Need a little legal help....

[shoozleboy]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Anyhow, when he went there, the only way they were allowed to get any pictures or autographs of the NFL players, was to put money into an account and then use that money to purchase the pictures and autographs while at camp.

Now that camp is over, and her son has come home, his wallet was a little short of the cash that he left with. It appears that he still had $120 left in this account that they had to set up and they will not give the money back to the kid. They are telling him that he has to purchase some merchandise online - that is how they 'give back' the money.

Now I'm no attorney, but it seems to me that something smells rotten in the fish market....

What is the word or term that is used for this type of ....ahem...cough, cough....robbery?

I don't know if there is a federal law or a state law (Maryland in this case) that says this is a no-no.... Can any of the properly schooled users here help with a little information on this? Can they leagally make him buy something?

Thanks.

[Tommyknocker]

Did anyone sign anything saying they would put any money into an account like this? Also, you may not have ravens where you hail from, but in America, ravens are notorious thieves.

[adam]

Its an account. Unless he signed any form of contract stating that he cannot receive cash reimbursements for any remaining balance, he is entitled to the money. Actually, if he is under 18 he lacks the capacity to contract and the signature would have had to come from his parent or guardian.

If his parent or guardian did sign such or contract (the language could be in the initial documentation they received in signing up for the camp) then he is out of luck. There is nothing illegal about refusing to pay out cash balances from an account, as long as the party agreed to that initially. Its like a store refusing to refund your money for a gift certificate.

[Doramius]

It depends on the contract signed and state laws. It's a Baltimore team so they probably know the state laws. You might want to read what was signed in accordance to setting up the account.

There are places that do such a thing, it's what they called a fixed crowd. Now you may have heard the term, but may be wondering how it applies to this instance. It's basically a way to keep money in with a particular vendor. The same thing as if you bought a shirt from a store. Once you purchased the shirt, you became a fixed customer through that product. If you return the shirt, the store can offer a "store credit" legally, and hold onto your cash.

It sounds like the camp has an account set up to purchase their merchandise, so they can take ahold of the money. You are then given a "vendor credit" of the same amount. That is the item you purchased. You exchange a portion of your credit for merchandise. If you don't use all of it or within a certain period of time, it almost becomes like a donation to the vendor. There are other reasons why they do this and there is some security reasons behind it, but the way I stated is the primary force behind it. They are trying to find a way to make money without having to give it up.

Check out what you can though. Sometimes a loophole might allow you to have your money back, or they can offer the money back, but you're not asking the right people or department. You can't always make a house payment at the same place you send your auto payment.

[shoozleboy]

I don't know if he signed anything - I just caught his grandmother (whom I work with) before she left for the day. She's going to find out that tonight when she sees him.

I'll let you know what she finds out, tomorrow.

Thanks.

[Capmaster]

You mean you have something against a little larceny by pro football players and teams? What are they supposed to buy their 'roids with if they can't fleece a few unsuspecting families?

[Tommyknocker]

You mean you have something against a little larceny by pro football players and teams? What are they supposed to buy their 'roids with if they can't fleece a few unsuspecting families?

Lucrative TV contracts, commercials, sportswear bearing the teams' logos, the list goes on and on...

[Doramius]

You mean you have something against a little larceny by pro football players and teams? What are they supposed to buy their 'roids with if they can't fleece a few unsuspecting families?

Lucrative TV contracts, commercials, sportswear bearing the teams' logos, the list goes on and on...

The most important one is "Team Sponsored Youth Football Camps".

[shoozleboy]

The most important one is "Team Sponsored Youth Football Camps".

Yepper - sure seems that way to them.....

This whole thing came up in a discussion in the lunch room today... I was knocked down by the whole "We paid $900 for him to go to this camp and yeah, he got to meet a couple of football players while working out - but they still charged for their autographs and to even take a picture of them!"

Then the story of the $120 that they refused to give back to him.

If it's not illegal, it's certainly immoral.

[Doramius]

When you're in a country where laws have very little to do with morals, and nobody to willing to back up laws that are moralistic, you end up dealing with a lot of crooks. I could go further into it, but it would fit better under the Politik forums on the other site.

[fmctm1sw]

I'm going to link this to the Pittsburgh Steelers message board. They'll have an absolute field day with this...

The ratbirds are well known as thieves in my neck of the woods. It seems they regularly have someone in jail and they have a potential murder suspect on their defense. And don't get me started on a NHL hockey team around that area that routinely blocked area codes to make sure they didn't wind up with more Pittsburgh Penguin fans in their barn than their own fans. Sad...

[pacmania_2001]

Thats a joke, charging them for the training camp then charging them again for autographs.

[Hardcoreruss]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

[Tommyknocker]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

He must be an immigrant.

[VCDHunter]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

He must be an immigrant.

Ain't you all immigrants ?

[Tommyknocker]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

He must be an immigrant.

Ain't you all immigrants ?

No, late American arrivals like Mikhail Baryshnikov, Bob Hope, Martina Navritolova, etc. are or were immigrants. The majority of us are descended from immigrants. The rest are descendants of those who were already here when they arrived.

[handyguy]

Show us a copy of the contract.

[shoozleboy]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

He must be an immigrant.

ummm...... negative!

But I do know that futball or football has been around a lot longer than American football.... therefore, it is considered the "real" football.

[flaninacupboard]

I have a friend whose son went away to a Football camp that was put on by some players from the Baltimore Ravens (American football, not the real football).

Finally, an American who realises what proper football is.

He must be an immigrant.

ummm...... negative!

But I do know that futball or football has been around a lot longer than American football.... therefore, it is considered the "real" football.

If it wasn't the real version it wouldn't have the prefix "American"

[Doramius]

If you do some google history searches you can find that American footbal was originally called Kick Ball, (and also Pickle Ball). A term that's now used for the sport of kicking a 10" dia. rubber ball in a baseball layout. Kick Ball initially was an American combination of Soccer and Rugby as a military exercise program that was later adopted by colleges and amature leagues. It didn't become real popular until it became a part of University Sports curriculums. President Nixon made the Super Bowl very popular, though it's popularity was growing regardless. Baseball was also invented after Soccer, as baseball was created during the American Civil War. Pickle Ball is also now a sport in which an American Football is used on a basketball court.

Yeah Google! Official Search Engine Of Videohelp.com's Post Whores

[flaninacupboard]

Rounders (sort of)
The American game of baseball is derived from the British rounders, with which the name baseball had been associated in England a long time ago. In fact baseball and rounders had been mentioned by name in a book in the mid-18th century, suggesting that they was some difference between them. Even Jane Austen refers to one of her heroines playing "base-ball". In the US in the early 18th century there were similar games of "bat and ball", one of which was called "baste", and by the early 19th century the game was very popular, with two distinct versions of the game existed - yet all were very similar to rounders.

However, some purists didn't accept these origins, believing instead that it was devised entirely by Abner Doubleday. Doubleday was a hero of the Civil War and may well have acquired the role of "inventor" of the game as a means of dissociating the American version of the game from its true English roots. His name crops up in connection with the game from around the 1860s, although it was 1904 before he was officially and conveniently recognised as its inventor (curiously, after he had died no evidence was found in his diaries of any association with the game).

So just who did "invent" baseball? The answer is, probably, nobody. Instead, it almost certainly evolved through various rule revisions from the English game. That said, Alexander Cartwright and Daniel Adams may have been the first to adopt the first big revision of the rules in the US (although even that claim is disputed by some) in the mid-19th century, some years before Doubleday is supposed to have "invented" the game.

http://www.miketodd.net/lexicon/lex_b.htm

[flaninacupboard]

from the same site:

Billion
Milliard
The US billion is 1,000,000,000 whereas in the UK it is 1,000,000,000,000. This can sometimes lead to confusion, and the UK is generally tending to use billion in the US sense, at least in the media. The reason that the systems are different is based on the way that the number of zeros is counted - basically, the US uses the old French system of counting the number of groups of three zeros after the first 1,000 whereas the British system just counts the number of millions. For a more detailed explanation, and a full table of the differences, look at The Billion and beyond

I expect that to change soon then, just to spite the french some more

[Capmaster]

from the same site:

Billion
Milliard
The US billion is 1,000,000,000 whereas in the UK it is 1,000,000,000,000. This can sometimes lead to confusion, and the UK is generally tending to use billion in the US sense, at least in the media. The reason that the systems are different is based on the way that the number of zeros is counted - basically, the US uses the old French system of counting the number of groups of three zeros after the first 1,000 whereas the British system just counts the number of millions. For a more detailed explanation, and a full table of the differences, look at The Billion and beyond

I expect that to change soon then, just to spite the french some more

As much as I would like to see us ditch anything French, this system is so deeply-rooted it'll be around for a long time.

Not too long ago there was a nationwide concerted effort to switch to the metric system, with our own government as the main cheerleader.

The result: Now we use inches, miles, pounds, gallons, feet, yards, etc. Whereas before the effort we were using inches, miles, pounds, gallons, feet, yards, etc.

[flaninacupboard]

i remember watching with great amusement a TV show called scrapheap challenge (you have an inferior ripoff show called "junkyard wars" because "scrapheap challenge" was too intellectual for the american audience :P ) when they allowed an american team to compete. they were young and trendy engineers, and caluclated things in cubic decimeters! like there's something wrong with litres or millilitres?
That's the thing i like with the decimal system, it's piss easy to convert between units. i know that a half litre of water will weigh 500grams. if i get a tank thats 8cm by 3cm and slowly fill it with water i know at 1cm high there'll be 24 grams of water. how many ounces of water would you have if the tank was eight inches by three inches and filled an inch high with water?

if i have a substance that's 1.5g/ml, what's the weight of a box 10cmx8cmx12cm?

[Doramius]

Rounders (sort of)
The American game of baseball is derived from the British rounders, with which the name baseball had been associated in England a long time ago. In fact baseball and rounders had been mentioned by name in a book in the mid-18th century, suggesting that they was some difference between them. Even Jane Austen refers to one of her heroines playing "base-ball". In the US in the early 18th century there were similar games of "bat and ball", one of which was called "baste", and by the early 19th century the game was very popular, with two distinct versions of the game existed - yet all were very similar to rounders.

However, some purists didn't accept these origins, believing instead that it was devised entirely by Abner Doubleday. Doubleday was a hero of the Civil War and may well have acquired the role of "inventor" of the game as a means of dissociating the American version of the game from its true English roots. His name crops up in connection with the game from around the 1860s, although it was 1904 before he was officially and conveniently recognised as its inventor (curiously, after he had died no evidence was found in his diaries of any association with the game).

So just who did "invent" baseball? The answer is, probably, nobody. Instead, it almost certainly evolved through various rule revisions from the English game. That said, Alexander Cartwright and Daniel Adams may have been the first to adopt the first big revision of the rules in the US (although even that claim is disputed by some) in the mid-19th century, some years before Doubleday is supposed to have "invented" the game.

http://www.miketodd.net/lexicon/lex_b.htm

I noticed the same information, but I was looking in the American start. I think Cricket is also a derivative of rounders, too. Is it not?

[flaninacupboard]

Cricket had its origins in AD 700
It was widely played in the 1300's
It was banned in the 15th century.
Baseball is derived from cricket and rounders.
Appeared in the 1900 Olympics. Britain won, France got silver.
USA vs. Canada test match (1846) was the first International Sport ever played in any sport.
Cricket comes form the French "Criquet".
The most famous international series, is the "Ashes", between England and Australia.
The official cricket magazine is the Wisden.
The Marylebone Cricket Club (M.C.C.) first published its rules in 1788.
There were only two stumps in old cricket.
Underarm bowling was allowed in old cricket
Sir Don Bradman (1908-2001) Aus, is still considered the best batsman ever.
He has a impassable average of 99.94.
In the old days 5 runs were scored in place of today's 6.
One Day cricket made its appearance in in 1961
All countries in the world have a cricket presence.
It is watched by almost a billion people.

http://cricketlearn.tripod.com/eng/diduknow26.htm

[Capmaster]

That's the thing i like with the decimal system, it's piss easy to convert between units. i know that a half litre of water will weigh 500grams.

We're still using a system that's called ..aahem ....the "English" system of measure.

[flaninacupboard]

this from the nation that threw off the "bonds" of it's past to become an independent and free thinking society...?

ok

[Doramius]

I wonder if 'Transexual Neo-Nazi Eskimos that practice same sex polygamatic anal incest' can be found somewhere on the internet? If it can, we'll have to add the link somewhere in the OT forum with a discussion thread.

'Transexual Neo-Nazi Eskimos that practice same sex Polygamatic Anal Incest' - There's a statement to exercise your tongue with.

[Capmaster]

this from the nation that threw off the "bonds" of it's past to become an independent and free thinking society...?

ok

We don't pay you kipper-snappers colonist taxes anymore, do we?