cheap media

[mikey388]

I was using cheap dvd-r media with no problems but the new batch has got jumpy towards the end and I have had to cut down size of disc to 4GB to sort it out.What is the difference between the medias(I thought they would have to be a certain standard).I have looked at the media guide and the RITEKG04 discs get a good review.All help gladly received

[Capmaster]

Media brand and model is probably even more hotly debated here than PC vs. MAC It's very subjective and everyone has their favorite.

It is too bad that what you say isn't true - that standards would be tight enough that buying a new brand of media isn't the crapshoot that it really is.

For example, I had been using a very cheap media for 2 years - Princo white-tops. Definitely not a Grade A media, but as almost all of my burns are below 4.2GB they seemed to work out for me ....until the last purchase of 200. I got about 40 coasters, and the price was suddenly way too high for such a failure rate. I switched to Ritek G03 and have been happy so far. The net difference between the two, including shipping charges, was 2 cents a disc. I should have switched long ago.

Add to the lack of tight QA the fact that each burner model seems to have a preference (or maybe that's because of the wide variation in quality) and buying DVD blanks becomes a risky venture. You can spend $2-3/disc on a premium brand, but if you burn 50 or 100/month that becomes a big expense.

I suggest you read some of Lordsmurf's posts on media. He's the board's resident media expert.

[indolikaa]

Taiyo Yuden and Maxell.


Ritek used to be almost foolproof, but lately they've been duped by some shit-quality clones, so you want to ask around here to find out where people are getting good Ritek from right now.

Anything else, it's not a bad idea to buy smaller quantities and test them before you buy in bulk.

[Nilfennasion]

I'm in Australia, so I don't know how relevant my experience will be to your marketplace(s), but I have so far tried four different brands. I've found that few which claim to support 4X-speed actually support it. Datastream "Professional" discs even caused DVDDecrypter to spit the dummy and report bogus errors when I tried to write at 4X.

TDK 4X-speed 25-disc spindles are now available for less than $70 here. When a brand like TDK is less than three Australian dollars a disc, it basically means there is no compelling reason anymore to look at no-name knock-offs. I've burned so many TDK CD-Rs and DVD-Rs that I will never consider another brand.

[mikey388]

Thanks for that,seems the moral is find a disc that works for you and stick with it.
One more question I have just been reading a review of my dvd recorder(liteon ldw-451s)and it says that the firmware is regularly updated to support more media.What exactly does this mean and if I have media I am happy with is it worth the risk.
Thanks to all
Mike

[Capmaster]

Thanks for that,seems the moral is find a disc that works for you and stick with it.
One more question I have just been reading a review of my dvd recorder(liteon ldw-451s)and it says that the firmware is regularly updated to support more media.What exactly does this mean and if I have media I am happy with is it worth the risk.
Thanks to all
Mike

A good policy that works for BIOS flashing and burner firmware is "if you're satisfied, don't update it". If you start having media problems then it's a good idea.

[indolikaa]

When new media is released the 'optical characteristics' of the disc maybe such that the DVD burner doesn't recognize or understand how to calibrate to it. Firmware upgrades often address this issue. A classic example is when media speeds change.

I staggered the firmware updates on my Optorite drives. As much for curiosity's sake as to see if it really did make a difference with media. It does, well, it did in my case.

[rebarlow]

I'm not trying to hijack the topic, but a warning to all who burn- especially cheap media. At first I used the authoring programs to burn, saving a step, but authoring programs typically don't have provision for data verification after a burn.

It's best to use the authoring program to create the DVD files on disk and then use a burning program with data verification (such as Nero ((I know there are problems with some releases of Nero))).

This certainly will help to avoid replay problems at the end of large disks. Unfortunately, it can't stop deterioration of disks. Right now I'm transferring from cheapo media that worked fine at first over to Riteks.

Good luck.

[gmatov]

Maybe the best would be to get "inexpensive" media, rather than "cheap" media.

I mean to buy a branded disk at sale prices, rather than something under a reseller's name.

Would appear to me, Maxell, Taiyo, Fuji, et al, would exert some control over quality of disks sold with their wrapper. With the exception of some that some here consider to be inferior, Memorex and such, to some.

Personally, I buy none at regular price, and some at sale price are too expensive, to me, so don't use them, either.

Data verification would be great, if it could verify BEFORE the burn that the burn would be perfect. AFTER, all it does is tell you that the burn WAS good or bad. So, what does it help? Keep you from trying to play, only to find out it is bad or good? Even verification is not going to correct a bad rip/convert. If you burn 4 gig of gibberish, it may burn the gibberish bit for bit perfectly, but still is gibberish.

If they are already corrupt at the end of disk, copying to "good" media will not make a good disk.

BTW, at the store again yesterday, not one of the 30-40 packages on the shelves says "Made in Japan", all Taiwan, except Imation 50 pack, NO origion on it at all, all 6 sidea of box. No Fuji Japan, either.

So, where do we buy them? Online, read the wrapper when they come in, send them back?

Cheers,

George

[rebarlow]

Data verification would be great, if it could verify BEFORE the burn that the burn would be perfect. AFTER, all it does is tell you that the burn WAS good or bad. So, what does it help? Keep you from trying to play, only to find out it is bad or good? Even verification is not going to correct a bad rip/convert. If you burn 4 gig of gibberish, it may burn the gibberish bit for bit perfectly, but still is gibberish.

If they are already corrupt at the end of disk, copying to "good" media will not make a good disk.

I'm not strictly speaking about ripping. Obviously GIGO. Most of my burns are from captures. To me, verification is mandatory to assure the burn is accurate. If you remember, the topic here is media. If you're ripping from a disk with gibberish, you know the result will be gibberish.

Perhaps the best "data verification" for you would be to view the end of the video files on you HD before trying to burn.

[gmatov]

Rebarlow,

You are missing my point.

If you play the file from your HDD, it will probably play on your PC. It has been stated time and again the DVD-ROM, or that duty of your burner is quite forgiving, with ECC, etc.

So, you burn, verify that it is a perfect burn, pop it in your standalone, "No Disk"

So it is, for your intent and purpose, gibberish, but accurate to the last bit.

I have had Nero tell me "Burn Process Failed", taken the disk out, pop it in the player and it worked perfectly. Go figure.

I have also had it tell me "Burn Process Completed Successfully", ditto, did not play. Go figure.

A data burn must be bit for bit perfect, in many instances, most, I'd guess. I have one bad setup file on my Office disk that never copies one .dll, but I have it backed up, just insert into the folder.

But other program files, I'm sure, refuse to run, or even, as a Zip file, refuse to unzip, and tell you there is corruption.

A DVD video can correct a given amount of bad data and be fine.

And, by video, I don't care whether it is a capture, a DVD rip, or if you hand coded the 4 gigabyte movie, verifying that the burn is good does not mean that the file is good, just that you have an exact, or very close copy of that file.

Cheers,

George

[mikey388]

This certainly will help to avoid replay problems at the end of large disks. Unfortunately, it can't stop deterioration of disks. Right now I'm transferring from cheapo media that worked fine at first over to Riteks.

Good luck.

Does this mean that cheap discs deteriate over time or through continued use.I thought the beauty of dvd and cd was that quality stayed constant.

[mabos22]

During playback on my stand alone of a backed up DVD or indeed a converted avi file using temeg etc It tends to freeze or go blocky but a small 4 seconds or so rewind then play it is fine again but only to happen 5 mins later. Is this a fault of cheap media that would be remidied by buying say ritek media? because recently i have come to the conclusion that dvd writers do not work!
Any comments greatfully recieved.
cheers.

[Capmaster]

This certainly will help to avoid replay problems at the end of large disks. Unfortunately, it can't stop deterioration of disks. Right now I'm transferring from cheapo media that worked fine at first over to Riteks.

Good luck.

Does this mean that cheap discs deteriate over time or through continued use.I thought the beauty of dvd and cd was that quality stayed constant.

It is. I've seen innuendo and rumor that certain brands fade over time, yet when I research it everything I've found says that with recordable dye once it burns good that it'll most likely stay good for a long time. The beauty of DVD (and CD) is that to read it you don't need to degrade it like with phonographs or magnetic tape ...just shine a low-power laser on it and read the reflection

[rebarlow]

[It is. I've seen innuendo and rumor that certain brands fade over time, yet when I research it everything I've found says that with recordable dye once it burns good that it'll most likely stay good for a long time. The beauty of DVD (and CD) is that to read it you don't need to degrade it like with phonographs or magnetic tape ...just shine a low-power laser on it and read the reflection :)

That does seem to be a problem with cheap media. There have been many posts about disks that won't play six months after recording. Unfortunately, I'm finding that out. Videos I have captured and recorded to DVD all played perfectly at first. Now, although they have been stored in cases under indoor climate control, some of the disks no longer play without glitches. Ripping these disks back to HDD stalled on the last VOB, but eventually could be ripped after multiple CRC errors (had to use the DVD in my laptop).

I also have CDR's that I've kept in my car that are no longer playable. Some of my 6+ year old CD's stored inside have glitches, though that could be the result of the poor burner I started out with.

My point is that if you think DVDR's represent archival storage, then you are risking your data. Certainly they protect you from loss from malicious viruses since they can't be recorded over, but the longevity of the media is in question. From the forums, the cheapo disks are more likely to degrade.

[Roderz]

on the verify subject I have had Nero tell me "data verifycation Process Failed", but when tested with other tools (WinHex, Beyond Compare 2) the files on disc were identical bit for bit to the files on HD!

also had "data verifycation Process Failed" and when tested with with other tools there was 385 differences (at very end of vob1_3) but the disc played perfect on standalone

So I'd rather trust WinHex rather than Nero...............

[rebarlow]

[It is. I've seen innuendo and rumor that certain brands fade over time, yet when I research it everything I've found says that with recordable dye once it burns good that it'll most likely stay good for a long time. The beauty of DVD (and CD) is that to read it you don't need to degrade it like with phonographs or magnetic tape ...just shine a low-power laser on it and read the reflection :)

That does seem to be a problem with cheap media. There have been many posts about disks that won't play six months after recording. Unfortunately, I'm finding that out. Videos I have captured and recorded to DVD all played perfectly at first. Now, although they have been stored in cases under indoor climate control, some of the disks no longer play without glitches. Ripping these disks back to HDD stalled on the last VOB, but eventually could be ripped after multiple CRC errors (had to use the DVD in my laptop).

I also have CDR's that I've kept in my car that are no longer playable. Some of my 6+ year old CD's stored inside have glitches, though that could be the result of the poor burner I started out with.

My point is that if you think DVDR's represent archival storage, then you are risking your data. Certainly they protect you from loss from malicious viruses since they can't be recorded over, but the longevity of the media is in question. From the forums, the cheapo disks are more likely to degrade.

[rebarlow]

Sorry- i have NO idea how my reply got double posted.

[gmatov]

This whole schmear is getting ridiculous.

I post that there is no guarantee that a disk will last 100 years, since the mfgs say they have a virgin, unburnt shelf life of 7 years, I get replies that the dyes go unstabele, if they were burnt, they would last forever.

Now, here, we get, if they were burnt, they will die, with an "i", in anything from 24 hours to infinity.

They are NOT archival, they are going to die.

And I do not give a damn if you pay 50 cents per, or 7 bucks per, they are going to die.

Everybody is saying beware this or that, but 50 % of the posters say they are having no problem whatsoever with thi or that, and the other 50 % is saying you are using garbage.

Somebody is full of shit here, or there is a hell of a lot of difference in the machine, the program, the cap/rip/conversion. I am using crap media, and decent media. I have no problems. I have run through Kprobe and Nero, and CDR info pro, and find the errors are way, way, less than the examples on DVDRW site, or elsewhere. The g'damned things play.

What the hell do you guys want? You will probably not ever get a perfect copy, as the copy program is f'd up, cannot keep up with the movie.

But you will dis a disk because it does not meet YOUR standards? Some of you gotta grow up, and those grownups here gotta stop being sheep.

Cheers,

George

[rebarlow]

This whole schmear is getting ridiculous.

But you will dis a disk because it does not meet YOUR standards? Some of you gotta grow up, and those grownups here gotta stop being sheep.

Do disks that become unreadable within 6 months meet your standards?

[Capmaster]

The g'damned things play.

George speaks the truth. I've got proof.
My collection as of a couple months ago:

There are actually close to 2,000 DVDs there, almost all of which are Princo white-top 1X DVD-R, about as cheap as media gets. The ages of the burned discs range from 2 years old to new. All have been reviewed in the last 6 months.

Number of failures occurring after I've gotten a good burn and verified it by watching (or at least fast-forward reviewing):
0 Zero
NADA
El Zippo
Negatory
Absence of the bad
Negative, Will Robinson
Nuttin, honey
Ain't gonna happen (Dana Carvey's GHWBush)

Every one I've scanned with DVDInfo Pro shows no read errors.

Someone is blowing smoke up someone's skirt with a hoax, or their burner has fornicated the canine and gave marginal burns, or they really got some shitty dumpster-grade coasters from Guatemala for a nickle each, and now they're blaming all inexpensive media.

Go to Lordsmurf's nice web site and down the first page is a section about "Why discs go bad":

http://www.nomorecoasters.com

He explains that it is highly unlikely for a disc to "fade" or go bad assuming a successful burn has been made initially.

[Jumbo_Holden]

My collection as of a couple months ago:

What's on them all??? Forgive me im nosey

[Capmaster]

My collection as of a couple months ago:

What's on them all??? Forgive me im nosey

Many many movies that were originally on VHS. My VHS collection started in the early '80s. I have a huge 3-ring binder with all the movies I have because there's no way I could remember them all. The movies are shelved alphabetically.

Also TV series sets (also VHS) like Dark Shadows, Star Trek TNG, a few others. And DVD set backups like Married With Children (in progress). I have a closet filled with tapes now that I'm only keeping to stay legal. I still have over 100 Star Trek TNG episodes to cap and burn.

I also have several hundred commercial movie DVD backups. There again, the store-bought copy gets DVDShrunk, then the original goes into the closet.

[indolikaa]

Also TV series sets (also VHS) like Dark Shadows, Star Trek TNG, a few others. And DVD set backups like Married With Children (in progress). I have a closet filled with tapes now that I'm only keeping to stay legal. I still have over 100 Star Trek TNG episodes to cap and burn.

You will be offering these for download, won't you? :P

[Capmaster]

Also TV series sets (also VHS) like Dark Shadows, Star Trek TNG, a few others. And DVD set backups like Married With Children (in progress). I have a closet filled with tapes now that I'm only keeping to stay legal. I still have over 100 Star Trek TNG episodes to cap and burn.

You will be offering these for download, won't you? :P

Of course. What's your pleasure ...Divx? Xvid? MJPEG?

[indolikaa]

I was thinking more along the lines of ISO images?


I already told Santa I want the whole ST:TNG collection on DVD this Christmas. No use dicking around with satellite, it would almost be sacreligious otherwise.

[Capmaster]

I was thinking more along the lines of ISO images?


I already told Santa I want the whole ST:TNG collection on DVD this Christmas. No use dicking around with satellite, it would almost be sacreligious otherwise.

ISO images? Don't tell me ....you have 28.8 dialup, right?

I hope to get all of DS9 on DVD and then only have to shrink/burn backups.

I'm capping all the TNG tapes at 7Mbps avg. and they're coming out real good. That gives me 2 episodes per disc at 45 minutes each.

[indolikaa]

Dial-up. How quaint.


I am a 1.5 Mb DSL whore. And when I'm really feelin' the love, I open up both routers for business.

[Capmaster]

Dial-up. How quaint.


I am a 1.5 Mb DSL whore. And when I'm really feelin' the love, I open up both routers for business.

Translation: "When I've found good midget clown porn I open up both routers for business"

[Nilfennasion]

My old man wants to back up his home video collection on DVD-R, but I have no idea how he's going to get it done.