Pioneer DVR-520H-S file format

[kenmo]

Can anyone tell me what file format are files captured on the hard drive of this unit in (ie: do the files have a .mpg extension or a .vob or ....???)

How about files captured on the DVD-R of this unit, what format are they in....

I realize the files are all mpeg encoded using hardware but I more interested if the file format... As I'm interested in this unit BUT I will probably use my two computers for DVD autthoring and burning.

[FulciLives]

Use DVD-RW on the Pioneer stand alone DVD recorder and then import it to your computer.

The two main popular programs for doing that are MPEG-VCR by Womble Multimedia and TMPGEnc DVD Author by Pegasys Inc.

After you import to your computer you can re-use the DVD-RW again and again and again ... in the meantime you re-author the version you copied to the comuter and put it on a DVD-R or DVD+R with your computer's DVD burner.

Doing this is actually rather common ... no big mystery to it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Just make sure when you use DVD-RW on the Pionneer stand alone DVD recorder that you use DVD Video mode instead of VR mode.

[kenmo]

Thanks kindly for your reply. Are the files on the HD raw mpeg files or are they VOB files ? How about the files on the recorders DVD ?

Again thanks

Kenmo

[FulciLives]

My understanding is that you cannot extract the recordings off of the HDD drives in stand alone DVD recorders ... otherthan the normal way, by burning it to a DVD (the one built into the unit that is).

In other words you can't take out the HDD and plug it in your computer and extract the video from it.

So as to what format it is in on the HDD I do not know.

I do know this though ... you can trasnfer from the HDD to the DVD without re-encoding as long as you don't change the recording mode.

Also if you intend to do computer re-authoring you don't want to use VR mode.

- John

[seb]

Thanks kindly for your reply. Are the files on the HD raw mpeg files or are they VOB files ? How about the files on the recorders DVD ?

Again thanks

Kenmo

Not sure about the format on the HDD - could be .VRO files I suppose???

Regarding DVDs made on the recorder - if you recorded to a DVD-VIDEO formatted disc, they'll be standard VOBs. If the disc was formatted as DVD-VR, you'll find a .VRO file.

Note that the video in a VRO file might not be in a standard DVD resolution depending on the bitrate that you recorded at. DVD-VIDEO discs will always have DVD compliant (e.g. D1, half D1 resolution) video files.

Hope this is of some help to you.

[mazinz]

not sure if this will help, but if the pioneer HD is anything like the panasonic HD, then picture it like this: one giant memory card. This is why they do not work/cannot be seen like a regular hardrive when hooked up to the pc. They are in their own format, similar to a memory card, where everything is just data.

Im sure though if you were a programmer you could prob extract it, but for the most part.....best to leave well enough alone

[kenmo]

Presently I captured shows to my computers hard drive as an Avi using my ATi TV Wonder. I then edit out advertisements in VirtrualDub and frameserve the Avi to Tmpgenc to encode as a DVD compliant Mpeg2 file.

I also like to use VirtualDub to filter out unwanted noise and clean up the picture.

So I guess using a recorder could be done BUT I would have to use TmpEnc DVDAuthor to cut out the ads and forget about any video noise.

[mazinz]

well for quickness you could still use a recorder to cut out the commercials (if it has a HD, otherwise you have to cut the commericals out on the fly and not later on), or what i do, burn whatever to a ramdisc (in your case dvd-rw) rip the thing back to an mpeg2 with whatever ripper (have it make it as one big file and keep it together, not elementary), and use your favoirite editor (womble mpeg2vcr) and do what you will. Still fast and easy.

I do own a capture card, but currently im getting horizontal line interference that goes from the bottom to the top of the screen. I switched several wires and such but still cannot figure out whats causing it or what will make it go away

[kenmo]

Once the show is onto a DVD-Rw why not use Tmpgenc DVD Author to cut out the tv ads ?

[mazinz]

womble is such a better editor, plus if you import direct dvd files into tmpg dvd author, it will still give a slight siwtch when it goes to play each vob file, instead of seeing it as one whole movie like it should

[rhegedus]

Also if you intend to do computer re-authoring you don't want to use VR mode.

I use VR for my editing - is there something I'm missing?

[FulciLives]

womble is such a better editor, plus if you import direct dvd files into tmpg dvd author, it will still give a slight siwtch when it goes to play each vob file, instead of seeing it as one whole movie like it should

1.) MPEG-VCR by Womble Multimedia will allow you more freedom when editing because you can put an edit at ANY point you want to edit at. The only drawback to editing with TMPGEnc DVD Author is that you can only edit on an I frame and with MPEG-2 DVD spec video an I frame only happens about once every 15 frames, give or take. The problem with this type of editing is that some TV commercials start so quicky after the show break (or straight from commercial back to the TV show) that you might have to leave a few fleeting frames of the commercial in there when you are restricted to editing on I frames only. Either that or you will have to cut "into" the show a bit to sometimes completely remove all traces of TV commercials. Since an I frame only happens once every 15 frames or so your editing is accurate to about 1/2 of a second, give or take. This limitation aside ... there is nothing wrong with the editing function of TMPGEnc DVD Author.

2.) I have never had TMPGEnc DVD Author "glitch" in the way that you are describing. I don't know what version you have or how you are importing your files or what format they are in but I have never ever had this problem. I should point out that that while I have done with with DVD-R and DVD-RW discs made in a stand alone DVD recorder none have come from a Pioneer model stand alone DVD recorder.

Another possible solution ...

Instead of getting a stand alone DVD recorder get a computer capture device that does hardware MPEG encoding.

One such popular device is the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250 which is a PCI card that does hardware MPEG encoding. Hauppauge also makes the very similar WinTV PVR-350 (the main difference is it has a built-in MPEG decoder with output for a TV) and there is also an external USB2 version called the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-USB2.

I don't know the limitations of the external USB2 version but the WinTV PVR-250 and PVR-350 both can do MPEG-2 encoding up to 12,000kbps (and some people say it can actually go as high as 15,000kbps). Remember that with DVD spec MPEG-2 you are limited to about 8,000kbps on the video.

I know of several people that use the WinTV PVR-250/350 to encode at this super high bitrate level (from 12,000kbps to 15,000kbps) because it gives you SUCH a clean artifact free MPEG capture that you can edit/filter etc. then re-encode with a software MPEG encoder (such as TMPGEnc Plus or CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER etc.) to get it back down to standard DVD MPEG-2 spec. Even though MPEG-2 is a lossy form of compression when you use 12,000kbps to 15,000kbps you are using SO little compression that it makes a good clean capture that can be re-encoded with little to no additional fuss ... sort of what you do now when you capture to AVI format.

I think this is a great idea and might be trying this myself in the near future. The only downside I see to this is that the WinTV PVR-250/350 can only capture MP2 audio. I do think there is a hack you can use in order to capture uncompressed PCM WAV but then you will most likely encounter A/V sync problems. So you have to capture MP2 and of course use the highest bitrate for MP2 (which is 384kbps). At that point ... if you don't want to use MP2 on the final DVD (and most of us don't) you would have to convert it first to a 16-bit 48k Stereo PCM WAV file then either use that for your audio or go the extra step and convert it to AC-3 audio (I find going straight from MP2 to AC-3 can cause problems).

Here is a link to a website that has a great wealth of information on the Hauppauge WinTV PVR capture cards and devices:

http://www.shspvr.com/

Good luck with whatever your final decision should be!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I should note that I have seen both screen grabs and actual video samples made from the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250 and the quality is MOST excellent. However I have heard that this capture card can be a bit troubling when the source is not high quality ... such as a videotape source. By troubling I mean that you might drop some frames here or there which could end up causing A/V sync issues. Using a full frame TBC will solve that problem but these devices are in the $200.00 to $300.00 USD price range. The Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250 is about $150.00 USD. Expensive but consider this ... you can get the capture card and a TBC for the combined price of around $350.00 to $450.00 USD which isn't that different a price from a stand alone DVD recorder ... but you get so much more options and choices in your encoding and post-encoding environment than you can using a stand alone DVD recorder.

[FulciLives]

Also if you intend to do computer re-authoring you don't want to use VR mode.

I use VR for my editing - is there something I'm missing?

If you intend to record to a DVD disc on a stand alone DVD recorder with the thought of then importing it to the computer for additional editing/processing including re-authoring you do NOT want to use VR mode on the original DVD recording.

Many people using a variety of different model/makes of stand alone DVD recorders have found that the VR mode just does not function well when you intend to do MORE WITH IT using your computer.

There are a variety of reasons as to why this is so ... just do a search on this forum or the DVD recorder forum at the AVS FORUM website.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[kenmo]

Does MPEG-VCR by Womble Multimedia come with this Pioneer recorder...??? Does any PC software come with the recorder ???

TIA

Kenmo

[rhegedus]

Also if you intend to do computer re-authoring you don't want to use VR mode.

I use VR for my editing - is there something I'm missing?

If you intend to record to a DVD disc on a stand alone DVD recorder with the thought of then importing it to the computer for additional editing/processing including re-authoring you do NOT want to use VR mode on the original DVD recording.

Many people using a variety of different model/makes of stand alone DVD recorders have found that the VR mode just does not function well when you intend to do MORE WITH IT using your computer.

There are a variety of reasons as to why this is so ... just do a search on this forum or the DVD recorder forum at the AVS FORUM website.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Well this is what works for me:

Copy VR file to PC
Chanee VRO extension to mpg
This new mpeg will be seen by most editing software - if it doesn't 'see' the sound, use DVD2AVI to get a wav file and use that as the sound source.
For editing I convert to DV using Vegas and then re-encode to mpeg using TMPGEnc to get exactly the file size I want.

Seems complicated, works like a dream (especially since VR disks take half the time to burn)