Is It True That In Canada It's Illegal ...?

[rkr1958]

O.K., I heard this last night and just wanted to confirm it. I heard that it was illegal in Canada to pull down from satellite and watch TV progams that have not been approved by the Canadian Government for viewing by their people. I'm not talking about X-rated stuff but primetime TV shows and news programs from the U.S. I also understand that anyone caught viewing these "illegal" programs are subject to fines and imprisionment. Someone straighten me out ... this can't be true!?

[lordsmurf]

Some of that is true, some of it is not. I once knew the details, but not seen info on it in 1-2 years.

[SLK001]

That's probably true. I know that it illegal for Canadians to view US television broadcasts from across the border.

Go figure... Wait... they're Canadians - 'nuff said.

[Doramius]

I was up in York, Ontario in Canada. There were several people who did it out in the hick areas (even more hick than normal for Canada). The problem is you have to have a physical US address to have the cable service. Many have family members in the US and get their US satellite service this way. You also have to do the satellite positioning yourself and it's hard at long distances from the original location to do it, but there is some know how up there, aye'. As for the illegal portion, I don't know anything for sure from the canadian gov't that would fine them, but the egotistical, money crazy, self absorbed US entertainment industry has a beef about it due to odd international laws.(why do you think DVDs have region coding) I very positive Time Warner, COX, and maybe a few other satellite cable companies have clauses in their contracts that say you MUST BE A US RESIDENT and have the SERVICE TO ONLY BE USED IN THE US. And they have an international legal agreement to enforce it within what's called LINE OF SIGHT from their satellite. Again, as for national laws and international laws, I haven't a clue, but the satellite companies pretty much have you locked.

[rkr1958]

As for the illegal portion, I don't know anything for sure from the canadian gov't that would fine them, but the egotistical, money crazy, self absorbed US entertainment industry has a beef about it due to odd international laws.

I didn't think of it from the US side trying to protect their content. The way I heard the story the Canadian Gov't wanted to control the influence of U.S. culture (or lack there of) protrayed in U.S. TV shows and news on the Canadians.

Is it illegal for a Canadian to capture (via satellite or antenna) and view a U.S. TV program (assuming that the signal was broadcast in the open and no decryption was required)?

[reboot]

Huh?
There's two sets of laws.
1.) It is illegal to view (directly) US broadcasts.
2.) It is LEGAL to view anything in the airwaves that one can receive with LEGAL equipment.
Trust us to come up with oxymoronic laws.
Anyhow, what it means is:
1.) We get a LOT of American programming but can only watch it legally if it's provided by our local cable co/tv station as a rebroadcast, or via antenna from a Canadian broadcaster. This allows them to interject only Canadian content advertising, and a minimum of 20% of all content must be Canadian origin. Viewing foreign broadcasts directly is illegal...BUT!!!...
2.) If it's in the air, and we can build/buy equipment to view/listen to it, it's legal. This includes all radio and tv broadcast bands as well as cell phone, wireless phone, satellite phone, police, fire, ambulance, what ever it may be. Everything from the garage door opener, to telephone microwave.
Now, for example, if one were caught watching an American broadcast via satellite directly, are you a.) Breaking the law as specified in #1, or b.) Completely legal as specified in #2?
Your guess is as good as mine, and I live here!

[rkr1958]

Huh?
There's two sets of laws.
1.) It is illegal to view (directly) US broadcasts.
2.) It is LEGAL to view anything in the airwaves that one can receive with LEGAL equipment. ...
Now, for example, if one were caught watching an American broadcast via satellite directly, are you a.) Breaking the law as specified in #1, or b.) Completely legal as specified in #2?
Your guess is as good as mine, and I live here!

Well, thanks for clearing that up. That sounds as ambigious as our fair use but don't break DVD encryption laws.

[sitlet]

we have a summer cottage in Leamington, which is right on lake erie. we have a rotating antenna on the roof, from which we can pick up all the american stations i get at home (i live on across the lake on the american side in michigan). ive never heard anything about this being illegal.

[John James]

That's probably true. I know that it illegal for Canadians to view US television broadcasts from across the border.

Go figure... Wait... they're Canadians - 'nuff said.

This is stupidity and what is the difference of getting a TV Station coming from Plattsburgh or Burlington across the border into a Montreal hotel?

Why would this be illegal to watch American broadcast via satellite? If this is true, I think the Canadian Government is going too far on broadcasting laws?

I‘ve heard that it is illegal in Australia to receive X-Rated stuff via satellite from another country and I don’t think it is illegal to receive normal TV shows though?

What about Internet Radio in Canada receiving music from a Chicago and what is the difference there? This should be via satellite too? Have the Canadians gone mad.

[gll99]

In Canada, communications fall under federal law. This includes cable and satellite signals. We cannot legally go to the US and purchase an American satellite system and then subscribe to an American program distributor. Up until recently some were doing this by supplying an American address and getting around the rules. Only vendors located in Canada could be prosecuted but they rarely went after the dish owner. Another problem is that American companies did not know who these people were and wanted them out too because many cracked their boxes and reprogrammed the cards to get all the stations while paying for basic service. The laws have been tightened now to allow prosecution of dish owners and satellite companies have also found new tricks to disable these cracked cards.

These restrictions apply also to any programming from outside Canada ie... Arab countries, Israel, France, UK just to name a few. We just mention the USA because it appears like such a natural fit. One would expect an open border in entertainment. Don't get it wrong we get all the major US networks. In my area cable carries ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX from retransmitted Detroit network affiliates. We also get CNN and have available as a specialty channel MSNBC news, BBC newsworld etc... We don't have HBO and your other movie channels at this time because they are not appoved instead we have TMN (The movie network) which purchase the right to many movies shown on your movie networks but many at a different time. I suspect that DVDs are often released later in Canada and if we had access to your movie channels some movies would be available there before the DVD was out.
As reboot says they also intercept your commercials and replace them with Canadian ads which helps pay the bucks for the local cable and satellite firms. The Canadian content rule is also true but some movies qualify even though the lead actors are American because they were made and subsidized in canada wheras other movies with the leads played by Canadians like William Shatner, Jim Carrey, Mike Myers etc.. do not qualify as Canadian content.
As was said if you live on the border it's perfectly legal to receive on air broadcasts even if you boost the antenna signal.

[John James]

I suspect that DVDs are often released later in Canada and if we had access to your movie channels some movies would be available there before the DVD was out.

I've seen movies distributed for the U.S. and Canada as in one release showing classfication of US/R and CAN/18A.

The DVD region is 1 and why an invisible border on TV shows? This is ridiculous.

I’ve seen TV shows as parallel on both sides of the border.

It’s not unusual for the same live TV show be broadcasted in the US TV network and in the Canadian TV network simultaneously.

Why is Satellite TV any different?

[fmctm1sw]

The way I heard the story the Canadian Gov't wanted to control the influence of U.S. culture (or lack there of) protrayed in U.S. TV shows and news on the Canadians.

Oh no. Don't let them see that South Park movie then....

[gll99]

I’ve seen TV shows as parallel on both sides of the border.

It’s not unusual for the same live TV show be broadcasted in the US TV network and in the Canadian TV network simultaneously.

It's not the tv show content they worry about. It's the Canadian satellite and cable industries themselves that are being protected and the 20% Canadian content. In addition to American feeds we also have national, regional and local stations who buy programming from US and international sources and usually in the case of first run shows, play the shows at the same time as the US feed in their time zone. Some shows shown on the US networks at 8pm (Enterprise, Smallville) are often available an hour earlier on my time shift station from an eastern Canada feed at 7 pm.

I know that there is a specific restriction on the American Movie channels. We have been asking for years to allow the major US Movie channels to be shown here in their original format but they are still unavailable. The standard response is that the unaffiliated TMN (The movie Network in Canada) can freely shop around and purchase the rights to movies from all major US movie networks and that thereby we are better served at a reduced cost to us. That means that some shows produced by these particular movie networks may never be shown in Canada unless pusrchased by TMN or some of our Canadian networks. However anything on ABC,CBS and NBC and Fox as long as it's carried by the affiliate that feeds our signal will be broadcast to those who have the Canadian satellite or cable service (In fact we get a second feed from the west of all the major American networks which repeats the shows 3 hours later from a different affiliate). It's not about x rating because even our regular movie channels show xxx rated movies as part of the standard movie cable package. Who knows what is available on pay per view.

[gmatov]

gll,

I'll bet you have at least an inkling of what is available on PPV?

I'd say it's a money thing. We want to deliver this to you, so we can charge the advertisers XXX for the time available for commercials.

Look at the "Friends" finale. 2 million per 30 second spot. Second only to the last Superbowl, at 2.3.

Cheers,

George

[gll99]

gmatov

gll,

I'll bet you have at least an inkling of what is available on PPV?

Yes George at my age I do know, but I've never purchased a ppv movie in all the years with cable (even the regular ones). I prefer to wait 3 to 6 months and see it on TMN. That's why I pay the big bucks for the cable service why pay again when I can wait. When it's a movie I know I want to own I just buy the DVD which is out soon after the ppv movie.

Look at the "Friends" finale. 2 million per 30 second spot. Second only to the last Superbowl, at 2.3.

Up here (if North is up) during the superbowl we got a lot of canadian beer commercials. I'm sure they can't charge as much for the time slot but it's a relatively high profile sports event even in Canada so Canadian advertisers must have paid a pretty penny. This is another case of the purchase of a total American feed, American anouncers, (yes we saw the halftime show) etc.. but then the cable / satellite companies in Canada sell time to local advertisers and pocket the money.

cheers

[Doramius]

I would honestly like to see Canada Annexed as the 51st state. U.S. People have more beef with the neighbors to the south than most every other country were not at war with.

[gll99]

Doramius

would honestly like to see Canada Annexed as the 51st state. U.S. People have more beef with the neighbors to the south than most every other country were not at war with.

As Ricki Ricardo used to say... can you splain dat blucie?

[Doramius]

There should be bo problems with Canada and the US especially by the airwaves. I know they have similar laws in Mexico, but they enforce it probably .002% compared to all enforcement in Canada and the US. If there's any enforcement of US airwave in Mexico, it's done by the US gov't. Canada and US have a little bit better relationship, and the airwaves should just as well be shared too. Honeslty, if people had a way to charge for air, they'd do it. Just look at some gas stations.

[gll99]

Doramius
Canada and the US have an excellent understanding when it comes to the communications media. The airwaves are free. There is no jamming or anything like that and we can easily pick up American radio broadcasts even hundreds of miles from the border. Tv signals from some NY stations come in pretty clear from large outdoor antenna for residents of southern Ontario although less people are using those now than a couple of decades ago.
As someone mentionned earlier it's about protecting Canadian culture. Just as in international trade our largest partner is the US so it is in the TV and movies we import. If there were no controls, many Canadian broadcasters would go out of business except for maybe some local news shows and the weather channel. It's just the reality of how much is produced in the USA versus home grown programming. It's cheaper to import from the the USA than to produce locally. So there has to be some incentives and safeguards to both create and nurture a local industry.
Similarly the Canadian gov't and the province of Quebec have protected french language programming within the province and the federal gov't has also ensured accessibility to french programming for the majority of Canadians.
Canadians are very fortunate to enjoy a wide variety of programming from around the world. The federal controls are not there to censor programming because this is usually handled at the provincial level.
While it is illegal to use American satellite services within Canada this is not as harsh as it seems when you understand the larger picture.

Canada as a 51st state? That interesting but that state would be larger in land area than all the others combined?

[reboot]

Canada as a 51st state? That interesting but that state would be larger in land area than all the others combined?

But with less population than L.A.

[HillJack]

O.K., I heard this last night and just wanted to confirm it. I heard that it was illegal in Canada to pull down from satellite and watch TV progams that have not been approved by the Canadian Government for viewing by their people. I'm not talking about X-rated stuff but primetime TV shows and news programs from the U.S. I also understand that anyone caught viewing these "illegal" programs are subject to fines and imprisionment. Someone straighten me out ... this can't be true!?

It is illegal to have an American satellite service in Canada. Therefore, you are subject to fines and imprisonment if caught (but the chances of that happening are almost nil since the RCMP have better things to do (ooh, like the sponsorship scandal!)).

Though, in all fairness, the RCMP says while they do not search out illegal users, during the course of a normal investiagation, if they see illegal equipment, you can expect heafty fines and very long jail time (I'd quote where I read this, but for the life of me, I can't find it again). They do go after the distributors of the equipment on a regular basis though.

-------------------------------------

Look at the "Friends" finale. 2 million per 30 second spot. Second only to the last Superbowl, at 2.3.

Up here (if North is up) during the superbowl we got a lot of canadian beer commercials. I'm sure they can't charge as much for the time slot but it's a relatively high profile sports event even in Canada so Canadian advertisers must have paid a pretty penny. This is another case of the purchase of a total American feed, American anouncers, (yes we saw the halftime show) etc.. but then the cable / satellite companies in Canada sell time to local advertisers and pocket the money.

cheers

This reminds me of a news article I read a few months back. Global TV (sadly, the people who own Canada.com) was so proud of the fact they would get to charge advertisers some $25,000 (yes, a whole twenty-five thousand dollars) per 30-second spot during the Friends finale. I had to laugh!

And the CRTC/Cable Co's wonder why there are over 400,000 illegal american satellite dishes in Canada? Because, excluding Hockey Night In Canada by the CBC, 99% of Canadian content is complete crap imo, and the stuff people really want to see comes FROM the U.S anyway. Yet, for some reason, when we do get an american broadcast, say Tech TV for example, we get the american show content, but we get stupid-ass canadian commercials. If I see another Northern Response or Interwood or Buck-a-Day/MDG, or whatever they're calling themselves this month, commercial... There's Canadian content, then there's "you want to advertise what on our channel? well, it has absolutely nothing to do with our channel (using the TechTV example) but hell, as long as you'll pay us $500/day we'll air it... over and over and over and over and over and over.... we'll drill the idea of another shitty product into our viewers so they'll be sure to switch the channel at the hint of another commerical break"

In Canada, you can have your local cable, or ExpressVu or StarChoice satellite service (StarChoice is owned by Shaw Cable). NONE offer anything different than the other, except for a bit on price and the equipment. The content and available channels are identical.

I say again, they wonder why there are 400,000+ illegal American satellite dishes installed in Canada. If my place had a clear line South, I'd get myself a DirecTV system, and find somebody in the US who I can pay to "pretend" they are me. I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to pay DirecTV for the service, it's the stupid idiot CRTC that says I can't have it. To hell with Canadian content - whoever can give me the best product while taking the least amount of my money (or just the best product in the case, since Canadian satellite is a joke) will get my business. I'm more than happy to say that, legal or not.

[Doramius]

I understand that Canada has it's own limitations for it's own purposes, and they are not that bad(I was in York, Ontario for a couple years, too). I may have sent the wrong impression on that. It's not really Canada that has the big fault there. They only require something like 20-25% be local cultural related broadcasting. And with a standard antenna, when I lived back in Rochester, NY years earlier, I know that Canadians would participate in PBS fund raisers and vice versa by NY to Canada's Public Service Stations. I contributed to both back then. What I was trying to imply, is that the US entertainment industry, sattelite, and cable companies are the big chokers at limiting what people can view of their services.
----
I honestly think adding a small bit of Canadian culture might improve a bit of the US.

[gmatov]

It is all, when you come down to it, money, money, money.

Who is, or was the big deal in Canada? I thought it was Rogers Communications. They got the House, whatever you call your legislators, to pass laws prohibiting US signal from encroaching on their territory so that they could charge their own tariff.

It's all it is or ever will be. They have the franchise, read Monopoly, and till Murdoch takes over them all, you will get only what they can dicker the provider down to as to their price for what they will serve you.

You may be willing to pay a buck extra, but they, as in Dish Network, etc, think XX cents per subscriber is toomuch. Look at what they did here recently, shut down a whole network of channels because the Network wanted a penny or 2 more, per head.

Hey, a penny ahead for 25 million subscribers is 250 thou a month, 3 million a year. You can kiss my ass, we won't carry you..

And if you get pissed off, where you gonna go? Back to the antenna and 3 or 4 channels?

Cheers,

George