Best Method for capturing TV?

[geepondy]

Hi,

Right now my method of capturing TV is with a winfast video card and using the composite video and audio signals from a VCR which has a regular coax cable input. I input the video/audio out in composite form from the VCR to the PC video card and use the winfast PVR software. The card does not have a tv tuner input so I use the VCR for channel selection. Do the following options produce better quality? One is using a video card with a TV tuner built in such as an all in wonder pro. I am wondering if this might be better because you can hook the cable input straight into the card and perhaps it would pick a better video format then the VCR composite video out? If this produces better TV video capture then I am considering purchasing an all in wonder pro 9800 as it will provide a computer video card upgrade at the same time. Another possibility is buying a separate DVD recorder as I see there is a Lite-on model available at CompUSA for less then $300.

I would appreciate any and all quick responses as I would like to capture the super bowl and the record to a DVD.

[budz]

geepondy wrote:

I would appreciate any and all quick responses as I would like to capture the super bowl and the record to a DVD.

Ummmm aren't you asking a little late cause the superbowl is tomorrow. Tomorrow for me cause I lag in the timezones.
I was going to suggest getting the CANOPUS ADVC-100 but then you wanna capture the superbowl so that's out of the question. I like the CANOPUS because from my newbie experience I haven't had any dropped frames or sync issues using it.

Try checking www.lordsmurf.com for information you need.

[FulciLives]

I'm not sure about the ATI cards but most capture cards that have a TUNER have a TUNER that sucks donkey balls.

For that reason most people do what you do ... input the cable into their Hi-Fi Stereo VCR then pass it to the capture card using the composite video and RCA stereo out jacks.

There is nothing wrong with your method.

Although please note that most cable or satelite converter boxes now have composite and often times S-Video output so you can use that instead of a VCR but then you have to either buy an extra receiver or rent an extra one. So if you get all the channels you want through the VCR without using your cable box then you are doing A-OK unless you want to spend money for no real good reason.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SaSi]

I have been doing exactly what you are suggesting for almost 2 years. With an increasing rate of success, I must add, as I learned along the way.

Capturing from the video out of a VCR is good, since most descent VCRs have a good tuner.

The main issue with capture cards is which software to use, which drivers to use and which codec. Also, how much CPU power they need to capture without dropped frames.

Older cards have drivers that rely on VFW (Video for Windows) technology. I'v never been able to properly capture at frame rates beyond 20fps for a full PAL resolution with these.

Newest cards and s/w use WDM technology and overlay capture, which is much smoother and efficient. I've been using this with my ASUS 9180 vivo and VirtualDUB or Mainconcept to capture to AVI. I use huffyuv codec for lossless capture and subsequent editing.

Works fine provided you have large disk to spare and fast CPU (P4>2GHz). You must not touch the PC while capturing, or you will get dropped frames. I get something like 5-7 dropped frames per hour, something that one can live with.

On the other hand, I just bought a Pinnacle PCTV Deluxe USB2 device. The tuner is really good, at least as good as my $800 Panasonic NV-HS960 SVHS VCR. It can capture TV, SVIDEO and composite with realtime MPEG 1 or 2 encoding at bitrates up to 15Mbps through the USB2 port.

It works wonders. I capture at 12Mbps, edit out unwanted material using VirtualDUB MPEG and then re-encode the result into 4800VBR MPEG2 for DVD Authoring. Capture image and sound quality is excellent.

The CPU utilization is remarkably low (5-7% only) and I'v succesfully used it with a P2/333 USB1.1 to view TV. I've succesfully captured TV on a P3/1000 via USB2.

Not saying that the Pinnacle is the only or best product out there, but certainly this capture method is really worth investigating.

[geepondy]

Thanks for the advice so far. It sounds like I'm probably best off the way I am. It is regular cable, not digital cable and I don't have a converter box with Svideo or other types of video out. The video card is a Leadtek (forget the model) Geforce Ti4200 with obviously some sort of VIVO circuitry. As mentioned, I currently have been using the winfast PVR software that came with it, although updated to latest version from their web site. I've never used anything else but it seems OK. I get several video capture options including different quality mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 settings. I see that it does use WDM drivers.

The reason I posed the original question is that it seems the captured video quality is never as good as I originally see it on TV. The dynamic range from darks to whites without being washed out is less and it is more noisier. I have two vcrs, just regular stereo models, from Toshiba and Panasonic and I can't tell much of a difference from using either one. Capturing from VCR tape is even worse. I wondering if the Pinnacle USB2 solution mentioned here might improved quality but it is not available for pick up at the local CompUSA although it is available on their web site.

[beamguy]

A new capture card could likely give you better capture quality.

But - I have three, two new 10-bit cards and one very old card, and none have a tuner that can match the quality of my $60 VCR. There is quite often noise in the pictures, and on the lower channels there are diaggonal lines that come from the interference of the broadcast and cable signals.

[Spectra]

I've had my share of capture cards thus far. A K-World, a MSI TV@anywhere and now a ATI 9000 Pro All-In-Wonder. Having dealt with buggy software and drivers and all sorts of problems with the first two. I have been instantly pleased with the AIW. Lord Smurf and others convinced me to make the jump and I couldn't be happier. The ease of use and trouble free operation for me has been an instant relief. Just check out the many guides here on this site.

I bought mine off ebay for way less than any store around here. The other cards are off to Good Will.

[Admiral Falcon]

Capturing from the video out of a VCR is good, since most descent VCRs have a good tuner.

I tried this and I didn't notice much of a change. Tried it with both coax and composite, but perhaps I'm looking at a different symptom.

For a year now, I've had this problem while capturing some video (especially older programs, i.e. I Love Lucy and Get Smart) and animations (older episodes of The Simpsons): The lines in the picture will 'jump' up and down at a regular interval (usually every 15-20 frames), rendering the captured video utterly unwatchable. This is especially prominent in animated scenes with many horizontal lines in the image. I don't have any idea what is actually causing this problem, nor how to fix it. I tried a new capture card, and it didn't work. I thought it might be my cable TV, but pulling the same show in off of antenna causes the same problem. I tried going to WDM drivers with no effect. I tried going through composite instead of coax, and through a VCR, to no effect.

Apparently it's a problem in the signal itself that is somehow fixed by a cable box (as I have seen one particular episode of the Simpsons that captured perfectly two years ago through a cable box that now exhibits this problem on my cable-box-less computer). This is reinforced by the fact that while watching "Animal House" on a standard TV, I saw the same 'line-jumping' problem during the hearing scene; the stairs in the center of the frame would have borders that would jumped slightly at a regular interval.

Additionally, I sometimes see a line of what looks like static at the top of my frame when I capture in 352x240, but it goes away in ***x480.

Any ideas as to what is causing the signal problems, or how to fix them? I haven't gotten any answer on this in the past year, despite several requests.

[geepondy]

Hi Admiral,

I'm a newbie myself but if you have the time, you might want to consider browsing the Capture Cards section and reading the reviews or trying a search if it is possible. I was there tonight and many people in their reviews of the various cards were explaining the problems they had and in many cases the solutions that solved. Alas I cannot recall if you exact situation was covered but it does seem I read on one of them something about "jumpy" or "jittery" video. I can't remember which card or review but probably it was on the first or second page. If I visit and come across it again, I'll post it.

[indolikaa]

The captures I've tried with my ATI AIW 9000 Pro through the coaxial input are fine.

I did try them (once) from a Cable TV signal on both a local broadcast network and ESPN, and I use the same connection (sometimes) from my satellite receivers.

Additionally, I sometimes see a line of what looks like static at the top of my frame when I capture in 352x240, but it goes away in ***x480.

Is this line on the captured material, or does it also show up on the final disc played into a television? It sounds like overscan...

And regarding problems with cartoons. Are you capturing interlaced and encoding your final product as interlaced?

[arklab]

OK, this is from what I've read, NOT done (yet)

The lines in the picture will 'jump' up and down at a regular interval (usually every 15-20 frames), rendering the captured video utterly unwatchable.

Check out http://www.LordSmurf.com
Go to the "Capture" section about "VCR's & TBC".
He explains exactly what you are experiencing, and how to fix it!

While there read the rest of the tutorials.
A fantastic place to start!

(P.S. I just installed a AIW 9800Pro I picked up for $300 US. These ATI card prices are falling like rocks, as new core video cards are comming out real quick now.)

[geepondy]

Arklab, where did you buy AIW 9800 Pro in US for $300? I am thinking of going that way as it would kill two birds in one stone. From what I read in this site, I don't think my oiginal thread problem is so much the tuner as the capture card itself. I've read these winfast cards used a more cheap capture circuitry. I see the Canopus ADVC-100 gets good reviews but so does the AIW9800 Pro and if available for $300, the price difference is not that much. Still $400 at local compusa for the card.

[Admiral Falcon]

Thanks! It does appear to fit the description of a TBC error in the signals.

The catch is the cure looks to be worse than the disease: a $300 TBC unit. To me, the whole point of recording digitally is to not have to buy the $70/season DVD sets. $300 could easily pay for several of these.

I wonder if the cable box had a built-in TBC, because I know I never saw this problem occur while I was still had it.

[nelson133]

I use the Canopus AVDC100 and WinDV to capture TV to avi files on the hard drive and process it from there. Been doing it for a year with no problems. This is the easiest way imho and iI find the quality of the end product to be just fine. Nyah Levi

[yodel]

I use the Canopus AVDC100 and WinDV to capture TV to avi files on the hard drive and process it from there. Been doing it for a year with no problems. This is the easiest way imho and iI find the quality of the end product to be just fine. Nyah Levi

Yes, Geepondy, like Nelson133, i use, and also a happy user of the
ADVC100, great quality, no retouching needed afterwards, no sync
problems, and forum support on the Canopus site (when needed)
the ADVC100 has also a "cheat mode" to beat the Macrovision protection
in some pre-recorded tapes.
Or when you don't already have a digital video camera, buy one that has
the pass through function in it, (analog in)
Still have 8mm/Hi8 camera tapes? then buy a Digital8 camera..with the previous named functionality, (Macrovision is a no-go then)

[pippas]

Lets face it guys - capturing video is hairy! -We are dealing with data rates that even 3 years ago were only available for mega bucks!

IMHO you have to separate the machine from the capture - if you find a miracle card that promises a tuner, MPEG 2 encoder and stable software for about $60 - then the old adage is probably valid - it's too good to be true!

If you want to capture TV programs, and store them on DVD -buy a DVD recorder. If you want to capture something special to keep - use a card that does not require the computer to do the work - use a separate DV converter card (like the Canopus cards, or the Datavideo or AV PYro) and let them do the work - the computer will only require firewire transfer capability.

Then edit, reincode (not in real time) and burn to DVD etc...

There must be several hundred posts on this forum alone from people trying to download 'stable' drivers to try and get card 'X' to work with mobo 'A' -and OS 'B' and chipset 'C' ..... you get my drift.

I was lucky - I had a friend who had played these games, and he basically advised - if the video capture card requires 'drivers' you've got the wrong card!!

I'm sure others will disagree - just my 2 cents!

[yodel]

If you want to capture TV programs, and store them on DVD -buy a DVD recorder. !

I doubt that a little.. 4 hours on one DVD recorded, tv "broadcast" quality,
is equal to the quality recorded on a Super VHS (also 4 hours) ?