Borrowing Backups

[Kingnog]

Just wondering...I know its legal to make a backup copy of a movie you own. But can you lend out the backup copy to your friend who wants to watch the movie? Wouldnt that be like lending out the original? I read somewhere that you cant...why not?

[johns0]

You can borrow it but not keep it or make any copies out of it,lending a dvd backup is to me protecting your original in case your friend breaks or scratches it.

[richdvd]

You can borrow it but not keep it or make any copies out of it

This sounds like a pretty grey area to me, if it ever came down to legal issues

[johns0]

Im speaking more on terms of whats ethically right,lending a backup is better than lending the original as long as the backup is returned and not copied.

[hhhhbk]

illegal but not a serious offence
your not selling it
and i cant see how you could possibly get caught for it

the majority of people who back up a dvd in the first place do so because they either have borrowed/rented the original or have bought the original and plan to sell the original on ebay after copying it
dvds are hard to break so backing up incase of damage to the original disk is a pretty lame reason

i would expect it to be most shops policy to replace a disk that no longer worked(never happened to me)

[andyp1]

I understood that it was only legal to make a backup if the backup and original were kept together (or at least at the same address)

There again everything is legal unless you get caught.

dvds are hard to break so backing up incase of damage to the original disk is a pretty lame reason

It sounds like you don't have kids.

[FOO]

If I lend a movie to a friend , they may not buy it.
This will reduce the revenues of the MPAA
therefore if they have their way , it will be illegal.

Soon there will be laws preventing me from showing paintings to my
neighbors. They will have to fork over a dollar to the artist to come in
my house unless I cover the painting up. If they remove the sheet covering the painting , they will be busted for breaking encryption.

[jimmalenko]

Just wondering...I know its legal to make a backup copy of a movie you own. But can you lend out the backup copy to your friend who wants to watch the movie? Wouldnt that be like lending out the original? I read somewhere that you cant...why not?

I would imagine it would be like lending out the original. Why don't you hire a lawyer just to be sure though ?

[PhreakPhish]

I work at a Court House as a student worker and asked my boss if it was legal to make a backup copy of a movie you rent from blockbuster and he told me yes. But I don’t think he knows what he is talking about. He told me since I actually was the "owner" of the movie I could do whatever I wanted with it. Because when you rent you are temporarily the owner of that product and take all responsibilities of it.
Just thought I would throw that in there.
For the original question I don't know if it legal or not, but I don't see the big deal unless they copy it again.

[puertorican138]

Soon there will be laws preventing me from showing paintings to my
neighbors. They will have to fork over a dollar to the artist to come in
my house unless I cover the painting up. If they remove the sheet covering the painting , they will be busted for breaking encryption.

LOL!!! 8)

[proxyx99]

I work at a Court House as a student worker and asked my boss if it was legal to make a backup copy of a movie you rent from blockbuster and he told me yes. But I don’t think he knows what he is talking about. He told me since I actually was the "owner" of the movie I could do whatever I wanted with it. Because when you rent you are temporarily the owner of that product and take all responsibilities of it.
Just thought I would throw that in there.
For the original question I don't know if it legal or not, but I don't see the big deal unless they copy it again.

I doubt if borrowing the movie gives you any "ownership rights" even temporarily. You are more of a "custodian" and all ownership rights are still with Blockbuster. Especially that your agreement with blocbuster is limited to rental. There was never an offer to sell so how could you have possibly bought it? Your boss is right that you have responsibilities but no rights other then specified in the rental contract. Lending a copy would also be considered illegal as the primary function of backup is to serve the owner at his location or wherever the originals are stored.

[fmctm1sw]

I work at a Court House as a student worker and asked my boss...

But I don’t think he knows what he is talking about.

That's not good....

[proxyx99]

...but serves as good example and testament to usuall boss'es competency.

[Tommyknocker]

What does his boss do? Maybe he is Chief Justice William Rehnquist, and the "court house" is the U.S. Supreme Court. Sure would answer the age-old question why no one has been charged with making a backup of of a DVD he bought legeally. His boss would probably laugh the MPAA out of his court saying, "Not only is it legal to copy a DVD you own, you can copy one you rent as well, in order to protect the original from damage. This falls under fair use, so close the door on your way out, Mr. Valente."

[tyders]

My understanding of the situation is that backing up any dvd that means you need to bypass/break an encryption is illegal.

I dont think it matters if its rented or owned as the act of breaking the encryption itself is an illegal act (at least i belive thats the case in the UK).

If you have a dupolicated dvd and want to copy it then that is also illegal as the duplicated version you have is an illegal copy i.e. copying an illegal copy means you still have an illegal copy even though you didnt break any encryption.

Saying all that if people want to make backup copies of their own collection for safty reasons (example: your brother always scratches the dvds) then even though it is illegal I would assume it is the lowest end of the illegal scale (if there is such a thing!).

The thing is if you think you are going to like a dvd then buy it - its expensive but with the internet you can get cheap dvds (see ebay!). Also boxsets and the like look sweet on the shelf!

Just my thoughts this sunday morning

[Tommyknocker]

I think Valente has joined the forum.

[tyders]

I think Valente has joined the forum.

Huh? Sorry - im lost on that comment.

[Tommyknocker]

Sorry, the president of the MPAA who thinks we should not copy to protect our originals, we should jusr buy two originals. Which of course, would be great if we had his income.

[tyders]

Oh, I see.

Dont get me wrong I do not agree with the laws as they stand but I wouldnt want anyone to go away thinking its OK to copy dvds as if they get busted - thats why I posted.

Also if they brought the cost of dvd's down then they wouldnt have a problem - of course some people will still copy stuff but if all new release dvds were £10 each max. then they would no doubt sell more and piracy of shop released dvds would not be much of an issue.

[Kingnog]

Wow, I definitely didnt expect this many replies!

Anyway, my own opinion is that it is perfectly legal. IMO, its like giving out a VHS to somebody. Why werent so many people going crazy about legal issues before DVD's when VHS was the main format? I mean...DVD and VHS = same thing as far as the 'movie people' are concerned, right? So why is it "ok" to give a VHS to somebody, but not a DVD? And if its not "ok", then why didnt so many people discuss the legal issues of lending a VHS to somebody? The whole thing sounds crazy to me.

^ If that didnt make any sense..tell me

[richdvd]

Why werent so many people going crazy about legal issues before DVD's when VHS was the main format? I mean...DVD and VHS = same thing as far as the 'movie people' are concerned, right?

DVD to DVD copying = no quality loss (on a PC burner), much faster transfer rate, lots of free software for burning and ripping.

VHS to VHS = large quality loss, long transfer time, VHS tapes were pretty expensive at one point.

I didn't do much VHS copying, but wasn't it hard to get around the Macrovision protection, back in the day? Not arguing with anyone here, just bringing up a few points.

[F1118]

My opinion on the whole matter is rent, borrow, and copy as much as you can. If you copy every single dvd you rent or borrow from friends your not going to get caught so who cares. The video store is never going to know you made a backup of what you rented and surely your friends aren't going to run out and tell the world you copied their entire dvd collection.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.

You have the right to express your opinions freely but if you post them
here you must first abide by the rules - you knew this! I'm sorry but
I have no choice but to flag you.
/ Moderator offline

[Noek]

My understanding of the situation is that backing up any dvd that means you need to bypass/break an encryption is illegal.

Actually, it should be illegal for the recording companies to encrypt media that I have purchased the rights to, preventing me from backing up.

How are they going to tell me it's legal to backup my VHS tapes that I own, then go and encrypt my DVD's and tell me it's illegal to break that encryption for backup purposes. I'm sorry, but I smell a big double standard if that is true.

[F1118]

tyders wrote:
My understanding of the situation is that backing up any dvd that means you need to bypass/break an encryption is illegal.


If your that worried about it than use DVDXCOPY which does not break the encryption.

[Noek]

DVDXCopy does break the encryption, and they lost their court battle over it which is why they are pulling it off shelves.

"One week after a California court ruled that DVD XCopy violates the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), 321 Studios removed the ripping engine from its popular DVD copying application.Ripper-free versions of the product, renamed DVD XCopy Xpress RF and DVD XCopy Platinum RF, are already available from the company's Web site. Although these versions can't rip data off copy-protected DVDs, they can still duplicate data from DVDs that lack copy protection, compress the data, and move it to blank disks."

[F1118]

I thought that used to be the big thing about DVDXCOPY ... Didn't they always say that was the one thing that made their software legal, because it copied the encryption rather than breaking it?

On another note ... why anyone really cares about breaking copyright laws for their own personal use is beyond me. Do it, enjoy it, and steal every penny from the movie industry as you can. If they can charge twenty dollars for a dvd or 8 bucks to go watch a movie in the theater than they can afford the effects of piracy. Piracy in my opinion balances everything out. It keeps them from making too much money and it saves the general population money at the same time. Same for the music industry.

[jimmalenko]

Do it, enjoy it, and steal every penny from the movie industry as you can. If they can charge twenty dollars for a dvd or 8 bucks to go watch a movie in the theater than they can afford the effects of piracy. Piracy in my opinion balances everything out. It keeps them from making too much money and it saves the general population money at the same time. Same for the music industry.

Dude, I reckon the mods might crack down on you for advocating piracy.

[Noek]

The DMCA never really specified a concise rule rearding this. The only thing that made it legal before was that it was one of those "gray" areas in that backing up your media is by all means legal, but is decrypting encryption codes on media? Even though there is an appeal in the process, the courts ruled it wasn't /boggle

[hhhhbk]

discuss our forum rules somewhere else / Baldrick

[F1118]

LOL - I guess we have the freedom to express our opinion's ... Just not on this board.