Do you know Linux?

[Faustus]

Ok so I got a problem, I have several projects over the last year that would have been a go if only I knew linux.

Now I've tried to learn, and I hardly consider myself stupid. My PC background starts with DOS 6.22 sans Windows 3.1. Move into 3.1. Heavy windows 95 (meaning I trained for its release with a Beta copy of the MS course material) on into Windows XP.

I'm not a stranger to a command line... so why can't I figure out this flubbing OS? I think the problem is I don't even have a foundation there. I can change dirs, and maybe copy of files. I can usually manage to install stuff as long as I dont have to compile it, but how do I uninstall something? See what I mean?

So my question to any Linuxy people out there is, where did you start? What would you suggest?

[bazooka]

I started with Redhad 9 and then moved into Fedora Core.

I have tried other distros but prefer Fedora.

I forgo the command line in favor of a gui.

Fedora has lots of server capabilities as well.

[Faustus]

Yes I have the latest DVD version of Fedora Core. Was thinking about installing it. I really don't think just a distro is gonna make a ton of difference for me though.

A little more background:
My first attempt was many moons ago (1997ish) with a copy of Slackware Linux (about the only version you could find at the time) and lasted about 24 hours. There was so little help out there for the OS it was a doomed idea.

Since thing I've breifly played with Mandrake, and tried to install (i THINK) Gentoo.

I guess my problem is I don't understand how you can hop into something so complicated where learning how to do something helps you often time NOWHERE else in the OS and ever feel comforable.

I tried to install Quake 3 on SUSE, wouldn't work. I once installed some MP3 player software only to find out it was already on my machine. Also it seemed to be installed ONTO my DESKTOP and I couldn't figure out how to remove it.

I can use Windows, DOS, All sorts of version of the Mac OS, and even a little OS/2. But I can't seem to get a foundation with Linux that would allow me to run it on a daily basis.

[bazooka]

I had to have classes on it, before I started to understand it.

I am still learning my way around it.

[Garibaldi]

I started with Redhad 9 and then moved into Fedora Core.

I have tried other distros but prefer Fedora.

I forgo the command line in favor of a gui.

Fedora has lots of server capabilities as well.

Bazooka, have you tried Slackware?

To anyone who wants to get started with linux:
I am currently using Topologilinux 5:
www.topologilinux.com
which is based completely off of Slacware 10.0. It comes with all the major windowmakers like XFCE, KDE, Gnome, Fvwm, WindowMaker, FluxBox, ect. It DOES NOT require partitioning, it installs to an image file on your NTSF or FAT 32 partition. In this way you can use linux quite easily- its not an emulator or something, you actually have the dual boot. Plus, installing most packages is pretty easy, using Kpackage.
I can give you more info if you want, you might also want to look here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158980&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Garibaldi

[bazooka]

I haven't tried slackware yet.

[stiltman]

I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I do enough to get most things done. I learned most everything via google, started with altavista back then. I also found it very handy to learn by having problems which happens all the time.

[disturbed1]

I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I do enough to get most things done. I learned most everything via google, started with altavista back then. I also found it very handy to learn by having problems which happens all the time.

That's how I've learned almost every thing.

I did purchase a couple of Linux books, taught me squat compared to some of the Linux sites, and forums out there.

Same thing with windows. Most of my windows experience came from constantly breaking a Windows 95 install and spending hours on the phone with tech support.

It was funny, just recently I did a full reinstall of Windows XP for a neighbor. The first thing I was greeted with after the very first boot was no less than 32 popup windows. Thought WOW, OK, so I disabled automatic updates and background transfer services, restarted the computer, and went to windows update. Wasn't allowed to run update until I turned those two services back on.

Long story short, I switched over to my Linux system to download Service pack 2, so I could burn it on CD to fix the Windows system. My neighbor saw my Linux setup, and was like wow, asked if he could have that on his computer. He really liked the Gnome interface. Whole install of Ubantu Linux took less than 30 minutes to complete.

Since those 2 weeks ago, I've installed 17 Linux systems, and made a few people's lives so much easier and secure.

[Faustus]

Ok then an easy question. Where are the applications installed on a Linux system? By default I mean.

[disturbed1]

depending on your distro........... but usually they are in /usr/bin. For the executable. /etc for config files, /usr/lib for the dll like files. Some programs may get installed to the /opt folder or /usr/share. KDE programs usually go into the /opt/ folder.

Just like windows, though, you can't go deleting files, you have to use an uninstall program.

Which package management do you have? RPM, DEB, TGZ? You can run the installation utility to remove packages. For slackware it's
$>pkg -rm xyzapp.tgz
to remove the app named xyzapp.tgz. I don't mess around with any RPM based distros, I find that most of these can't meet my needs. These are usually noob based distro's with plenty M$ Windows like control pannels. For DEB, you can synaptic package manager, or do a

$>man dpkg

to get the manual on the debian package management system. even

$>man rpm

could be helpfull for those rpm based distros.

Or if you compiled and installed the package
$>make clean

from a terminal in the source folder. Always a good idea to keep your source files around so you can uninstall them. Though I usually use checkinstall on slackware to create slackware packages, or fakeroot on debian to make DEB packages.

You also need to be root, or use su or sudo to uninstall, or install packages.

[Faustus]

Which distro? Well right now I'm playing around on my mac at work so Yellow Dog.

At this rate its gonna take the entire night to just update my install...wow its moving slow.

[disturbed1]

Yellow Dog is an RPM based distro.

A quick google search for Yellow Dog Linux, brought me to there web page. There is a "SUPPORT" link on the front page, which will then take you to many support pages, including a FAQ section, and a HOW TO section. Both of which cover installing, updating, and removing packages. It includes howto's with the CLI of RPM, their utility, and also online updates with YUM.

I'd recomend reading some documentation on your distrobution.

[Faustus]

yeah YUM is whats running right now.

I understand what an RPM is on a conceptual level. But what does "CLI of RPM" mean?

[disturbed1]

Command Line Interface Red Hat Package Management. Allows you to use RPM in a command terminal. Try

$>rpm -help
or
$>man rpm

If yum is taking forever, it could be that you're connected to a slow server, or your current connection (your work's connection) is slow(er). Do a speed test to make sure everything is ok with the connection

http://www.dfw.speakeasy.net

If your connection is as fast as it's suposed to be, then try pointing yum to a different server. There is usually more than one mirror. I find that some of the .nl sites are reasonalby fast compared to most of the US sites. Many of the US sites are just over used.

If Oregonstate.edu is a mirror for Yellow Dog, they are pretty fast for a US site. Ibiblio is unreliable, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes unreachable. Ibibilio seems to be one of the more popular Linux mirrors here in the us.

The server list should be in you config file for yum.

[Faustus]

Actually its finally done updating.

So there is no GUI for RPMs? I'm trying to figure out how to get and install an FTP program (I dispise command line ftp)

And even better yet, I downloaded Firefox, extracted the Firefox-installer folder and have zero clue what to do with it.

[disturbed1]

Inside the Firefox folder there is a readme file, also when you download Firefox, on the same page for the download link, there is also an install instructions link.

Firefox can be installed for system wide access, or run as a standalone from inside the extracted folder.

There are GUIs for RPM, usually the distro will make a custom one. Mandrake, Suse, Fedora, and Red Hat all have one, I'm sure Yellow Dog would too.

If you are able to use DOS and Windows 3.1/95, Linux should be an obsolute breeze for you. The administration somewhat reminds me of 3.1, because of the amount of file configuration and spec inputing you have to do. Installing hardware in windows 3.1 was a pure bitch unlike with Linux, which has most of the driver software already built in, and usuable as modules. With your DOS background, you should already know that typing any command followed by -? or -help will give you a brief explanation of how to use the program.

A great feature of Linux is the man pages. Give them a try.

[Faustus]

heh See, a few hours in and I'm already annoying.

My problem is I find documentation to be about on the level of stareing at a blank page.

I've always learned by doing.

When I got my first PC I drove my one PC using friend insane with phone calls for a month striaght. A month after that I was helping him with his problems.

Anyway I could have sworn I didn't see a readme with firefox but after my lunch break I'll look again. I hope this doesn't involve compiling anything.

[disturbed1]

Nope, no compiling.

Compiling a program is very easy. 3 steps -

$>./configure

$>make

$>make install

That's it. As long as those who made your distro included the basic tools, most programs compile without a problem. Inside most source archives, and on the program's page there are always a list of depends that each program needs to have installed. Also, when you run the configure program, it looks for these files, and errors out, with a message of why the configure failed, and generates a log file for you to read. Same with Make, and Make install. So compiling is documented in no less than 4 places for each of the 3 steps.

I believe for Firefox it's something like

$>./firefox-installer

or
$>sh firefox-installer.sh

I do know there is a program named xxxxx-installer that gets extracted with the x86 version. Don't know if it's different with the PPC version or not.

I don't use Firefox though. Has a problem with resolving hosts, and a few other minor inconviences for me. I like Opera, always have since version 1.x of it. My girlfriend likes Firefox, so I had to install it for her.

Isn't Darwin Unix based? Just wondering why you wouldn't (or have you?) tried Apple's own Unix flavor for the PPC.

[disturbed1]

http://fr.rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/Yellow_Dog_Freshrpms.html

A list of many programs for yellow dog. Just download any rpm to your home directory.

Open a terminal window there, then gain root priv.'s and type

$>rpm -i xxx.rpm

to install xxx.rpm program. Cant' get much easier than that

[Faustus]

groovy, thanks for the help disturbed.

Yeah apple is darwin based, but I rarely delve into anything unixy on it. Apple OSs run so great if you don't jack with 'em so I usually let it all stay nice and hidden in the background.

Thats why I installed Yellow dog on another partition so I can crash it all I want.

[Faustus]

Well firefox will not install I get this message

./firefox-installer: line 55: ./firefox-installer-bin: cannot execute binary file

My friend on aim says I should download and compile it. But I can't do that until tomorrow so I guess I"m done for the day.

[bazooka]

Fedora has a gui for an updater.

I try to stay away from the command line as much as possible.

In Fedora, it is called up2date.

[Faustus]

Fedora has a gui for an updater.

I try to stay away from the command line as much as possible.

In Fedora, it is called up2date.

Fedora no run on a mac.

[bazooka]

It would if you run an emulator.

[Faustus]

Its my work Mac, not fast enough to run VPC on it.

[disturbed1]

Well firefox will not install I get this message

./firefox-installer: line 55: ./firefox-installer-bin: cannot execute binary file

My friend on aim says I should download and compile it. But I can't do that until tomorrow so I guess I"m done for the day.

You have to be root to install anything.

There is a Yellow Dog Firefox RPM at the website I listed, try that one out.

[ViRaL1]

[Faustus]

Yeah I'm root when I tried to install it. I'm not that clueless.

Also tried it as a my user using Sudo under a friends command. Same deal. I'll try the RPMy goodness.

[Faustus]

edit: fliggered it out, ignore my rambling. The better question is why isn't there a GUI for RPMs?

Ok so now I have the RPM, silly me thought I would just click on it and it would install. Instead it ask what to open it with? *sigh*

[bazooka]

Open it in the terminal.