Southern Ca. Supermarket strike - Do you cross picket line?

[Roundabout]

I don't know about others here in Calif. but I'm pissed at the strikers. I went to Ralphs yesterday and was hassled and threatened at the store when entering and leaving. All I wanted was some milk, and they physically moved my direction and tried to prevent me from coming into the store. I told them that I didn't have time to drive to the other side of town just to buy milk, and the cost of gas ($1.75/gal) here would make it ridiculous.
They started shouting and when I came back out, they sneered "Have a nice day". I tried to ignore them but they continued all the way back to my car.
Just my opinion, but this is no way to get people on their side. In fact, just the opposite, now I want to go back and do more shopping and buy more - to support the stores! My wife is scared of them, and worries they may try to pick a fight. Some stores have security guards in the parking lot, but this store doesn't.
I just wondering what others here think of this, and what you would do. They want us to shop somewhere else - for their convenience, but I am no longer inclined to give a damn, I'll shop where I want.

[mysticgohan17]

Awful calm strikers here in the southern valley . if i need groceries, its my decision where i want to shop, not theirs. if you do cross and they dont "catch" you, when you come out of the store they'll explain why they're on strike and are nice about it. as far as im concerned they're just trying to keep stability in their homes. they dont need raises, but if their medical benifits are taken away they'll have to ask for them.

[gmatov]

Roundabout,

Just admit what you are. A scab. If you will cross a picketline just to get a jug of milk, which, I don't care what you say, you could have gotten at any convenience store/gas station, you are a scab who would prefer the workers in that store to submit to any decision management makes.

If they say "You will work for half the wages you did before", should they say "Yassa, Masssa. You pays the bills."?

Forget it. Young people have no concept of work. All they know is they get out of college,they get a nice desk job, they make big bucks,and then......

But you've never been in a position like this. Where ALL the companies inthe US are outsourcing to India, China, Bangladesh, Honduras.

This time, your job is on the block, too. Telephony makes it easy to move your help desk job to India, where they will do the same for 1/10 the USD.

Your Supermarket asks 10 bucks a pound for lunchmeat,and you sympathize with the poor stores who have to hire scabs to keep operating.

Frig 'em. Their top bosses get 10 million buck bonuses for stepping on the peons, but you just gotta go into THAT store to get a jug of milk.

I wish you much success in life just hope that if your forbearers were wotking people they are not spinning in their graves.

"My grandson, the SCAB!!!"

Have fun pal,

Hope they don't outsource you.

George

[Roundabout]

George,
I don't know where you got the idea that I'm working on a help desk. You probably already know that I used to work for Sony - but what you don't know is why I'm not there now. It's a fact of life, things change. Maybe you have someone that works at a grocery store and that's why you are mad at me. Don't know what your reasons are, but there's no reason to use names like "scab". A scab would be someone who crossed a picket line to go back to work, but a customer is just that, a customer.

As for my job, I have a severe back injury and had to leave the company.
I have been unemployed for over 3 years, so I know all about problems paying medical expenses, and living off whatever I can scrounge up. I never collected unemployment, and never collected welfare, and never will - not if I can help it. I worked and saved when I was working so that I'd have money for hard times, which I didn't know at the time would ever come. Well, it happened - but that's life. You don't know anything about me, but you say "but you've never been in a position like this". You don't have any idea what positions I have been in. I don't know where you got the ideas that you have about me. You must have me confused with someone else. I'm no kid, I'm 46 years old. I don't know what your financial situation is, but I would never presume to know all about you or make judgements about your life unless I knew you personally and knew you well.

When I was working, I had to pay for medical insurance, like most people do - except, apparently, grocery workers. By the way, my best friend works for Albertsons and has been there for years. We've talked about this issue and I know and understand his point - and he agrees that they should pay some medical costs, just not all of it. And I agree with him. I think they should have at least what other companies offer, no more, no less. They shouldn't expect people to work for nothing (my friend makes $55,000 a year as produce mgr) but they should expect to pay a fair share. A fair share, not 50%. So I am on their side, but not when they stoop to tactics of harassing people going into stores. BTW: I do most shopping at Costco, but if I need something small like a jug of milk, I'll be dammed if I have to ask their permission. You do what you have to do, and I'll do what I have to do. I thought you were a nice guy, where did all this anger come from?

Here's a post from the Channel 4 website, one of many. Very telling.

mwife 10-14-2003, 7:46 PM
1. No one told them to go on strike. If they don't like the benefits then find another job!

2. Even if their benefits do change to what is being proposed, they are still making more money than someone who has enlisted into our military and has been in service for ten years. For example, my husband has been in now for ten years and averages $20,000 a year and is considered middle management as an E6.

3. The proposed health benefits will still be better than what our military has. The dependents of a military person has to meet co-pays as well as deductibles.

4. The retirement plan that these people on strike will still end up making more money than someone who stays in the military as a career. A career in the military takes a about 20 years to achieve and then they are only looking at being able to receive around 40% of what their ending pay was at the time of retirement. Plus they lose all health benefits unless they want to continue to pay for them out of their own pockets!

5. Our men and women in the service are out there risking their lives to defend this nation for people to be able to strike on stupid issues such as this. They had better take a look and say thank you to our military!

6. If I am told to shop the commissary, then they need to take a look at that. Since most commissaries are privately owned. The prices are still higher than the grocery stores and the selection of food is not as great as the chain grocery stores.

7. Being a military wife, I need to help in feeding my family and taking of them. If that means crossing a picket line to do so, I will!

8. I have already been harassed by these striking employees at the Ralphs located in Channel Islands off Channel Island Blvd. and wish that they would just stop to think of they are doing. Not only does it hurt the economy here in California. But it makes them look greedy for what they are already getting! There is no sympthy here.

9. I have also owned and operated my own business. And I have worked for other companies where I have had to make a $30.00 co-pay and meet a minimum of either a $200.00 to $500.00 deductible on health insurance. As well as figure out my own retirement plan as there was none at the companies I have worked for. Or if there was, it wasn't that great.

10. It is time to grow up and become part of the real world!

kindest regards, Sandra

[jeex]

exactly who is striking? cashiers, stock boys, bag boys? or all of them? if so, how are they keeping the stores open without employees? lines must be terrible.

next time you go, take some pepper spray with you, once they start getting in your face, pepper spray them.. make sure you have your friend in the car video taping the whole incident. heh

[pacmania_2001]

Screw them, it's a free market economy. If they don't want to work for what a person/company is willing to pay them then they shouldn't complain when someone is. If they've chosen to go into a job that requires only easily imitable skills then they should be prepared to take what the market determines is a fair price.

I work in a supermarket/retail environment and I know I'm easily expendable so I'm willing to accept a lower wage compared to someone who is in demand.

How do they think being violent to customers is going to help their cause anyway? It's the same as when anti-war (or whatever) protests are on and they go around destroying innocent peoples property in the midst of it. Thats really going to make me want to join your cause... not!

Next time they cause you hassle tell them to either step away and stop annoying you otherwise you'll run them over on the way out.

[Roundabout]

Jeex,
All employees are on strike, except the salaried ones (managers). They have hired temporary employees to keep the stores running, and when I went in, there was no problem with lines - the store was empty almost, because the picketers outside threaten people that want to come in the store. I've been reading the website for Channel 4, and from what I've read so far, at least 80% of people posting are against the workers and their strike.
http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=la&Forum=513&Topic=9231
No matter what I think, this is what the public in general thinks. It makes for some interesting reading, and people make some good points (on both sides). I was more or less neutral, until they started harassing me for just wanting to buy one item and get on with my life. Now I really don't care what happens. If they are able to get what they want, more power to them. If not, well, that's life. I've got my own problems. At least they have a job to go back to.

[jeex]

coax them in to a fight, but make sure its being video taped.. make sure it looks like they're the one's starting it, then whip out the pepper spray!

you would be a local celebrity.

[Roundabout]

Jeex,
It wouldn't take much - they want to start something with you, even if you try to ignore them or pass them by. Apparently, they are doing this to a number of people, from what I read on the Ch.4 Forum. They aren't getting any sympathy from Joe Q. Public due to their tactics and demands. Like several people mentioned, when Super Wal-Marts come in, they can kiss their jobs goodbye. So no matter the outcome of this strike, one way or another, their jobs are going to change whether they like it or not.

Here's an example from that website forum:

cupmaster 10-13-2003, 6:24 PM

If grocery workers want to strike, I see no real reason why they shouldn't. I do agree with arthurDJ though, the only specifics I am seeing about healthcare premiums are those of paying $5 per individual and $15 per family.
That is generous, most would kill for such a rate.

So do the strikers really think their lost wages are worth the $5 extra they will pay a month, or at most $15? Economics dictates that they will lose this battle, and judging by the accosting I received entering a Ralph's Sunday morning, this is more emotional than anything. I was apalled they suggested I go to Trader Joe's for the half gallon milk I needed, and pay $5 for ultra premium organic milk from babied cows. When I alluded to not having a car, they offered my bus fare.... a generous offer but they should rethink why I would take time out of my morning to fight for a cause not my own, and on top of that spend more of my hard earned money just so they don't have to spend theirs on a paltry healthcare monthly charge.

Strike if you will, but at least be civil and informed.

And another one:

RFC634 10-14-2003, 10:19 AM

Can you believe these chowderheads make $18 an hour? My god, I had no idea that the dimwitted hottie that drags my groceries across the bar code scanner made that much! How long would it take to learn this idiotic job? If it took 16 hours that would be too much.
These whiners are on the ultimate gravy train. No wonder the public is not that sympathetic.

This is the perfect job for those who lack the brain power to do anything more challanging. Even the morons at the DMV do more work and are paid less.

In fact, try as I might, I can't think of an easier occupation. Can you?

I pay my receptionist $9.50 an hour and she has to know Excel, Word, Outlook and Access. And not a week goes by that I don't hear from people who want *her* job.

$18 an hour with those cherry benefits is an outrage. Who told these clowns that working as a checker was a career? This is one of those jobs you do as a stepping stone, while you're going to college or whatever. It's the same as waitressing except waitresses have to do work.

What has the checkout girl done for you lately? Absolutely zip. Always arrogant and uncooperative. Always chewing that gum and talking with the boxboy about when they get to take their break.

This job should really pay about $10-11 dollars per hour. It's the easiest job in the world and there are thousands of people who would "work" for that rate.

Fire them all.

And George thinks I'm extreme? Geez, gimme a break! Like I said before, I think they should have some form of medical care, but it should be comparable to what other companies offer - no more, no less. I wouldn't say "fire them all". I'm sure they try to do a good job, but in this country, in this bad economic time, there's a limit to what they can expect.

[Roundabout]

Screw them, it's a free market economy. If they don't want to work for what a person/company is willing to pay them then they shouldn't complain when someone is. If they've chosen to go into a job that requires only easily imitable skills then they should be prepared to take what the market determines is a fair price.

I work in a supermarket/retail environment and I know I'm easily expendable so I'm willing to accept a lower wage compared to someone who is in demand.

How do they think being violent to customers is going to help their cause anyway? It's the same as when anti-war (or whatever) protests are on and they go around destroying innocent peoples property in the midst of it. Thats really going to make me want to join your cause... not!

Next time they cause you hassle tell them to either step away and stop annoying you otherwise you'll run them over on the way out.

Exactly my point, (thanks for your comment) they aren't doing themselves any favors by harrassing customers and threatening them. That's most of the reason why I've turned against them, and I'm sure others will feel the same way (some already do, from the posts on the Ch.4 forum). They can't make a compelling case to the public why they should get the pay and benefits that they do, when a lot of people are out of work, trying to find any job they can, and they expect sympathy. Even my friend who works at Albertson's admits he is way overpaid for putting fruit on a table. Can you imagine getting $55,000 a year + benefits + pension to do that? No degree, only a h.s. diploma, getting that kind of money for putting boxes of fruit and veggies on a table?
The bottom line is, they are worth what the marketplace will pay for their "skill". But they want to control the marketplace, and stores like WalMart are going to give them a reality check. Whether they like it or not, as Bob Dylan said long ago "The times they are a-changing".

[Craig Tucker]

$18 an hour to operate a checkout, and they are striking ?. Most checkout operators here would love to earn that kind of money, the going rate in the UK is around £5-6 per hour. My wife works night at Walmarts and only gets £7.21 per hour.

What exactly is the reason for the strike, money or working conditions. Holding an aggressive picket line is not going to help their cause, they will just alienate the general public rather than gaining their support.

[thayne]

I don't support any unions. I think they are ruining our economy and I could care less about them.... Unions are the reason everything is so expensive.

[Tommyknocker]

I do support unions. They us the forty hour work week, child labor laws, workmen's compensation, unemployment insurance, the list goes on and on. And the reason everything is so expensive is because the oil companies keep raising the price of fossil fuels. Do you think the union owns them as well?

[Solarjetman]

I went to Ralphs yesterday and was hassled and threatened at the store when entering and leaving. All I wanted was some milk, and they physically moved my direction and tried to prevent me from coming into the store.

I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure that is illegal. There are laws forbiding protestors from in any way hampering people from entering or leaving the establishment. They can yell all they want, but if they physically block you, they have just broken the law.

[Tommyknocker]

To stop one person from buying milk? What were they going to do when the police showed up and arrested them for verbal assault? Something does not sound right here. Would love to hear the strikers' side.

[Solarjetman]

What were they going to do when the police showed up and arrested them for verbal assault?

I'm not sure it is, but if this is directed toward my comment, I am not saying they broke the law from what they said. By walking in front of Roundabout, they were physically trying to stop him from entering the store. THAT is what is illegal. Not what they were saying. If someone wishes to cross the picket line, the law states that the people striking cannot try and physically stop them.

[Tommyknocker]

And you can neither threaten nor scare anyone verbally or physically either. That is against the law as well. Try and stand up on a corner and threaten someone's life. I bet the police would like to talk to you, depending on the neighborhood. Everything the striker's allegedly did to Roundabout was as illegal as all get out. That is why I do not understand why he did not have the arrested or sue them. Made me wonder what the strikers' side of the story was.

[Roundabout]

I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure that is illegal. There are laws forbiding protestors from in any way happering people from entering or leaving the establishment. They can yell all they want, but if they physically block you, they have just broken the law.

You're right, but they're doing it anyway. I just saw on the news a few minutes ago that somewhere in West LA, they were blocking the entrance to the parking lots and verbally harassing the customers. No one to stop it. Also there were people driving by honking horns constantly, starting at 5 a.m. - disturbing the neighbors nearby, they can't sleep.
I think as this thing drags on (apparently it may go on for weeks, if not longer) the violence may escalate. They want the public to support them, but they don't give a damn about the public. A monkey could be trained to do a lot of what their job entails, but they seem to think they're irreplaceable. They have a rude awakening coming.

$18 an hour to operate a checkout, and they are striking ?. Most checkout operators here would love to earn that kind of money, the going rate in the UK is around £5-6 per hour. My wife works night at Walmarts and only gets £7.21 per hour.

What exactly is the reason for the strike, money or working conditions. Holding an aggressive picket line is not going to help their cause, they will just alienate the general public rather than gaining their support

Exactly. And there are plenty of people out of work here that would love to have that job making that kind of money, no matter the benefits or not. They've been spoiled and had things their way for so long, they think they're entitled to everything, and now they're finding out otherwise and squealing like pigs when things don't go their way.
They are striking because they are being asked to pay for a portion of their medical benefits (which virtually all American companies do, except the grocery companies, until now) and they don't like it. They've had a free ride, thus far, on the backs of customers who have to pay higher prices to support their benefits - which is why stores like Wal-Mart can offer lower prices. But I don't see employees leaving Wal-Mart en masse because they don't like the benefits, or lack thereof.
And by harassing customers as they are doing, it will only turn us off to their cause. I know there are many others like me. As this thing wears on, more people will begin to return to the stores, because they have to - everyone has to eat. Then it may start to get ugly. If they sense they are losing the war, the threats and intimidation may escalate, and who knows what it may lead to? This is just beginning, and a lot has happened already. Not everyone has the time, money, gas, or inclination to drive miles and miles to a non-union supermarket just so the babies (strikers) get their way. I won't. Especially now, seeing what their tactics are.

[Roundabout]

And you can neither threaten nor scare anyone verbally or physically either. That is against the law as well. Try and stand up on a corner and threaten someone's life. I bet the police would like to talk to you, depending on the neighborhood. Everything the striker's allegedly did to Roundabout was as illegal as all get out. That is why I do not understand why he did not have the arrested or sue them. Made me wonder what the strikers' side of the story was.

How am I going to have them arrested, and for what? They didn't threaten my life, and they didn't physically attack me. They acted in a threatening manner - not nice, but not illegal. And anything that happens would be my word against theirs, and they have dozens of people that would be more than willing to lie to protect their buddies out there. Blocking the entrance, that was illegal, but they walk back and forth in front of the entrance so that it is effectively blocked, you can't get between them to get inside. I tried to ignore them, but they confront you in the parking lot before you can get near the entrance and bully you, and it's not just me. It's happening to a lot of people. If I were a woman, I would feel very threatened if some huge guy walked toward me - and they showed on the news how many women were leaving after trying to get inside and couldn't without verbal abuse. Since they can't win by arguing with management, they use threats and intimidation to try and prevent customers from shopping in the store - using us as pawns in their game. And I don't like it, and I won't honor their strike no matter how much they threaten me. I'm going to take our video camera with me the next time I go shopping, just in case they try to do something physical - I won't have them threaten or hurt my wife, just because they want to be bullies. They can try what they want with me, but if they try something with my wife, look out.

[Solarjetman]

That $18/hr wage with full benifits is outragous. I am working in a position that requires a college degree for less pay than that, and I have to buy my own health insurance! What makes their job (which anyone could do) more valuable than mine (which not everyone could do)?

Granted, California is more expensive to live in than here, but not by that much. And my current position is only a probationary period, and in a few months I may get hired for more money (God willing), but chew on this...

I just looked up the average wage of a police officer in the United States. It is $20.17/hour (too low in my opinion but that's another story). So, by saying they deserve more, they are in a way saying that their job is just as difficult to perform as law enforcement?!? Give me a break.

[Roundabout]

That $18/hr wage with full benifits is outragous. I am working in a position that requires a college degree for less pay than that, and I have to buy my own health insurance! What makes their job (which anyone could do) more valuable than mine (which not everyone could do)?

Granted, California is more expensive to live in than here, but not by that much. And my current position is only a probationary period, and in a few months I may get hired for more money (God willing), but chew on this...

I just looked up the average wage of a police officer in the United States. It is $20.17/hour (too low in my opinion but that's another story). So, by saying they deserve more, they are in a way saying that their job is just as difficult to perform as law enforcement?!? Give me a break.

Solarjetman,
And it's not just full benefits - it's something that is unheard of in this day and time, FREE benefits. And they've had it for years. Hell, even 15 years ago, on my old job, I had to pay co-payments for medical, dental, and vision insurance. Meanwhile, they paid NOTHING. ZERO. Can you imagine any other job where all this is paid for, with no deductible? Now they're being asked to pay their fair share, and they go on strike. I don't think they realize they can be replaced by self-scanners (at the checkout stand, like Home Depot and Food4Less has) and monkeys to put the cans and vegetables on the shelves. That's why they can hire 16 year olds and have no problems, you don't need a high school diploma to do that kind of work. The replacement workers that have been hired learned how to do those jobs in what, 2 hours? The stores don't need these overpaid, whining babies. They finally decided to do something about it, and I say it's long overdue. Wouldn't it be a shock if they were all told they don't have a job to come back to?
Things will get much worse when Wal-Mart Supercenters begin to open here. I can only imagine how the union will react. Wal-Mart is the devil incarnate to the unions, because they can attract and hire and keep workers even without a union. The union depises this fact and will do anything to keep Wal-Mart out. They think they can stop progress. I, for one, can't wait until the Supercenters open. That's the last the chain stores will see of me. When I lived in Las Vegas, that's the only place I shopped, Wal-Mart and Sam's Club (they were next to each other). Great prices, great selection, and no hassles.

[FoolishBrett]

I am firmly on the side of companies in these matters. Sure unions gave us a forty hour work week but what the hell is that? I've been salaried or on some sort of commission blend for 12 years. I always average more than 40.

The basis of the USA is equal opportunity not equal pay. Unions are more like socialism than a democracy. They are generally against merit pay and cross working.

Usually union people are saying that they are getting F$&ked on pay, hours etc. They just are complainers. If your job sucks so bad, go get another. If not then be happy with what you have or make yourself more desirable to the free market.

[tgpo]

What would I do? Let the picketers deal for themselves. If they lay a hand on me or my loved ones, they lose that hand. I shop where I want to shop. If they tell me to shop somewhere else, then they are no better than their managers. Screw them and their cause, it's my decision, not theirs. At Publix, when they first opened in NA, there were tons of picketers because Publix doesn't allow a Union. Screw that, we shopped their because they were the cheapest place around. For all we know, Kroger placed people on the line to draw us over there.

Summary: Shop where you wanna shop.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I understand gmatov's position but I don't agree with it,the unions are one reason why these corporations are exporting our jobs.Most(but not all) grocery employees are well paid with great benefits,I have to pay $12 per month for dental and $125 for medical insurance and that is only for MYSELF!The insurance companies have us by the "short hairs" but that is another topic.
If they don't like their salary/benefits they should get another job,I used to be in a union but it was a job with no future so I eventually quit.

[tgpo]

Publix eventually got a union, but I refused to join it. Worthless to a high school student. Worthless now to a college student.

[thayne]

I do support unions. They us the forty hour work week, child labor laws, workmen's compensation, unemployment insurance, the list goes on and on. And the reason everything is so expensive is because the oil companies keep raising the price of fossil fuels. Do you think the union owns them as well?

They keep raising price to pay their union workers... Look at the cost of cars. It's out of control....

[BJ_M]

I do support unions. They us the forty hour work week, child labor laws, workmen's compensation, unemployment insurance, the list goes on and on. And the reason everything is so expensive is because the oil companies keep raising the price of fossil fuels. Do you think the union owns them as well?

They keep raising price to pay their union workers... Look at the cost of cars. It's out of control....

cars are a bad example because cars today are much cheaper than 20 or 30 years ago , if you factor in how long it takes you to work to buy one .. it used to be something like 1 .5 years wages and now its .6 or something ..

also -- the cost of oil (gas) IS to cheap in the USA ... it should be higher to discourage low MPG suvs and such ... i mean I see people driving around the city in those HUGE fords and cadi's and linc's -- and the pickup truck caddi is a joke ...

i drive 250km a day btw to commute ..

anyway -- the cost of oil will be a moot point as we will run out in between 15-60 years , some say possable even sooner .. more like 40-50 years is a safe bet .. then see how much it will cost ..

[MOVIEGEEK]

@BJ_M,
Who is using more fuel:a SUV pilot driving 40km to work and back or you in your econo-car(?) driving 250km?Unless you drive a motorcycle I would say you are.

Sorry to get off topic Roundabout.

[g_shocker182]

BJ_M, say that to this guy:

(and by the way, this is a toyota)

[Tommyknocker]

So, if management wants to do a number in a unionless society, the workers would be "on their own", so to speak. So if a boss put his hand, on any part of his body your mother, wife, daughter, etc, you react and may even spend time in jail for your actions. sound fair? If they decide to sue the dep pocketed company, the case will be in court for years. Unions clear up that crap in a weekend.