Music Industry chases after dentists offices now

[gitreel]

Just when I think they can't sink any lower.........
http://calgary.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ca_dentists20030919
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/07/23/dentist_music040723.html

Music industry drills dentists for royalties
Last Updated Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:50:29 EDT
VANCOUVER - The tranquil music that wafts through many dental offices to soothe patients and mask the sounds of the drill may soon be silenced. The music industry is putting the bite on dentists – demanding that they pay for the right to play it.

The Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada, which collects royalties for musicians, has targeted dental offices in its latest campaign. The group is asking them to cough up a yearly fee if they use copyrighted music to entertain patients.

The fee, a minimum charge of $100, has enraged some dentists.

"I just feel it's a money grab," said Vancouver dentist Kerstin Conn, who recently received a letter from SOCAN at her office. "We paid for our CD and we're using it to listen to, and half the time my patients ... don't even hear the music."

Bruce Wilde, licensing manager for SOCAN, said people can listen to CDs for personal enjoyment but infringe copyright if they play them for other purposes.

"The distinction is that the music is not their property," he said. "And if it's being used in a public fashion or any kind of commercial fashion, then [musicians] deserve to be compensated for its use."

SOCAN has battled for years to get commercial and retail outlets to pay for the use of copyrighted music. Under legislation, the music played in coffee shops, clothing stores, lounges, elevators – even radio tunes that people hear on the telephone while on hold – is fair game.

The copyright laws do offer some wiggle room, one legal expert said. "The gray area, I think, is where it's overheard inadvertently," said Robert Howell, a professor at the University of Victoria Law School, "when it is really intended to be private but it is overheard inadvertently by a customer."

SOCAN said it has successfully collected the fees so far, but if someone refuses to pay, it could sue for copyright infringement. Things rarely go that far, the group said.

Conn said she intends to keep playing CDs in her Vancouver office – at least for now. "Well, no, I'm not going to turn off the music. It's wrong."

Written by CBC News Online staff

[The village idiot]

Next will be the elevator companies.

greed, pure simple greed

[Tommyknocker]

Next will be the elevator companies.

greed, pure simple greed

Could someone do me a favor and put a witch hunter's hat over the present president of the RIAA, and then post it? This witch hunt has gone on far too long.

[Headbanger's Ball]

I swear I saw this story pop up last year (or whenever the lawsuits started.) Thought is was dumb then & dumber now.

[adam]

TommyKnocker, this is in Canada. RIAA is only in America.

I think this is just one of those areas where the industry needs to lay off. This kind of incidental use by people who happen to hear other's music doesn't hurt the label. If anything its advertising. If you want to hear that song/album again its not like you're gonna make another dentist's appointment, you're going to go out and buy it!

These types of things have even greater impact then one might think. When you start charging royalties for the music that is played in offices, elevators, restaraunts etc... then that makes the purchasing of that music a business expense for the proprietor. So naturally they deduct it from their income taxes, which means less taxes for the government, which means higher tax rates for everybody. If you think about how many industries would be effected if these royalty costs were strictly enforced, that could have a substantial effect on the economy. Canada already has high enough taxes as it is.

[iooi]

If anything its advertising. If you want to hear that song/album again its not like you're gonna make another dentist's appointment, you're going to go out and buy it!

Once again the music industry misses a excellent chance to push its products. Maybe the dentists should counter claim on the grounds they are boosting the music industries profits by advertising for them......

Personally i could not remember anything while sat in that chair with them fingers etc in your mouth....all i am doing is concentrating on getting out as quick as possible...

[Rookie64]

If anything its advertising. If you want to hear that song/album again its not like you're gonna make another dentist's appointment, you're going to go out and buy it!

Once again the music industry misses a excellent chance to push its products. Maybe the dentists should counter claim on the grounds they are boosting the music industries profits by advertising for them......

Personally i could not remember anything while sat in that chair with them fingers etc in your mouth....all i am doing is concentrating on getting out as quick as possible...

I agree that the music is furthest from my mind while in the chair, though personally, dentists don't bother me - it's the time spent in the waiting room that makes me cringe.
Mine will either have a radio turned on or the TV (which is usually a soap opera) - I can tell ya I have no interest in anything they're entertaining ( ) me with - it's hard to pay much attention anyway while someone's kid is running around the room.

How 'bout those magazines they have laid out for you to read or browse - do publishers get royalties too

Anyway, this leads me to ask - what about while you're on vacation somewhere and you're shooting home videos of your family or friends, and there happens to be music playing in the background from the place you're at...do your home movies become illegal at that point?
Even if you have no clue what the song is or that just a portion gets picked up - does that mean you can't show any friends your vacation trip or you have to destroy your home movies?


It still puzzles me that you can legally store, distribute and charge a fee (a large one at that) for any part of any copyrighted movie as long as you review or comment on it on a web site....even advertise your site on the radio (with no royalties paid to the copyright holders).

You can also stream and broadcast your own mp3s on internet radio...and that it's perfectly OK to play anything you want as long as no one knows your playlist ahead of time

What really is the difference in that with the music played in public places -it's not like they're taking requests.

I've never been sold on anything I heard in public before - only places I do remember the music I heard was at public pools, jukeboxes at restaurants, nightclubs, rollerskating rinks, amusement parks and during recess in elementary school, where we were either allowed to bring in our own records or play the ones the teacher had.

In sociology class and in religion class in high school, we would listen to albums and discuss the music in class (it was required for the class) - also watched movies (sometimes they were movies the *priest*/teacher recorded on his VCR at home off of HBO with HBO's logo on the recording )

Realistically, it is impossible to avoid copyright infringement completely - regardless of what any law says.
Trust me, there isn't a living soul in this country that hasn't violated copyright laws at least once in their lifetime.

Fair use or not - you can't avoid it completely in our modern world, and with technology changing around us, it's only going to be all the more unavoidable.

[Madz]

"Here's the bill for your root canal Mr. Smith. It also includes a surcharge for the background music!"

[hudsonf]

Usually the music you hear at places like doctor offices and elevators is the type of music I don't like. They should pay me for having to listen to it. I understand they want to be compensated for their work but this is going a little to far. In time your not going to be able to hum or whistle a tune without breaking the law.

[fritzi93]

Why don't they just play old re-releases of classical music? The kind you find in the bargain bins, like Andre Previn or Eugene Ormandy conducting various orchestras in the '50s? They're remastered and fairly acceptable quality. Almost certainly out of copyright, not sure anymore(?) Let 'em try to sue for that.

As a side benefit, the unwashed masses might get a little culture. And I wouldn't have elevator music inflicted on me. Muzak to my ears...

[freestyler]

The Master Blaster solution

[BJ_M]

then they should not play music in cd stores -- though it helps sell cd's //

there is no difference between that and dentists

[painkiller]

My dentist recently installed one of the new satellite radios (Sirius, ??). And she really loves it.

Most of her assistants do, too.

Can't wait to hear what the RIAA says about THAT.

Since they can't seem to get their heads out of the ..... clouds, maybe they should take permanent residence on the moon.

:P

[iooi]

Can just see this happening in the dentist...
Dentist, Right sir and what do you do ?
Man in chair, Ah yes i work for the canadian music law enforcers...
Dentist, Right nurse...Large blunt needle plz...Now sir this will hurt a lot..... Second thoughts forget the needle just pass the blunt drill......

[Marvingj]

Eventually they charge super market music as a special tax.

[BJ_M]

supermarket /mall music, lobbys, eleveator music and the like are ussually programmed music by companies such as CHUM and others ..

with the monthly charge is included music rights ...

[ViRaL1]

Pretty much the same thing here. If a business is getting a satellite feed, MOST times, they're actually paying a business rate and a business contract which SHOULD protect them from this kind of harassment. It's agreed that the media is being sent for an audience (customers included) and not just personal private listening. CDs on the other hand are not intended for this use. Makes me wonder though...what about jukeboxes?...what about club DJ's?

If the RIAA goes after them...
...where's my gun?

[BJ_M]

Pretty much the same thing here. If a business is getting a satellite feed, MOST times, they're actually paying a business rate and a business contract which SHOULD protect them from this kind of harassment. It's agreed that the media is being sent for an audience (customers included) and not just personal private listening. CDs on the other hand are not intended for this use. Makes me wonder though...what about jukeboxes?...what about club DJ's?

If the RIAA goes after them...
...where's my gun?

clubs pay an annual fee - which covers everything ..


jukebox's are covered also under a music for pay agreement .

there is no grey area there .

[ViRaL1]

Any idea how the music for pay agreement works? I know the patrons put money into the jukebox and that goes to the owner. Do the recording companies get their cut out of annual state licensing fees or elsewhere?

[Rookie64]

Any idea how the music for pay agreement works? I know the patrons put money into the jukebox and that goes to the owner. Do the recording companies get their cut out of annual state licensing fees or elsewhere?

Permission is required from the music publisher when songs are played in public - such as on the radio, television, at businesses, in concerts or at clubs.
For example, radio stations must pay the music publisher that owns a particular song in order to play it on the air. The fees for these uses are referred to as performance royalties. Generally, radio stations, clubs and other places that play music regularly obtain blanket licenses instead of getting permission and paying the fee each time they play a song.
The licenses are granted by performing rights societies such as BMI and ASCAP who execute the agreements, collect the fees and monitor performances on behalf of music publishers

-- Attorney Richard Stim, author of Music Law.


That's the legal way of doing it, but I know first hand that many places do not have permission nor pay performance royalties - not saying that it's OK, but that a lot have been getting away with it for decades.

I still stand by what I say about not being able to avoid all copyright infringments - there are times you record events and can't help that music is being picked up in the background. The person doing the recording has no control over that...and paying royalties for things like a memorial service is an atrocity, IMO.

I also firmly believe the way the system is made up, that scam artists can get around copyright by abusing fair use, while the innocent continue to pay a price.


I thought some of the comments posted here were kind of funny -
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/13405

like this one from boggieman 8)

Why can't they just leave people alone? One day they may need to go see one of these dentists....hopefully these dentists will have no mercy.........