How Important Is File Verification?

[Nuke1096]

It seems like every disc I create fails file verification lately, just how important is it? Especially for DVD-Video Discs.

I have a Pioneer DVR-A05 with the latest Firmware and I'm using RITEKG04 Media, and I'm even burning at 2x but it doesnt seem to matter. I use Nero as my burning software and have tried multiple batches of Ritek media as well with similar results.

I went with Ritek based on the reviews on this site, but I'm wondering how many of those reviewers actually got 90% or higher file verification with these discs, in fact I'm wondering how many people use file verification at all. Anybody have any suggestions? What can I possibly be doing wrong here?

[Lobe]

all the Ritek's I've used have verified 100%. Anytime media has failed verification on me I can easily find where it went bad(usually near the end) just by trying to view or access that area. And if it fails it is bad(unless you moved or deleted files it needs to compare to while verifying)

[Nuke1096]

Ya but two batches in a row? Although they did come from the same store...

In any event I'm thinking about trying a batch of Verbatims from a different vendor.

[Roderz]

A quote from a previous post I made on same subject

"Many many many times I've had nero tell me that the verify failed..
I then save the log file and look for the the files it complain'd about and compare them with a hex editor (Beyond Compare 2, or WinHex) do a binary compare and guess what - nothing, zero, zilch, nada

Both hex editors tell me no differance found - most of the time (only once was nero right and then it was only 38 odd clusters and the disk played fine)"

even with riteks & TY's. ( I think my burner just get shaged out and can't be arsed co-operating with nero sometimes)
Nero for burning, proper tools for comparisons...... need I say more.

[Thorn]

and I'm even burning at 2x

Try 1x. I had a batch of TDK 2x dvdr where every single one failed verification on the outer third at 2x burn, but always verified ok at 1x burn. No similar probs with the g04s, and the g03's were burning at 1x with my firmware so I couldn't compare. The "fake" unbranded TDK burned happily at 2x, so I knew this was a media issue. You should try at least one disc of another type (just grab something at best buy or swap with a friend) to make sure it's the media and not your burner.

Look where the error occured. If you can actually watch the part where the error is found, you can judge for yourself if it's a problem (often not with video). I do think it's odd to have every single one fail verification.

If you find the contents to be identical with something like CDCheck, then it might be that there's a read problem the first time when the compare is done.

[thor300]

I can only speak for myself here, but every time a DVD fails to verify after burn its easily reproduced when playing it in the xbox or in the PC using PowerDVD, my Pioneer standalone will play it perfectly. No need to say i throw every disk that fails to verify, thats a coaster and nothing else.

[Lobe]

...and as far as verify goes, I'm not using Nero, only Toast on the Mac, so it could just be something with Nero. I haven't had a bad Ritek-- i know many are having problems with them now, so I have avoided them in the past few months, but I doubt they're THAT bad, sounds like Nero, your burner, or your system.

[iooi]

I have a Pioneer DVR-A05 with the latest Firmware and I'm using RITEKG04 Media,

Which brand of Riteks though there are many diffrent types..... If its the Landscape one's then its not a surprise as these are NOT Grade 1 quality...

Have same set up as you and have no trouble, but i never verifey after a burn....

[Nuke1096]

Just a quick update...

Finally got around to trying some Verbatim's Data Life Plus and they fail file verfication within Nero as well. What the hell is wrong with Nero? Unless it's just my burner, I really dont think it is...

Anyways, I'm probably going to take Roderz advice and use Beyond Compare to do the file verfication.

Though one thing just occured to me when going through possible solutions. I do have a program called Disk Keeper in running in the background, so I wonder if that could cause a problem because essentially it's moving files around. Since its basically a automatic disk defragger that runs in the background, though I'm positve it's set to only do it at certain hours, anotherwords never when I'm burning. Just something to think about, maybe somebody with that software could chime in.

http://www.lyonware.co.uk/Diskeeper.htm

[Nuke1096]

Btw, has anyone used Cd Check for file comparision?

If so would you say it's a reliable program to use for verfication on newly burned cd's and dvd's?

http://www.elpros.si/CDCheck/

[John2001]

Maybe a silly question but are the buffers shown in Nero nearly full while burning at 4X or do they sometimes dip to a low level? Have you checked that both the disk drive and DVD writer have DMA enabled and aren't running in PIO mode?

[Nuke1096]

Maybe a silly question but are the buffers shown in Nero nearly full while burning at 4X or do they sometimes dip to a low level? Have you checked that both the disk drive and DVD writer have DMA enabled and aren't running in PIO mode?

Hmm well it's usually in the 90%'s so I think it's ok in that regard.

Windows seems to show it's in DMA Mode but is there a utility I can try to verify this 100%...I dont trust windows, even if it's Windows XP

Though I did notice that my CD Burner seems to be stuck in PIO Mode so that might explain any problems with my CD Burner, but I havent really used it in a long time. Though I cant help but be a little suspicious about my DVD Burner...

[jimmalenko]

File Verification is a waste of time IMO. I have never and will never waste the time to do that. If it don't play when I want it to play, it gets chucked. After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem.

[Capmaster]

DVD players have fault-tolerance built-in, much like CD audio. A CD can get pretty ratty before it won't play at all. The player interpolates, or "guesses" what bit goes there if it can't read it.

Burning data DVDs or CDs is primarily where you want to use data verification, if at all. I just leave it off all the time.

[daredevil]

I always made file verification with nero, even for video, And if it fails, I try to copy the dvd with dvddecrypter, for some it's a waste of time but for me it necessary, if you watch a movie and if it stucks at the end that is for me a waste of time.
And don't stay in front of your computer when it's copying, go do something else and you'll see that there is another world around your pc and tv.

[thor300]

Ok Jimmalenco, i thought the purpose of a backup was to have something if the original fails, but for you thats not an issue? If you dont care if a backup is error free, then why back up in the first place? This small errors are not noticeable in a good standalone, i can only notice when i play the coasters in the xbox, the pioneer doesnt care at all, but i KNOW they are faulty, and i throw them and make a new when verification fails. I almost said ofcourse, whats the point of archiving bad disks?

[jimmalenko]

I always made file verification with nero, even for video, And if it fails, I try to copy the dvd with dvddecrypter, for some it's a waste of time but for me it necessary, if you watch a movie and if it stucks at the end that is for me a waste of time.
And don't stay in front of your computer when it's copying, go do something else and you'll see that there is another world around your pc and tv.

Wouldn't it just be quicker (and better quality) to use the original to make another copy instead of making a copy of a copy ?

[jimmalenko]

Ok Jimmalenco, i thought the purpose of a backup was to have something if the original fails, but for you thats not an issue?

No. I make a backup so that the original stays on my shelf, never to be used.

If you dont care if a backup is error free, then why back up in the first place?

My point is to have a backup that you don't need to be overly careful with - then you use the original to make another copy if need be.


It makes perfect sense to me to make a backup of the original and then leave the original on the shelf while I use the backed up copy for everyday use. I'm guessing by your comments that you do it the other way around and leave your generally lesser quality backup on the shelf while ruining your original ???

[888888]

File Verification is a waste of time IMO. I have never and will never waste the time to do that. If it don't play when I want it to play, it gets chucked. After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem.

How many times can you make that same comment about owning the original. I think people get the point.

In my experience, every time NERO 6.3.1.10 succesfully verifies a disc, it has burnt well. Every time it does not, there are problems, usually with the menues and on the edge of the disc.

Also, good media verifies and bad media dosn't.

[jimmalenko]

File Verification is a waste of time IMO. I have never and will never waste the time to do that. If it don't play when I want it to play, it gets chucked. After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem.

How many times can you make that same comment about owning the original. I think people get the point.

Feeling a little built guilty are we ???

My sole intention was to get the point across to you, and you alone

Seriously, if people are legitimitely creating backups of material they own then there is nothing wrong with what I have said. If not, well...

If the disc plays from beginning to end, happy days. If it doesn't, backup the original again. As mentioned, media plays a big part. Buy quality media and use proven methods that work for you and you will eliminate the need for verification.

[pyrohydra]

Feeling a little built guilty are we ???

My sole intention was to get the point across to you, and you alone

Seriously, if people are legitimitely creating backups of material they own then there is nothing wrong with what I have said. If not, well...

If the disc plays from beginning to end, happy days. If it doesn't, backup the original again. As mentioned, media plays a big part. Buy quality media and use proven methods that work for you and you will eliminate the need for verification.

You do realize that not all of us exclusively burn "backups" to DVD. Some of us create *GASP* DATA DVDs and home movies to DVD-Video.

Shocking, I know.

[jimmalenko]

You do realize that not all of us exclusively burn "backups" to DVD. Some of us create *GASP* DATA DVDs and home movies to DVD-Video.

Shocking, I know.

That's fine champ, so do I. I was simply using thor300's example.

I still don't verify though. Burn it, leave the source on my HD until I can watch/browse the material to make sure all is well. Never had a data burn go wrong....yet.

Each to their own.

[ajc53]

You do realize that not all of us exclusively burn "backups" to DVD. Some of us create *GASP* DATA DVDs and home movies to DVD-Video.

I make primarily home movies, and I never select verify. I do as jimmalenko and test each DVD myself. I would test it myself even if I did select verify, so I don't see the need to do both.

However, I will select verify when backing up data files, because it is usually not practical for me to test it thoroughly.

[thor300]

Give me a break Jimmalenco! Using my example?? Am i the one who wrote "After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem" and then repeat it over and over again til everyone like to puke?

[SaSi]

I always verify after recording. It's a habbit I acquired from initial tortures(!!).

Typically, the verify will succeed.

However, I've had two strange experiences:

A DVD video disk failed to verify. Nero said that some of the files on disk were inaccesible. The disk won't play on the PC. It plays happily on three players I tried.

Another disk didn't fail to verify. I subsequently tried to rip it with DVDDecrypter and SmartRipper (to obtain two parts of the video for a compliation of clips) and it failed to rip. Tried copying it directly and it failed again. And ofcourse this disk plays happily on the standalone player.

I think that it is only important to have 100% verification success with data disks. This is the only case when failing to read a file means the end of its existence.

[888888]

A DVD video disk failed to verify. Nero said that some of the files on disk were inaccesible. The disk won't play on the PC. It plays happily on three players I tried.

That's what I would get. The disc did play fine through most of it but there were errors in the menues and towards the end. You might want to check that disc. You may find an error or skip pop up you didn't notice before.

[jimmalenko]

Give me a break Jimmalenco! Using my example?? Am i the one who wrote "After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem" and then repeat it over and over again til everyone like to puke?

Are you implying that you don't own the originals to some of your so-called "backups" ???

I was using your example of making a backup of video DVDs only. Then some wanker pays me out about there being other types of DVD apart from DVD video, even though I am well aware that there are other use for DVD. Now this...

Why does everyone have a problem with owning the originals ???

[thor300]

Ok if you dont read other peoples posts, but at least try to read your own. I was talking about YOUR backups, not mine. Yes i do backup my dvds, but i dont WATCH a backup, unless you know something i dont know i asume your backups have either reduced quality or split to two disks, in both cases the original is very much preferred. Try to start reading from the top and see who is talking about dvd backups, who brought the subject up (and who owns the originals)

[888888]

Give me a break Jimmalenco! Using my example?? Am i the one who wrote "After all, I own the originals so creating another backup is no problem" and then repeat it over and over again til everyone like to puke?

Are you implying that you don't own the originals to some of your so-called "backups" ???

I was using your example of making a backup of video DVDs only. Then some wanker pays me out about there being other types of DVD apart from DVD video, even though I am well aware that there are other use for DVD. Now this...

Why does everyone have a problem with owning the originals ???

I think it is very admirable that you have principles. But you gotta admit that it is annoying if somebody posts the same condescending comment over and over in different threads- that being "if you owned the originals". People get it already. And you might want to stop accusing people of bootlegging, even if there is circumstantial evidence to support it. There are tons of message boards that have people openly talking about DVD piracy, why not go there and lay the smack down. I have bought many a DVD in my life and continue to.

note: (this is the first time in my life I have used the term "lay the smackdown" this will be a one time occurence)

[rixware]

I've been wondering about this very subject, and I've started a poll.

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