Storage of DV file.... compression question??

[Vanna]

Hi,

I have transferred DV AVI from my DVcam to my PC for editing, I want to erase the DV tape so I can use it again, but I want to store the DV AVI footage.

What is the best way to do this?

The only way I can think of to try to keep the best quality is to compress to MPEG2 and then burn to CDR or DVDR.

Is there any other way I can keep the DV AVI quality but at a smaller file size (ie to burn onto a disc)?

The reason I ask is that I want to use AVI rather than MPEG2 for later editing.

Thankyou in advance for any help or advice.

[redwudz]

If you compress it further you will lose some quality. If you have room on your harddrive, that may be the best way. If you really need to erase the tape, as you said, covert it to DVD.

[jrbling]

You may want to try using vdub with the huffyuv codec, its a 'lossless' compression and its still in avi format like you wanted. Probably do a search and read more about how to do it.
goodluck.

[Thorn]

Huffyuv would be about 2.5x the filesize as DV unless you drop the resolution down.

If you really want to keep the file as avi, save the actual DV avi. Split it as appropriate and then archive to DVD as data. The only way to get the original DV quality is to keep the original avi (or the tape).

Personally, I'd keep the DV tape for a while - they're pretty cheap. Go to costco and buy a bunch of them for a couple of bucks each. If you just have a few minutes on each tape, pull the dv off of each and write all the dv files to one tape. Being able to grab the file from a dv tape is the cleanest solution to re-edit later.

[Jester700]

I agree; keep the tape. It holds 3x the data of a DVD recordable, so you don't save any money by saving to DVD, and it costs you a lot of time. If you're looking at long term storage, the DVD might be more robust, but that's another thing.

Plus, you should limit reusing tapes to only a few times anyway. You don't want to start seeing dropouts.

[Vanna]

Thankyou all for your help and advice.

So let me get this straight...
The best way to keep the original quality is to leave it on the DV tape.

The "second best" way is to maybe split the DVAVI file into 4.7GB segments and store on a DVDR??
But you are right, this will be more costly.

I thought the captured AVI file would be the same quality as on the DV tape????

So, THORN, the Huffyuv codec thru Vdub would be useless to try??

I just thought there was a program that could compress the file to fit on a disc (CDR or DVDR), then I could de compress when I needed it later???

About how many times would be ok to re use DV tapes until the quality drops??

Thanks again.

[holistic]

second best way - export as DV (avi) (prior to editing) to a large (100GB+) harddrive.

Use either
1: harddrive caddy to swap drive in/out of computer
or 2: external enclosure device (firewire preferred).

DV = ~13Gb / hour of viewing.

][

[dcsos]

Just a question..How would you split the file into 4.7gig segments for storage as an AVI on a DVD DISC SURFACE (DATA BACKUP)?

I'd like to do it this way, but cannot figure how the break up the 9 gig files I have on the hard drive and In some cases can't get the master DVD tape again!

Or do I havta wait for BLU-RAY OPTICAL to get cheaper?(30gig but 25 after formatting)...or use a TAPE DRIVE (ugh!)

[ta2]

Use this program:

http://www.martinstoeckli.ch/splitter/splitter.html

To split your files into manageable segments. Most of the time you can still play each segment into media player anyway. If not, you will have to copy the 3 parts to your computer for playback.

IMO, the BEST option would be to back it up to DVD. If you have less than 1 Hour, you could back up at max DVD quality. Use CCE and do a 10pass, 9500 kbits/sec MPEG-2 and you'll have perfect quality.

[Jester700]

Use this program:

http://www.martinstoeckli.ch/splitter/splitter.html

To split your files into manageable segments. Most of the time you can still play each segment into media player anyway. If not, you will have to copy the 3 parts to your computer for playback.

IMO, the BEST option would be to back it up to DVD. If you have less than 1 Hour, you could back up at max DVD quality. Use CCE and do a 10pass, 9500 kbits/sec MPEG-2 and you'll have perfect quality.

Not if he ever wants to edit later. MPEG2 is crap for editing, even if it's at a bitrate that's humanly indistinguishable from the DV original. If no editing is ever going to be needed, then yes - there are a few encoders that will give you visually perfect video up in the 8Mb/s & above range. But that's not a backup.

[Jester700]

Thankyou all for your help and advice.

So let me get this straight...
The best way to keep the original quality is to leave it on the DV tape.

The "second best" way is to maybe split the DVAVI file into 4.7GB segments and store on a DVDR??
But you are right, this will be more costly.

I thought the captured AVI file would be the same quality as on the DV tape????

So, THORN, the Huffyuv codec thru Vdub would be useless to try??

I just thought there was a program that could compress the file to fit on a disc (CDR or DVDR), then I could de compress when I needed it later???

About how many times would be ok to re use DV tapes until the quality drops??

Thanks again.

You got the basics right. The AVI file IS the same as the DV on the tape.

You CAN compress the AVI with WinRAR or WinZip, but DV-AVI is already a compressed format, so you wouldn't get more than about 10% savings. Not worth the hassle, IMO.

Tapes are all different, so you need to find out what works for you as far as reusing. But use new tapes on critical shoots, and mark the tapes so you know how many times you used them. If you PAUSE the tape at all, I wouldn't reuse that one. Pausing really puts wear on one spot, which is a likely dropout point if you reuse the tape.

[dcsos]

TA2 thanks but the solution that you posted was not what I was looking for.
Your link is to a FILE UTILITY SPLITTER NOT AN AVI SPLITTER from the faqs on that site

Question: Can Splitter also split video and audio files (e.g. AVI, MP3, ...) ?
Answer: Splitter only splits files into several parts, regardless of the file type. That means you can split such files, but it's not the same as to make 2 video files from 1 video file, you only get 2 parts of 1 video file. If you want to get two video files, you need a special splitter program, which knows the specific file format.

Now that VANNA is straight on the need to backup at DV quality,
I still need to know

HOW CAN ONE SPLIT large AVI files for later use...or do we have to re- capture everything in 30 minute segments?

Is there a method for splitting LARGE AVI DV files for storage ?
Once again I'd hate to have to wait for Blu Ray Sorage (25gig surface)
or use a Tape Drive (ugh!)

[Cornucopia]

TA2 thanks but the solution that you posted was not what I was looking for.
Your link is to a FILE UTILITY SPLITTER NOT AN AVI SPLITTER from the faqs on that site

Question: Can Splitter also split video and audio files (e.g. AVI, MP3, ...) ?
Answer: Splitter only splits files into several parts, regardless of the file type. That means you can split such files, but it's not the same as to make 2 video files from 1 video file, you only get 2 parts of 1 video file. If you want to get two video files, you need a special splitter program, which knows the specific file format.

Now that VANNA is straight on the need to backup at DV quality,
I still need to know

HOW CAN ONE SPLIT large AVI files for later use...or do we have to re- capture everything in 30 minute segments?

Is there a method for splitting LARGE AVI DV files for storage ?
Once again I'd hate to have to wait for Blu Ray Sorage (25gig surface)
or use a Tape Drive (ugh!)

>>>>>>edit
Sorry, machine I was on froze up at the wrong moment...
What I meant to write was: Try VirtualDub!
Set video and audio to Direct Stream copy. Save as Segmented AVI. Put in DVD disc size (minus a cushion) for filesize limit. Should work.
Or try some other DV-type converter utility, such as Canopus' type1<->type2 converter. It'll also split the file to a particular maximum. There are others...

HTH,
Scott

[Thorn]

dcsos - The file splitter would work if you want to chop it then reassemble before editing again, but that's an ugly solution. As cornucopia mentioned, virtualdub is great for splitting avi files, but since it requires type-2 avis, you'll have to convert the whole file unless you captured in type-2 (some cap programs convert on the fly while you capture).

I haven't tried this, since it is a lot more work than keeping the tape. I figure I should hopefully figure out my final edit before the tape deteriorates. I've made two versions of tapes that I wasn't going to keep - one edited and one uncut. I haven't had the urge to create a different edit, but at least I can watch the whole thing if I want to.

Vanna - huffyuv is great for temporary storage, but at ~30-40gb/hour for full DV and DVD resolution video, it's not practical. It's strongest point is that it's lossless, so you don't loose video info like when you transfer between formats like DV and mpeg2. I use it for capturing to and as an intermediate format when filtering video. It is not a practical archive format.

[The village idiot]

Well for splitting large files, you could use winrar and set for no compression. Then you could also get error recovery with those data sets. I suggest using FSRaid for the recovery files.

http://www.rarsoft.com
http://www.fluidstudios.com/fsraid.html

You would still have to extract the entire archive in order to do anything with the DV, but it would solve you storage problem. Just set winrar to make a chunk size of something like 100MB. You would then have about 41 chunks per disk. The recovery files from FSRaid would also be 100MB, so keep that in mind if you use them. Also a good idea to put winrar and FSRaid executables on the disk sets incase you need to extract/recover sometime in the distant future. This would be my solution, for what it is worth.

[FulciLives]

Well for splitting large files, you could use winrar and set for no compression. Then you could also get error recovery with those data sets. I suggest using FSRaid for the recovery files.

http://www.rarsoft.com
http://www.fluidstudios.com/fsraid.html

You would still have to extract the entire archive in order to do anything with the DV, but it would solve you storage problem. Just set winrar to make a chunk size of something like 100MB. You would then have about 41 chunks per disk. The recovery files from FSRaid would also be 100MB, so keep that in mind if you use them. Also a good idea to put winrar and FSRaid executables on the disk sets incase you need to extract/recover sometime in the distant future. This would be my solution, for what it is worth.

Yeah I've used WinRAR to split a single large file to several discs. Just make sure you select ARCHIVE and not COMPRESSION.

You can even make the files self-executable but the pain-in-the-ass thing is you must copy all of the parts (be it 2 or 50 or whatever) to your HDD so that they are all on there in the same location. Then you simply start up the first one (if you made it self-executalbe) and it will extract the single large file from the many smaller fles.

No loss in quality doing this but it will take all of 3 DVD discs and a wee bit of a 4th DVD disc for a single hour of DV footage.

That's why you are probably better leaving it on the DV tapes. At least until a larger capacity optical disc format comes out such as Blue Ray

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Vanna]

Thanks guys,

So, as a result, I have gathered that the best way to keep the original format is to keep the DV tape.... obviously. :P

Most of the solutions mentioned in this forum have their pros and cons.

The only other way I can gather to back up my tapes is to split the file into 4.7GB segments and store on DVDRAM, which obviously requires a few discs but atleast I have a reasonably robust storage.

The only thing is.... I'm not convinced on what software to use to split the file efficiently and easy.

More suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

[FulciLives]

Thanks guys,

So, as a result, I have gathered that the best way to keep the original format is to keep the DV tape.... obviously. :P

Most of the solutions mentioned in this forum have their pros and cons.

The only other way I can gather to back up my tapes is to split the file into 4.7GB segments and store on DVDRAM, which obviously requires a few discs but atleast I have a reasonably robust storage.

The only thing is.... I'm not convinced on what software to use to split the file efficiently and easy.

More suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

If you are going to split the DV onto DVD-R discs I would be safe and split the files into 1GB chucks and put 4 on a single DVD-R

As we all should know by now a lot of MEDIA (the blank DVD) can get read errors once you go over 4.0GB and since this is an archive that you want to be able to access again you don't want to fill up the DVD too much and risk READ ERRORS. Even if using the BEST quality blank MEDIA I would still try to keep the final isze to just under 4.2GB as even the best MEDIA can have occassional READ ERRORS after that point. Remember a DVD is really only about 4.3GB not 4.7GB

Also make sure BEFORE you delete your DV file from the computer that you run a READ ERROR test on each DVD that you backed it up too and that they don't have ANY read error at all. You can use DVDInfoPro for this.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Vanna]

If you are going to split the DV onto DVD-R discs I would be safe and split the files into 1GB chucks and put 4 on a single DVD-R

As we all should know by now a lot of MEDIA (the blank DVD) can get read errors once you go over 4.0GB and since this is an archive that you want to be able to access again you don't want to fill up the DVD too much and risk READ ERRORS. Even if using the BEST quality blank MEDIA I would still try to keep the final isze to just under 4.2GB as even the best MEDIA can have occassional READ ERRORS after that point. Remember a DVD is really only about 4.3GB not 4.7GB

Thanks "Fulcilives", I did not know this.

But still, what is the best software to split the file??
How do you do it??

[FulciLives]

Thanks "Fulcilives", I did not know this.

But still, what is the best software to split the file??
How do you do it??

I already told you in an earlier post in this thread. Use WinRAR and set the "compression" to ARCHIVE and do 1GB chunks or 1024MB (same thing).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Don't use DVD-RAM for this. It is WAY too expensive. Just use regular DVD-R or DVD+R discs.

[Vanna]

I already told you in an earlier post in this thread. Use WinRAR and set the "compression" to ARCHIVE and do 1GB chunks or 1024MB (same thing).

Sorry about that, losing track of who is who... I will try tonight and let you know.

Thanks again.