PVR-250 or alternatives (VHS to DVD)?

[sej7278]

I want to convert some VHS tapes and some live TV to DVD and would like a hardware MPEG2 encoder. The live TV would be fed through my VCR, so I don't really need a TV tuner, just SVHS-in.

I was looking at the USB2 solutions like the ConvertX, but can't find any real info about it.

Soooo, I'm looking for alternatives now, people have suggested the WinTV PVR350, but as I don't need video out and FM tuner, I guess I could save $50 and get a 250. Has anyone tried the USB2 version of that, or should I stick with the vanilla PCI?

Are there any other suggestions, I really want to spend no more than about $170 and will probably not be doing much editting (just cropping) so no AVI capture is not a huge issue, as most of my stuff with just be MPEG2.

I do not want an ATI AiW card - had that crap before.

People have also said to buy a digital camcorder with analog passthru and firewire card and then recode the DV to MPEG2, but that's going to tax my 1.6GHz PC too much I expect.

What software do you recommend - I've heard the stuff bundled with the WinTV's is trash. I have TMPEGEnc+ and Premiere 6 (running on WinXP Pro SP1).

[davideck]

I have been using a PVR-250 to capture my SVHS home videos. I author with Ulead DVD Movie Factory 2. The process is very reilable with excellent results...BUT... I found that a TBC was absolutely necessary. Live TV capture may work fine, but capturing VHS to a PVR-250 was problematic for me without a TBC.

[GKar]

My Dazzle DVC II does excellent VHS MPEG2 captures without Time Base Corrector. There is a registry fix available to eliminate audio/video sync problems. It worked for me, though I had no a/v sync problems with SAT TV captures just VHS captures, but they went away with the reg fix. You can get a Dazzle Digital Video Capture II for under a $100 on Ebay. The a/v sync fix is simple, edit one line in registry, which locks audio to video. This thing even does VBR captures too.

Check the Spawn site out for freeware capture utils and a/v sync fix. I use TWNH 1958 for capturing.

http://www.spawns.dk/svcd/

TmpGenc Author
Nero 5.5
DVDShrink

[Bob W]

Just buy a DVD recorder with built in TBC like the Panasonics. Does a better job of VHS to DVDR converting and in one fith the time IMO.

[spiderman2k1]

"GKar" I second that Dazzle 2 is great you can buy one at

http://www.shopharmony.com/

Dazzle 2 is good for cable satellite and laser disc but some time's is bad for VHS to DVD. If you want to do VHS to DVD get a ATI AIW and get a "Sima video copy master" and the Macrovision patch at www.doom9.org

Take my word I know I own two Dazzle 2 and two ATI AIW

[sej7278]

Wow I didn't think these hardware encoders had sync problems or dropped frames, jees what's the point if they're still crappy?!

I'll have a look at the Dazzle, although I don't like Pinnacle kits.

I'm not even considering All In Wonder.

The main thing I'm planning on using this for immediately is converting a VHS wedding tape and copying Star Wars from Laserdisc to DVD-R.

[GKar]

Wow I didn't think these hardware encoders had sync problems or dropped frames, jees what's the point if they're still crappy?!

I'll have a look at the Dazzle, although I don't like Pinnacle kits.

I'm not even considering All In Wonder.

The main thing I'm planning on using this for immediately is converting a VHS wedding tape and copying Star Wars from Laserdisc to DVD-R.

The Dazzle DVC II really works great for me. The main thing that troubles most people I believe is to make sure to assign it a unique IRQ and not share it with any other device. Also, you have to install Moviestar etc, that come with it but don't use Moviestar to capture, it is very inflexible. TWNH 1958 freeware for capturing is much better as it allows for timed recordings and file splitting for Fat32. The A/V sync problem (VHS only) with this card was due to the Dazzle folks not correctly configuring the drivers. Some smart cookie found the incorrect setting in the registry and made everyone including Dazzle aware of it. I guess the reason it only affected VHS captures was due to framedrop from the poor quality source signal that tapes usually provide.

[Coopervid]

I own a PVR-250 and I'm verry happy with it. Use Womble's MPEG-VCR for editing out commercials or trim the files. I also use either Ulead's DVD MovieFactory or now TMPG DVD Author. The quality is excellent. Only the software supplied with the PVR-250 is crap. Just use the software mentioned above. Had also no probs with backing up VHS tapes and didn't need a TBC. Even some StarWars movies that I own on tape worked great. Be aware that you have to use the NTFS file system with either W2K or XP as the software writes one huge MPEG file that can reach up to several GB. I don't record with the built-in tuner but feed the composite signal from my DISH receiver or VCR. This further improves the recording quality.

[spiderman2k1]

"GKar" IF the wedding tape's are in good shape you might not have any problem's. ATI is very good when you have old tape's. If you do not have problem's then the Dazzle 2 is fine. I did alot of VHS back up's and alot of stuff I bought from ebay old cartoon's some tape's as old as 20 year's and the ATI AIW does a great good. For every thing else I use the Dazzle 2 Laser Disc sattlelite dish you can not beat tis capture card.

[sej7278]

I own a PVR-250 and I'm verry happy with it. Use Womble's MPEG-VCR for editing out commercials or trim the files. I also use either Ulead's DVD MovieFactory or now TMPG DVD Author. The quality is excellent. Only the software supplied with the PVR-250 is crap. Just use the software mentioned above. Had also no probs with backing up VHS tapes and didn't need a TBC. Even some StarWars movies that I own on tape worked great. Be aware that you have to use the NTFS file system with either W2K or XP as the software writes one huge MPEG file that can reach up to several GB. I don't record with the built-in tuner but feed the composite signal from my DISH receiver or VCR. This further improves the recording quality.

Yeah, I'm XP so got a dedicated NTFS drive. I won't be using the tuner either, like you say just the feed from the VCR.

I'm pretty much ready to buy the PVR-250 as the Dazzles on eBay seem just as expensive with no warranty. I'll take a look at that software.

Cheers

[FulciLives]

I've done a lot of research and the Win TV PVR-250/350 do seem to be the best HARDWARE MPEG-1/MPEG-2 capture devices THAT don't cost an arm and a leg. For instance CANOPUS makes a card that is supposed to be great but currently it has one small bug that might be corrected by firmware if not a slightly newer version of the card will supposedly fix the problem but as good as it is (even with the small bug it currently has which I have faith will be fixed) it costs MSRP $500 USD !!!

Anyways ... back to the WinTV PVR-250/350 ...

Some have reported audio sync problems when editing but that seems to not be a problem when using Womble Multibmedia's MPEG2VCR for editing but that program is just over $100 USD

I've heard that most people do not have audio sync problems when using TMPGEnc DVD Author which does allow you to edit your MPEG-1/MPEG-2 video when you import it. So it sounds like you might not need MPEG2VCR afterall and TMPGEnc DVD Author is a very nice simple yet flexible enough DVD authoring package and it only costs about $70.00

So really all you need is the software that comes with the WinTV PVR-250/350 to capture and then TMPGEnc DVD Author and you should be all set.

I'm thinking of getting one myself for recording from TV.

Presently I capture with a TV tuner type card that captures to AVI and then I convert to MPEG-2 for DVD and that takes a long time using TMPGEnc or even the slightly faster but still slow CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER (aka CCE). However this method can often give you better quality but for simply recording stuff I want to watch later and then delete etc. I will probably get the WinTV PVR-350 (I want the TV out as my old Hollywood + MPEG Decoder card as shown me that such an output is better than ANY of the TV-out input on your computer type VIDEO card).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
I edited this post twice to add some stuff and fix a spelling error or two that I caught but I'm done editing it now

[sej7278]

I have TMPGEnc DVD Author (great app for easy DVD menus) and don't really want to spend $150 for hardware and then $120 for software on top.

I've actually just removed my Hollywood+ card as I found that the passthru couldn't keep up with the refresh rates of my Radeon 8500.

I think I'll give the PVR-250 and DVD Author a try.

[sej7278]

I'm trying to figure out which of my [similar] PC's to put this in, but am not sure what's the most important - CPU speed, disk speed, memory, chipset etc.

The two systems both have identical Maxtor UDMA133 8Mb buffer 7200rpm 80Gb drives in removable racks (so they can be swapped) and Windows XP Pro SP1.

Vader:
SiS chipset
1.67GHz Athlon XP
384Mb PC133 RAM
UDMA133 interface

Goliath:
VIA chipset
1.6GHz Athlon
512Mb PC133 RAM
UDMA100 interface
Pioneer A05 DVD burner

I'm kind of leaning towards Vader as it has a slightly faster processor and the faster disk access times and I've heard of problems with the VIA chipset and dropping frames, although Goliath has the DVD Burner.

Vader is also near to the VCR so wouldn't need long cables. The only thing bad about Vader is that it has less memory.....

[FulciLives]

I have TMPGEnc DVD Author (great app for easy DVD menus) and don't really want to spend $150 for hardware and then $120 for software on top.

I've actually just removed my Hollywood+ card as I found that the passthru couldn't keep up with the refresh rates of my Radeon 8500.

I think I'll give the PVR-250 and DVD Author a try.

I don't understand your comment. The only time the TV output on a video card CAN look better than say the output of the Hollywood + is if you are scaling the picture to something higher than 480i/480p but even then it requires so much work that it is a nightmare. Been there done that.

BTW the ATI RADEON 8500 series was a big blunder on ATI's part and the only bad product that they have made in a long while. If you do intend to use the TV-out of your video card you would be best served to upgrade to one of the ATI 9000 series cards. The 8500 had a lot of issues on the TV-out.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I'm trying to figure out which of my [similar] PC's to put this in, but am not sure what's the most important - CPU speed, disk speed, memory, chipset etc.

The two systems both have identical Maxtor UDMA133 8Mb buffer 7200rpm 80Gb drives in removable racks (so they can be swapped) and Windows XP Pro SP1.

Vader:
SiS chipset
1.67GHz Athlon XP
384Mb PC133 RAM
UDMA133 interface

Goliath:
VIA chipset
1.6GHz Athlon
512Mb PC133 RAM
UDMA100 interface
Pioneer A05 DVD burner

I'm kind of leaning towards Vader as it has a slightly faster processor and the faster disk access times and I've heard of problems with the VIA chipset and dropping frames, although Goliath has the DVD Burner.

Vader is also near to the VCR so wouldn't need long cables. The only thing bad about Vader is that it has less memory.....

Well the whole point of the WinTV PVR-250 is that it is a HARDWARE encoder and it is a PCI device at that.

You could capture with it using a 400Mhz PII if you wanted.

So either computer is fine. I say make your life easier and put it in the computer that has the DVD burner although I realize you said the other one is closer to the TV.

And if they have swappable hard drives (just re-read that part) then put it in the one closer to the TV then I guess.

In other words the speed of the computer doesn't matter that much when using the WinTV PVR-250 so either one will be fine.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[sej7278]

Just got the WinTV PVR-250 from Fry's for $162 incl.

Bit disappointed there were no cables in there. The software is kinda crappy (really bad UI meant I was just about to send it back as I couldn't get colour to work) and the box contents didn't really seem retail quality.

The results seem great - just via RCA cables from my VCR at DVD quality seems fine. No sync problems on the couple of minute tests I did (South Park and Stargate SG1).

I had to put it on Vader as it was near the TV which is probably better as it means I can rip/burn DVD's on the other PC whilst I capture on this one.

I'm gonna try copying from my DVD player later and then gotta borrow my mate's Laserdisc!

I've not tried the tuner yet, doubt I will bother with that as I expect RCA to be better than Coax (don't have SVHS out on my VCR upstairs).

[FulciLives]

I don't think I mentioned this nor did anyone else but for more info on the WinTV PVR-250 including tricks and tweaks on using it you might want to check out this website:

http://www.shspvr.com/

Also if you can ... after few days of use of course ... report back here with your feelings since I too am considering getting one.

I'd be most interested in audio sync when using TMPGEnc DVD Author to edit the imported captures.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[sej7278]

I don't think I mentioned this nor did anyone else but for more info on the WinTV PVR-250 including tricks and tweaks on using it you might want to check out this website:

http://www.shspvr.com/

Also if you can ... after few days of use of course ... report back here with your feelings since I too am considering getting one.

I'd be most interested in audio sync when using TMPGEnc DVD Author to edit the imported captures.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I'll do one better, I'll put up a sample video and screengrab from VHS on my website - something I really would have liked to find myself (the one one the hauppauge site is 404'ed).

I'll have a go with DVD Author too for you - gotta find something which I want to copy to DVD in the meantime!

I'll have a look at the software on that site thanks.

[GKar]

Just got the WinTV PVR-250 from Fry's for $162 incl.

Bit disappointed there were no cables in there. The software is kinda crappy (really bad UI meant I was just about to send it back as I couldn't get colour to work) and the box contents didn't really seem retail quality.

The results seem great - just via RCA cables from my VCR at DVD quality seems fine. No sync problems on the couple of minute tests I did (South Park and Stargate SG1).

I had to put it on Vader as it was near the TV which is probably better as it means I can rip/burn DVD's on the other PC whilst I capture on this one.

I'm gonna try copying from my DVD player later and then gotta borrow my mate's Laserdisc!

I've not tried the tuner yet, doubt I will bother with that as I expect RCA to be better than Coax (don't have SVHS out on my VCR upstairs).

Don't feel bad about the crappy software. The Dazzle DVC II had crappy capture software (Moviestar) and crappy Authoring software (DVDit) too. I use a freeware capture utility and Tmpgenc for authoring. 8)

[sej7278]

Well it's been a couple of days, and I've produced an SVCD and an authored DVD.

First off, a couple of points that may help you if you have problems with the hardware/software working:

1. NTFS doesn't seem to be able to cope with ATA133 large file transfers (delayed write failure) this seems to be an un-fixed problem in Win2K and XP - you just have to change to UDMA5 ATA100.

2. If you lose sound in WinTV2000 turn off Instant Messenger scanning in Norton AV (!)

I'm currently only using RCA cables as the VCR near the PC doesn't have SVHS out.

The screengrabs are crappy, although I tried 1024x768 which I expect is scaled, I'll try yo put some 480x480 grabs on my website later. I shall also do a smallish video too (smallest I currently have is a 30Mb commercial!)

I was pretty disappointed with the VBR (2-2.5Kbps) SVCD quality - there was defnite blockiness and colour blurring. I've ripped a DVD and converted it to SVCD using TMPGEnc+ before and the results were almost indistinguishable from the original DVD.

The VBR (6-9Kbps ?) DVD quality is much better. I must point out that "DVD quality" is never going to happen when you're recording from VHS, as the source is not DVD quality, although the resulting DVD does seem clearer than the VHS. I expect a digital TV feed would be very nice.

I authored the MPEG2 into DVD files using the bundled software - it didn't seem to have any sync problems or lose quality, and it only took about 15mins for a 30min DVD. The software was a bit limited though (kinda too "wizard"-ish).

I then tried the demo of MPEG2VCR, OK smart arses, it is worth $120! I cut out the adverts of a Reno911 episode (did you realise that adverts are 10mins from every 30mins?!) with ease - it's literally a question of marking the start and end of the adverts and hitting cut!

The nice thing is that if you're just cutting commercials and not changing the encoding or anything, then it only takes about 4mins to rebuild a 20min MPEG.

I then authored the cut MPEG to DVD files using TMPGEnc DVD Author with no menu or chapters (took only a few minutes) and burnt using Nero.

I noticed that at the bottom of the screen when recording from VHS there is a line of flickering black blocks, which I assume is fixed with a TBC? It doesn't show up when you're recording live TV/DVD via the VCR. Could be the heads/tracking on my VCR or an old tape I guess - and it was SLP....

I also noticed that the volume is very high on the burnt DVD - I expect having WinTV2000 set at 100% volume was too much!

I haven't tried out the TV tuner yet, as I only get basic cable upstairs anyway.

Overall though I'm very pleased, I think it should serve its immediate purpose of converting a VHS wedding video into a DVD very well.

[trossin]

Use the PVR-250 on my 0.6 GHz (600 MHz) P3 machine to capture VCR output and it works like a champ. The only problem is that the free Ulead DVD Movie Factory supplied with the card (bought it a year ago) can not handle files larger than 2 Gbytes. I downloaded version 2.0 ($40 upgrade $50 for a fresh copy) and it works great. I'm able to capture > 2 Gbyte files and crop the start and end of movies and produce a DVD in a jiffy. No need to reencode once you get the bit rate adjusted. If the movie is a bit too big I used dvd2one to shrink it down.

Once the video is captured I can get a DVD out in less than an hour with Ulead's tool. The beauty is that Ulead can deal with the MP2 audio that the PVR-250 generates without forcing you to convert the audio. Both my DVD players play the MP2 audio stream just fine.

It is painless. It is quick (even with my "slow" machine). It is a way of life.

[sej7278]

Yeah, I managed to get Movie Factory to crop the end off the video (it was only 1.5Gb) couldn't figure out how to remove the commercials though.

Think I'll get MPEG2VCR, then I've got to figure out how to break a film up into chapters with a menu in TMPGEnc DVD Author.

[trossin]

In version 2.0 of movie factory you can cut out commercials with the edit video button. I think that is the name of it. Anyway, there is a button that takes the current video and allows you to create multiple segments without the commercials.

You can download a free demo and see if it works for you. It is a cheaper solution if it works for your needs. Version 2.0 also will convert videos so that you can change bit rates. It takes my machine all night to complete the task but the results looked very nice to me and the audio didn't get out of sync like when I used TMPGEnc. I only tried the 30 day demo of TMPGEnc but felt there was no need to send them money because the software did not work for large files created by the PVR-250. I have gotten it to work for small CBR (constant bit rate) files but not VBR (variable bit rate).

[FulciLives]

I noticed that at the bottom of the screen when recording from VHS there is a line of flickering black blocks, which I assume is fixed with a TBC? It doesn't show up when you're recording live TV/DVD via the VCR. Could be the heads/tracking on my VCR or an old tape I guess - and it was SLP....

Just about all VHS captures will have this garbage at the bottom. It is there on your TV screen too but because the TV does OVERSCAN you can't see it. Once you burn to a DVD and play back on a TV it will be the same ... you will not be able to see it. You do see it on the computer screen though since a computer screen does not do OVERSCAN like a normal TV does.

I also noticed that the volume is very high on the burnt DVD - I expect having WinTV2000 set at 100% volume was too much!

I find that with my capture card I usually have to set the recording level to around 75% so yeah 100% is definately too high!

Overall though I'm very pleased, I think it should serve its immediate purpose of converting a VHS wedding video into a DVD very well.

Glad you are happy

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Coopervid]

You don't have to be concerned about the flickering line from VHS. That's normal and doesn't show up on the TV when you watch it.

I knew you would like Womble's product. And yes, the price is steep.

I also do a little trick with excellent results on VHS recordings. Created a Half D1 template at 352*480 resolution and give it 6000kb/s bitrate. Very, very smooth video, reduced file size and DVD compatible. The creation of the template is a little awkward to save (again, crappy software...) but works like a charm. Just do some short recordings with this template and compare the results on a TV with the standard templates. You're of course still free to stick with those. Just let me know if there is interest in the setup I use.

[FulciLives]

You don't have to be concerned about the flickering line from VHS. That's normal and doesn't show up on the TV when you watch it.

I knew you would like Womble's product. And yes, the price is steep.

I also do a little trick with excellent results on VHS recordings. Created a Half D1 template at 352*480 resolution and give it 6000kb/s bitrate. Very, very smooth video, reduced file size and DVD compatible. The creation of the template is a little awkward to save (again, crappy software...) but works like a charm. Just do some short recordings with this template and compare the results on a TV with the standard templates. You're of course still free to stick with those. Just let me know if there is interest in the setup I use.

Most people seem to think that HALF D1 hits the MAX bitrate at 4000kbps but in my testing (using TMPGEnc and CCE) I've found that it doesn't seem to hit the MAX until about 5000kbps

I've done tests at both 5000kbps and 6000kbps and I can't see a difference.

So my point is you could probably use 5000kbps and save the space and still get just as good quality.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[sej7278]

But 352x480 isn't even SVCD size though is it, or is quality more from the higher bitrate (SVCD is max 2500Kbps). Is that a compliant size like 480x480?

So are you saying that 352x480 at 5000Kbps at 29fps is basically VHS quality?

I just used 720x480 at 6-9Mbps VBR (DVD quality) and thought the output was very good, but probably overkill for a VHS source.

[FulciLives]

But 352x480 isn't even SVCD size though is it, or is quality more from the higher bitrate (SVCD is max 2500Kbps). Is that a compliant size like 480x480?

So are you saying that 352x480 at 5000Kbps at 29fps is basically VHS quality?

I just used 720x480 at 6-9Mbps VBR (DVD quality) and thought the output was very good, but probably overkill for a VHS source.

DVD supports 352x480 (called HALF D1) as well as 720x480 (called FULL D1).

Despite the lower resolution of HALF D1 it can look nearly as good as FULL D1 yet requires LESS bitrate. So a 5000kbps HALF D1 video is about the same as an 8000kbps FULL D1 video.

FULL D1 will look every-so-slightly sharper with a VHS source but for most VHS sources you will find that HALF D1 is good enough.

I only use FULL D1 on pre-record SP speed VHS or something I recorded myself at SP that was from a high quality source such as cable TV.

So for your wedding stuff you would still want to do FULL D1 but for most stuff from VHS and even most cable TV stations you will find that HALF D1 is really enough.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Coopervid]

John is absolutely right with his findings- and yes, I agree with the 5000kb/s. That's also what I have seen. However, the PVR-250 does encode actually to smaller bitrates as put in the template. Usually to something in the are between 2500 - 3800 kb/s. The "trick" is to
give it by the template just enough "headroom" so the template doesn't artificially limit the bitrate.


My Half DVD template is as follows:

Video
Output StreamVD
Bitrate variable, 5000kb/s, Bit Peak rate: 8000kb/s, GOP 6, Resolution: 352x480

Audio
Stereo
MPEG1 Layer2
48kHz
224 kb/s

The GOP setting at 6 makes cutting more precise as it inserts more I-frames than the other option by setting it to 15.

[Amontillado]

I also noticed that the volume is very high on the burnt DVD - I expect having WinTV2000 set at 100% volume was too much!

I find that with my capture card I usually have to set the recording level to around 75% so yeah 100% is definately too high!

You may allready have found out, but you can't change the volume of the recordings in wintv2k, the volume controls just don't influence the files.
That can only be done with a small registry trick.
You can find this on SHS's page or on http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/htpc.html (under tips & tricks).