DV to archiving?

[joonas]

Hi

I have just bought a DV camera and I was thinking of filming at parties and so on, and then I would of course like to keep all the material and I was wondering wich is the best way to do it...

Is it to convert i to a different format than avi, (I realize it will decrease in quality)

But really, wich is the best format to use to give maximum quality in the least amount of space?

[Richard_G]

Your best bet to reduce the file size but keep the quality would be to save as DVD format mpeg2. If you kept full frame (NTSC 720 x 480, PAL 720 x 576) and keep the bitrate high (8 - 9 Mbs), you'll use about 4 Gb per hour compared with 13 Gb per hour for DV avi and there should be no noticable loss in quality.

[MpegEncoder]

Are you talking about a computer disk of some kind? If so, DVD is probably your best bet. Otherwise, the tape is the best.

[wwaag]

joonas

First, you need to decide if at some point in time you want to edit your footage. If so, then forget archiving to MPEG. Although it saves some space, it is NOT a good format for editing--even simple cuts editing is often a problem as evidenced by this forum. Furthermore, there is ALWAYS a noticeable loss of quality. If editing and a loss of quality are unimportant then archiving in MPEG-2 is OK.

Assuming however that quality is important and that you probably do want to edit your raw footage at some point in the future, then keeping it in DV format is IMHO the way to go.

Here's my approach although it takes a bit of time. For each tape, I first do simple cuts editing to eliminate the "bad" parts (out of focus, camera left on, etc.). I then output the remaining original footage into "meaningful" clips for archiving. First, I save these to another DV tape which enables you to "watch" your footage without loss of quality and the "bad" parts removed. Second, I write these AVI files to DVD. It takes 3 DVDs for an hour-long DV tape--actually you can write about 20' 40" of video to each DVD. This serves as additional backup and also a more conventient way to do future editing, especially if you want to combine clips from various tapes. Since good quality DVDs can be found for under $1, the DVD archiving is actually less costly than another DV tape and is certainly more convenient for future editing.

In any case, it all depends upon what you want to do with your footage.

Just my nickel's worth.

wwaag

[PIntag]

First of all, DV is already a compressed video format (about 4 or 5 to 1) that is suitable for editing (unlike MPEG2 for example). If you are archiving for backup purposes, it is probably not a good idea to further compress it.

In my mind, the best thing to do is to keep the tape itself as the original source and make a backup to another DV tape. As previously mentioned, it would take 3 4.7GB blank DVDs to back up one tape, which is pretty inconvenient and a PITA, if you ask me. It's highly likely that there will be a mainstream, very-high capacity optical disk format (BlueRay maybe?) available in the near future. Since the DV tapes should be OK for 10 or 15 years, I'd wait until then to back them up to disk.

[MpegEncoder]

Pretty well put PIntag

I think people forget (or maybe just don't know) that a single DV tape is a 13Gig storage device. There's no DVD that can hold that.

So the choice for 100% quality archives (if you want to call it that) is either:
1) Another tape
2) Your hard drive
3) Multiple DVD data disks

Take your pick

[BSR]

Hi
But really, wich is the best format to use to give maximum quality in the least amount of space?

It all depends on how much quality and how much space you want to put it in.

Me personally, I keep all my DV tapes and when a higher capacity optical media comes out, then I'll probably move them over to that.

From the sounds of it, you know it will decrease in quality and if you don't really plan on doing any editing in the future, transferring your videos to DVD with a Very High bitrate should sufice.

[Will Hay]

Personally I edit all my footage, create my final DVD's and then archive the edited mpeg2 file to DVD-r.
Your alternative is to keep buying large HDD's and store un-edited 13gb/hr footage on there but boy this is expensive.
You could also save the MiniDV tapes.
Will

[joonas]

Thanks guys for all the answers...

I'm still affraid that I will record alot of film on me and my friends and then I will probably want to cut it all together efter maby a year. So keeping it all in full DV quality will become quite expencive in the long run...

[PIntag]

Thanks guys for all the answers...

I'm still affraid that I will record alot of film on me and my friends and then I will probably want to cut it all together efter maby a year. So keeping it all in full DV quality will become quite expencive in the long run...

How expensive is it to simply keep the original DV tapes? Unless you take an ungodly amount of footage, it really shouldn't be too expensive. If it is, then you've picked yourself the wrong hobby...

[tag]

I'm still affraid that I will record alot of film on me and my friends and then I will probably want to cut it all together efter maby a year.

PIntag's right; save the original tapes. There really isn't a cheaper, full-quality, no-hassle, storage option at this time.

If you really plan to shoot a lot of stuff, you can buy miniDV tapes in bulk (100 lots) for well under 3 bucks each. At those prices, you're getting close to what it would cost to archive one tape on 3 DVDs.

As I write this, I'm getting severely nauseated at the thought of shooting countless hours of video over a one year period and then trying to "cut it all together". You might want to think about doing some cutting as you go along.

[flaninacupboard]

It would be nice if you could buy a DV tape drive you just connect to your firewre port. ghost of your hard drive on a £2 tape in an hour, done. lovely.

Still don't understand why full size DV didn't replace VHS. if we were all "ready" for DVD, surely we would have gone for DV if it had been marketed in that way?

just a thought...

[tag]

Hell, I'd settle for a small, reasonably priced miniDV tape deck but, thus far, I've only seen two; a Go Video and a JVC. Both are miniDV+VHS decks and neither one is small nor reasonably priced ($800 and up).

So what's with that, anyway? I mean, it's cheaper to buy a second miniDV camcorder to use exclusively for playback. But a deck wouldn't need to have an LCD, viewfinder, CCD, lens, etc. Totally nuts!

[wwaag]

Sony also makes a couple of mini-dv decks (no vhs), but they are in the same price range.

I use a Sony GV-D200 Digital8 deck which cost me about $500 a couple of years ago which I really like. In addition to Digital8 (which I actually don't have a camcorder in that format), it also plays back and converts 8mm/Hi8 with TBC to DV which is great since I have a large collection of old analog videos. I also use it for archiving my newer mini-DV tapes as well. DV is DV regardless of whether recorded on a mini-DV or Digital8 tape. Even though somewhat expensive, I consider it money well-spent.

wwaag

[tag]

That looks like a nice deck and, believe it or not, it doesn't appear as if you've lost money on that deal (list is $699.99 and it's still selling for over $500).

However, you said you bought it a couple of years ago and, although I don't recall exactly, I doubt you could pick up a digital camcorder for less than what you paid for your GV-D200. Today, though, it would be difficult to justify spending $500 on a deck when the likes of BB and CC are selling (low-end) miniDV camcorders for slightly more than $300.

I still can't believe these manufacturers couldn't make money selling a simple miniDV deck for something like $150 or so.

[joonas]

Hi guys!

I must say that I hadn't realize how cheap the DV tapes where. I had seen them for about 110 SEK (10$) but them when I looked around some I could easily find them for about 30 SEK (2,5$) each...

So I guess that must be the best way to do It, Thanks for all your help...