid his stuff would cause problems with writing these DVD+R DL discs). The drive is recognized by the OS ("drutil") and by Toast 6.0.7 just fine.

I got the drive with a Ritek/Ridata 5-pack of 2.4x DVD+R DL double-layer media. So naturally I thought I'd burn a DVD disc as a test of the drive. I fired up Toast and it recognized the drive and the DL media, I left the burn setting on "Best" (maybe I should've set it to "DVD 2X"), and let 'er rip ...

It started to do the write, said there was 37:42 left to go.

30 seconds in it aborts with 2 pop-up windows:

The drive reported an error:
Sense Key = UNIT ATTENTION
Sense Code = 0x04, 0x01
LOGICAL UNIT IS IN PROCESS OF BECOMING READY
[ OK ]

(after clicking "OK", the 2nd error came up: )

The drive reported an error:
Sense Key = UNIT ATTENTION
Sense Code = 0x29
POWER ON, RESET, OR BUS DEVICE RESET OCCURRED
[ OK ]

I clicked on "OK" and it wrote the lead-out and quit. Instant $9 coaster.

There is nothing in the system logs about these errors.

Needless to say, I'm pretty disheartened at this point. The only other thing on the FireWire 800 bus (the source of the DVD I was writing was on my internal hard drive, not on a FireWire disk) is a 250 GB RAID array, which is quiescent. I could remove it from the bus, but I'm not sure that it's the cause of this problem.

Any theories? Bum drive? Bum firmware burn? Should I try different firmware? I only have a 17" iMac and PowerBook (both running 10.3.5) at home, so I don't really have the option of installing it internally instead of in a FireWire case.

[galactica]

wow, i left mine at the firmware it came with and she's bruning fine, even with the 2 dl's i tested

did you happen to burn BEFORE you did the firmware update? or did you update the firmware immediatly.

wonder if you could return it still with the statement, it just doesnt work?

[Riot Nrrrd]

Needless to say, I'm pretty disheartened at this point. The only other thing on the FireWire 800 bus (the source of the DVD I was writing was on my internal hard drive, not on a FireWire disk) is a 250 GB RAID array, which is quiescent. I could remove it from the bus, but I'm not sure that it's the cause of this problem.

Well, I got a little further. I removed all my other FireWire devices - both on the FireWire 400 bus (not sure that was necessary, but when in doubt, strip out everything ... ) and my Wiebetech dual-disk RAID1 enclosure from my FireWire 800 bus, which was first on the bus with the DVR-108 daisy-chained off of that.

I meant to do a Simulation Mode burn but it accidentally reset itself to regular burn mode, so I got a burned disc anyway (oops) - anyhow, by some minor miracle this time the disc burned all the way through (set at 2x). However, about half-way through the Verify pass Toast got an error and said that "Sector # <some big number> could not be read", and the verify pass failed. My system logs also recorded:

Oct 24 12:23:10 localhost kernel: REPORT_KEY failed : ASC = 0x24, ASCQ = 0x00
Oct 24 12:23:13 localhost last message repeated 2 times
Oct 24 12:23:19 localhost kernel: SAM Multimedia: READ or WRITE failed, ASC = 0x11, ASCQ = 0x05
Oct 24 12:23:41 localhost last message repeated 4 times
Oct 24 12:23:41 localhost kernel: disk1: I/O error.

The burned disc plays, but who knows if the whole thing will play or not. Right now I'm using a UNIX® command to dump the entire disc (as a byte stream) to the bit-bucket to see if it hiccups at the same spot:

[12:26] pb17:~ % dd if=/dev/rdisk1 ibs=2k of=/dev/null

If it croaks before it reaches the end of the disc, I'll know how far along it got before it hits the bad burn spot, at any rate.

Also, earlier I ran PatchBurn 3 beta, tried to burn an Audio CD-R in iTunes, and it too errored:

The device drained its buffer without burn underrun protection.

This time the system logs said something:

iTunes: Burn started, Sun Oct 24 08:43:18 2004

iTunes: Burning to CD-R media with SAO strategy in PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-108 1.14 via FireWire.

iTunes: Requested CD burn speed was max, actual burn speed is 32x.

iTunes: Burn underrun protection is supported, and enabled.

iTunes: Burn failed, Sun Oct 24 08:45:35 2004

iTunes: Burn sense: 6/04/01 Unit Attention, Logical unit not ready, in process of becoming ready

iTunes: Burn error: 0x80020060 The device drained its buffer without burn underrun protection.

So it claims "Burn underrun protection is supported, and enabled", and then it proceeds to error ("Unit Attention" again) and claim "The device drained its buffer without burn underrun protection" after having said burn underrun protection is supported and enabled?!? I don't get it ...

Either I've got the wrong settings (in the PatchBurn profile - anyone have some good settings for the "Advanced" mode for this drive?) or maybe I bought a lemon

(That was with the FireWire devices still connected on the bus, however. So I'll try burning another CD-R in iTunes after I check the DVD+R DL burned disc, this time with the FireWire devices off of the bus, and see if that allows the burn to work.)

Very frustrating! (Obviously the source of my burning material, video or music, is on the FireWire drives and not the internal drive)

P.S. To Galactica - I up-rev'ed the firmware first. (My DVD video material was on my fiancé's iMac, and it took 6+ hours to transfer it over wireless to my PowerBook. So I got impatient and up-rev'ed the firmware first.)

[Riot Nrrrd]

The burned disc plays, but who knows if the whole thing will play or not. Right now I'm using a UNIX® command to dump the entire disc (as a byte stream) to the bit-bucket to see if it hiccups at the same spot:

[12:26] pb17:~ % dd if=/dev/rdisk1 ibs=2k of=/dev/null

If it croaks before it reaches the end of the disc, I'll know how far along it got before it hits the bad burn spot, at any rate.

... and sure enough, it croaked:

[12:26] pb17:~ % dd if=/dev/rdisk1 ibs=2k of=/dev/null
dd: /dev/rdisk1: Input/output error
1904224+0 records in
7616896+0 records out
3899850752 bytes transferred in 2455.599929 secs (1588146 bytes/sec)

Oct 24 13:07:23 localhost kernel: SAM Multimedia: READ or WRITE failed, ASC = 0x11, ASCQ = 0x05
Oct 24 13:07:45 localhost last message repeated 4 times
Oct 24 13:07:45 localhost kernel: disk1: I/O error.

Bad spot on the burned disc at 3.63 GB in - is there any chance that's happening at the transition layer? It's at almost exactly (slightly over) the half-way point in the total size of the source DVD (which is roughly 7.19 GB total), and I can't seem to read past the hiccup point, which makes me suspicious ...

[Riot Nrrrd]

So now I just realized ... even if I'd gotten the burn to work properly ... my Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II DVD player can't play the disc!!! God, do I feel stupid now ...

I just assumed the dual-layer DVD+R DL discs would be seen as "regular"
DVD-9 DVD Video discs by most players ... apparently not

May have to sell this rig and give up on it ...

[TugBoat]

Yea, I was wondering about that. The LaCie external that uses the NEC burner automatically sets the booktype to DVD-ROM. I hadn't heard about the Pioneer. What does the burnt Pioneer disc list as, DVD+R DL or DVD-ROM? Does the Powerbook's drive read it?
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@4.Hi4Qa25NAJH.1@.689bd26e
I'm still waiting before I buy my DL burner....

[Riot Nrrrd]

Yea, I was wondering about that. The LaCie external that uses the NEC burner automatically sets the booktype to DVD-ROM. I hadn't heard about the Pioneer. What does the burnt Pioneer disc list as, DVD+R DL or DVD-ROM? Does the Powerbook's drive read it?
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@4.Hi4Qa25NAJH.1@.689bd26e
I'm still waiting before I buy my DL burner....

I can put it in the PowerBook's internal SuperDrive and it can read it, yes.

Well ... except for those VOB files that seem to be in the "Forbidden Zone" where reads in that region of the disc yield repeated errors in the system.log file like:

Oct 24 15:22:34 localhost kernel: SAM Multimedia: READ or WRITE failed, ASC = 0x10, ASCQ = 0x00
Oct 24 15:22:34 localhost kernel: disk2: I/O error.
Oct 24 15:22:34 localhost kernel: udf_read: error 5

So, basically, I ended up with a "partial coaster".

As for what "the burnt Pioneer disc list[s] as, DVD+R DL or DVD-ROM":

% drutil status
Vendor Product Rev
MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-815 X101

Type: DVD-ROM Name: /dev/disk2
Cur Write: 16xCD / 2xDVD Sessions: 1
Max Write: 16xCD / 2xDVD Tracks: 1
Overwritable: 00:00:00 blocks: 0 / 0.00MB / 0.00MiB
Space Free: 00:00:00 blocks: 0 / 0.00MB / 0.00MiB
Space Used: 837:50:70 blocks: 3770320 / 7.72GB / 7.19GiB
Writability:

Given that it says "DVD-ROM", now I have to suspect that my (slightly old) Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II player can't play it not because the booktype is wrong, but because it just can't grok DVD+R DL media in general.

[TugBoat]

Good news that the 815 sees it as a DVD-ROM, that means the 108 must do bitsetting.
As for the defective area, it does sound like a layer-break problem. You don't mention how you authored the DVD. It sounds like some people are still having that problem with DVDSP and Toast. You can see that in the post I linked to. Another one;
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?128@4.Hi4Qa25NAJH.0@.689a1126
Still gonna wait :P

[Riot Nrrrd]

Good news that the 815 sees it as a DVD-ROM, that means the 108 must do bitsetting.
As for the defective area, it does sound like a layer-break problem. You don't mention how you authored the DVD. It sounds like some people are still having that problem with DVDSP and Toast.

I created it in Toast 6.0.7 as a normal DVD-ROM disc from the original VIDEO_TS and (empty) AUDIO_TS folders (I used an old SIGGRAPH Electronic Theater excerpts DVD as my crash test dummy - it was already All-Region and not encrypted; yet still over 4.4 GB, so it was the easiest thing I could test with). I didn't do anything special, and I didn't tell Toast to create a "layer-break" - I guess I thought (naïvely?) that since Toast 6.0.7 supports dual-layer DVD+R DL discs and dual-layer burners, that it would just go ahead and do the Right Thing. No? Their Web site claims it does:

http://www.roxio.com/en/support/toast/version_history6.jhtml

"Setting the layer break is performed automatically for Toast authored DVDs. Any previously authored VIDEO_TS content will be scanned for a suitable non-seamless cell boundary that results in the most equal distribution of data across layers."

[TugBoat]

Well....
In Toast, if you look just above the big red button....
you'll see a button named DVD-, it gives you a choice of CD, DVD, or DVD DL. Maybe you should try selecting DVD DL?
I dunno

[Riot Nrrrd]

Well....
In Toast, if you look just above the big red button....
you'll see a button named DVD-, it gives you a choice of CD, DVD, or DVD DL. Maybe you should try selecting DVD DL?

I'm stupid, but I'm not that stupid

(Yes, "DVD DL" was chosen.)

I'm going to try one last time, this time choosing "DVD-Video from VIDEO_TS folder" in the "Video" tab, and burning at 1x (heck, I have time, I'll go watch the World Series game while it burns ), and see what happens. If that fails, then I'll wait until my Verbatim 4x DVD+R DL media arrives ...

[Riot Nrrrd]

OK - what do you guys make of this?

I tried one last time ... tried to write another disc at 1x this time.

*Same exact thing happened* - i.e., it wrote, then half-way through the verification pass, it failed:

Sector 1904224 is unreadable. Verification failed.

This sector number where the failure occurred is *exactly the same sector number where it failed last time*.

That's just too weird to me - it either means the problem is happening at the layer break, or there's something else going on that is exactly deterministic, which makes it die at the exact same point every time.

Is there any chance that the problem is due to me telling Toast to do a "Write Disc" rather than a "Write Session"? Maybe dual-layer discs have to be treated differently for writing than "normal" single-layer discs in this regard?

[willrob]

Is it possible that the SIGGRAP DVD you're using as the test dummy has a problem? Try playing the original at the point where you're errors are occuring.

[TugBoat]

Well after looking around, I see three possible problems.
1) Did you set the drive as Master?
2) Other people are pointing fingers at the Pyros enclosure, and someone else here is having trouble with a 108 in an external FW case. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=241932
3) I'd list this as number One.
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?p=141076&highlight=#141076

I ended up having to run DVRFlash manually to get it to work.
(Interestingly, neither "drutil" nor Apple System Profiler show the correct firmware upgrade rev. afterwards - I wonder why not? "DVRFlash -vs" *does* show that it's now at 1.14, so I wonder why the Apple programs don't ... )

Has this changed? All the programs should identity the same version of Firmware. I'd go back and reflash, maybe using the Official firmware this time and see if that makes a difference.

And just to keep people from rehashing;
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?p=141269&highlight=#141269

[Riot Nrrrd]

Is it possible that the SIGGRAPH DVD you're using as the test dummy has a problem? Try playing the original at the point where your errors are occuring.

Good point - tried it, it plays fine. The individual VOB files that cause MPlayer OS X to seize up when I try to play them off of the burned disc also play fine when I play them off of my copy of the disc.

[Riot Nrrrd]

Well after looking around, I see three possible problems.
1) Did you set the drive as Master?

Yes

2) Other people are pointing fingers at the Pyro enclosure, and someone else here is having trouble with a 108 in an external FW case. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=241932

Aha ... interesting. Surely we can't be the only two people using external FireWire cases?!?

3) I'd list this as number One.
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?p=141076&highlight=#141076

I ended up having to run DVRFlash manually to get it to work.
(Interestingly, neither "drutil" nor Apple System Profiler show the correct firmware upgrade rev. afterwards - I wonder why not? "DVRFlash -vs" *does* show that it's now at 1.14, so I wonder why the Apple programs don't ... )

Has this changed? All the programs should identity the same version of Firmware. I'd go back and reflash, maybe using the Official firmware this time and see if that makes a difference.

I rebooted the Mac and now it shows as being 1.14:

[7:44] pb17:~/Desktop % drutil list
   Vendor    Product              Rev    Bus      SupportLevel
1  MATSHITA  DVD-R     UJ-815     X101  ATAPI     Apple Shipping
2  PIONEER   DVD-RW    DVR-108    1.14  FireWire  Vendor Supported

And just to keep people from rehashing;
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?p=141269&highlight=#141269

Sorry - I've been trying to post everything to both places (to RPC1 in case it was a firmware issue; over here in case it was Operator Stupidity ), and started slipping yesterday.

[chikanakan]

I suggest trying better media. Verbatim is the only DVD+R DL media that is truly supported by most DL drives. I've burned 20 or more discs on the Pioneer 108 drive now without any problems. Until drive makers update the firmware for new DL media, Verbatim is the way to go.

You can also get it for $8 a disc from sonystyle.com

[Riot Nrrrd]

I suggest trying better media. Verbatim is the only DVD+R DL media that is truly supported by most DL drives. I've burned 20 or more discs on the Pioneer 108 drive now without any problems. Until drive makers update the firmware for new DL media, Verbatim is the way to go.

I've got an order for 2 5-packs of Verbatim DL discs on the way.

The funny/odd thing to me is that Ritek/Ridata have a page on their Web site (Ritek USA) claiming that the Pioneer DVR-108 - as far back as firmware rev. 1.04 - is compatible with their DL media. See the chart at the bottom of:

http://www.ritekusa.com/ebproductdetail.asp?id=31

[TugBoat]

I think it may be Firewire related. The DVD media type doesn't explain the problem with iTunes, which is the same problem that the other FW user here is experiencing. Buffer Underrun. You could answer the media question quickly (and cheaper) by trying a normal DVD-R and seeing what happens. You also might want to go to the Pioneer Support Site and fill out a Tech Support form referencing Firewire, couldn't hurt 8)

[Riot Nrrrd]

I think it may be Firewire related. The DVD media type doesn't explain the problem with iTunes, which is the same problem that the other FW user here is experiencing. Buffer Underrun. You could answer the media question quickly (and cheaper) by trying a normal DVD-R and seeing what happens. You also might want to go to the Pioneer Support Site and fill out a Tech Support form referencing Firewire, couldn't hurt 8)

Good points

As another data point, I just burned an MP3 disc from iTunes, this time setting it to 16x instead of 32x/"Best" - and with the other disk off of the FireWire 800 bus (unlike my first attempt with iTunes, which was a convert-to-AIFF-on-the-fly audio Redbook CD-R disc burn attempt, and my RAID1 still on the FireWire 800 bus). It burned perfectly. (My first successful burn with this Pioneer DVR-108!)

After I get home from work, I'll try some other CD-R combinations - e.g., burning an MP3 disc at 32x/"Best", burning an Audio Redbook convert-on-the-fly disc at 16x, and so on - try and get a matrix of what works/what doesn't.

And yes - I'll try a DVD-R disc as well, I think I've still got a few DVD2oneX backups lying around to use

Hopefully all of this will be worth it - i.e. that I can ultimately generate a matrix of what works and what doesn't work (or "isn't likely to work") with a FireWire-connected Pioneer DVR-108.

[Riot Nrrrd]

After I get home from work, I'll try some other CD-R combinations - e.g., burning an MP3 disc at 32x/"Best", burning an Audio Redbook convert-on-the-fly disc at 16x, and so on - try and get a matrix of what works/what doesn't.

Couldn't resist trying one more before I left - burned an Audio Redbook CD-R (converted on the fly from MP3's) at 32x - it also burned perfectly.

I think a DVD-R test will be really interesting at this point, given that - with the other FireWire 800 device disconnected, that is - I'm batting 1.000 with MP3/Audio CD-R's, and .000 with DVD+R DL's.

[TugBoat]

Just wondering if you rebooted the machine directly after updating the firmware or before/after making $20 worth of coasters :P

[Riot Nrrrd]

Just wondering if you rebooted the machine directly after updating the firmware or before/after making $20 worth of coasters :P

Rebooted it later on, after installing the last Security Update patch from Apple. The firmware updater said the firmware was at 1.14 - just that "drutil" and Apple System Profiler didn't. I suspect that information was cached somewhere - because obviously it *had* changed.

[Riot Nrrrd]

Success!!!

I got my order of Verbatim DVD+R DL 4x media in ... proceeded to do a test burn (once more having left my RAID1 enclosure off of the FireWire 800 bus, just in case) and ... it worked!!!

And ... even better ... the disc worked in my "old" Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II DVD player to boot! Yahoo!

I also tried a burn of a DVD-R image with Memorex 4x DVD-R media ... that worked too!!!

So, the moral of the story seems to be - if you have a DVR-108 in an external FireWire enclosure, (a) keep all other devices off of the FireWire bus the burner sits on; and (b) use only "good"/known-to-work media (i.e. Verbatim in the DVR-108's case) and don't buy not-known-to-work media (i.e. like the Ritek/Ridata 2.4x DVD+R DL media I wasted $32 on!!!)

Maybe in retrospect this sounds like "Common Sense" to most but it bears repeating - so no one else ends up with $32 worth in coasters like I did

[the future]

Good to hear it did work out after all! Now I will very probably get an 108 as well!

[Macnewbie]

Thanks for posting your results.

[Riot Nrrrd]

Good to hear it did work out after all! Now I will very probably get an 108 as well!

Looks like all you have to do to get a DVR-108 now is buy a new G5!

http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-10-26#3108

Strange that it's labelled "DVR-108AA"; even stranger that Apple has tried to camouflage it by identifying it as a "Pioneer 117" ... grrrr

[galactica]

I have a DVR-108 and will swear by the thing [note not at it]
perhaps the best drive i have had to date.

just for those who read this and say wow this drive must suck

[brett]

ditto galactica -- i have had a successful 4x 7.8gb DL burn (verbatim) and a mtr 4.2gb dvd rip that was 5 damn minutes and change -- boo-yeah!, so to speak.

[TugBoat]

Better late than....
Scroll down to the bottom and see what they say about the Ritek DL media.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/162/7
Note the post date on the review.