Degrading DVD-Rs???

[Jedi27]

hi,

I've heard rumours that DVD-Rs created by MACs and other systems may be rendered useless after a period of time (ie. under a year).

Is anyone else experiencing such issues?

I think this could be serious. btw, I'm not talking about scratches, blemishes or otherwise. Apparently, perfectly sound DVD-rs just stop working???

Cheers,
Jedi

[qshartle]

You might be getting two hings mixed up. Disney just realesed he dvd's you buy the degrade after 48 hrs. You can play them on a mac, I think you can copy them, I dont want to waste six bucks just to find out you cant.





Q

[thr33ve]

I would like to hear more about this! I personally have several discs that have no visible scratches or defects and have played fine for 1-2 months that now are starting to have problems. They seem to skip in some parts and then other parts i get a disc unreadable. this happens both on my ps2 and my sony dvd player. this is going to really boil my blood if all the money in backups goes to waste. even a decently scratched pressed dvd will still play fine for months or years.

could it be related to certain brands of dvd-r? or possible due to 4x media that isn't properly burned? i seem to have NO problems ever using apple media, but its so damned expensive. i seem to have the worst problems with memorex 4x stuff... they are going bad after only a few weeks it seems....

[galactica]

1. cheap media is known to go bad over time. ie $.80/cents per dvd! thats cheap. how long exactly? who knows, but just expect it.
2. it happens no matter what platform, pc or mac, its the medias fault, not the comptuer.
3. get good media $2.50-and up per disk. It is more resistant to degredation over time.

hope that answers your ?

[Jedi27]

Thanks Galactica. I appreciate the feedback.

[gmatov]

Galactica,

I'd like to see some evidence to prove that a 2.50 disk, and not an 83 cent disk that you are paying 2.50 for.

Everyone here seems to be reading their media with the same tools and geting the same data as to mfg., type, dye, etc.

I think you are paying more for the same disk under a "premium" name, as per the Memorex mentioned above.

I, for one, will not put my trust in ANY of the media being produced.

It will not be the first time we have been sold pie-in-the-sky.

Cheers,

George

[thayne]

Use ritek media, it's rated for 100 years and I have not had any problems with it

[gmatov]

Thayne,

Yeah, they say 100 years, but if you go to the site that ONLY talks about disks, they will tell you they have an, unburnt, shelf life of 7 years (or something ).

Now, be reasonable. How in hell can it last only 7 years on the spindle, but last 100 years after you torture it with a laser?

Yunz are gullible, with a capital G.

Cheers,

George

[WiseWeasel]

This is due to the light-sensitive dye that reacts with the laser light to change color and then permanently stays that color, indicating a 0 or 1 based on its reflectivity. Unburnt media is light-sensitive, and will degrade with exposure to normal lighting, until it is burnt, and the dye is permanently stabilized in either the 0 or 1 state. Once burnt by the laser, the dye should not react to normal light, though they can slowly degrade with exposure to direct sunlight. What Ritek is saying is that under normal circumstances, keeping media in their cases or spindles, the unburnt media will average more than 7 years. They might last a day if you placed it in direct sunlight upside-down, but under normal circumstances they will last more than 7 years. Same goes with the after-burning lifespan. They might last 100 years if stored at a proper temperature range protected from light, but place it in direct sunlight, and you'll be lucky to still be able to read it after a few weeks. This is why pressed CDs and DVDs are so much more rugged than recordable ones, since the data is contained in small physical pits on a metal substrate, that will not change in reflectivity with light exposure. They have a much higher reflectivity than the dyes used in recordable media, and so it takes a whole lot more abuse to get one to read incorrectly. Basically, with recordable media, one must be a lot more careful to store the discs in cool, dark places, keep discs in their jewel cases or spindles, and avoid scratches and direct light if you want them to work reliably for a long time.

[gmatov]

Weasel,

That's all well and good, but, if you go to the thread asking "How many of you have had media that has gone bad...?", you will find that the author stored his disks in cases, in the dark, and within 6 months, they are unreadable..

Others on the thread have had similar experience, with, virtually, every brand of disk.

I really find it hard to believe that the knowledgeable people here burn a DVD then lay it on the desktop data side up for a few weeks before they play them, or try to play them, again.

Why in the world would you believe a seller of disks as to their longevity? Note: Not manufacturer, seller, as there are more sellers than manufacturers, who insist on a lower price , and the maker also wrings every last cent out of the cost of manufacturing a spindle full.

And how would you imagine they test longevity? Ultraviolet? 100 years at normal levels, 1200 times that intensity, they're good a month later, they have a 100 year expected life span?

Bullshit, buddy, they're lying through their teeth. They haven't the foggiest notion how long they'll last, but if they can get you to believe you did something wrong, well, you're not going to sue , or even ask for a replacement of a defective product.

Emperor Caveat is in charge here, again.

Cheers,

George

[pants]

i haven't experienced this yet at all. i have 3-4 dvd's that i burned as soon as the 733 g4 's came out with the superdrives and these dvd-r's play still play fine, and it was apple media, the early apple media. i say that cause i had bad luck with apple media later on about 6 months later and stopped using it all togther. these disc have not been stored any particualr way, other than verticle and in their case.

[WiseWeasel]

And how would you imagine they test longevity? Ultraviolet? 100 years at normal levels, 1200 times that intensity, they're good a month later, they have a 100 year expected life span?

Bullshit, buddy...

Actually, yes, this is exactly how I would imagine they test longetivity, along with exposure to powerful oxidizers and solvents. After doing some research, however, I'm going to have to side with your view of this whose mess, and say it's a crap shoot out there. Caveat emptor indeed, though I'm not sure the buyer can really trust the most obvious indicators such as brand and price. For, now, I'm just going to worry about getting media that is compatible with most players, and hope they last long enough so that I can back them up on the next generation of optical media discs. My guess is, if you want your DVD-R media to last, shell out for the gold substrate discs, don't label or write on them, handle them as seldom as possible, wearing gloves if the data is that important, and keep them in a constantly cool, dry and dark place under a vacuum. Realistically, however, I'm going to keep going with the Pio discs (Pioneer's OEM brand), which go for about $1.50 each for 4x media in 100 packs. Ritek would be my next choice, as they seem very compatible as well.
[EDIT] I purchased a Pioneer A03 drive as soon as they came out, and have used discs for this whole time without any problems, from the cheapest, crappiest media out there (DVDPro) to Pioneer media and most options in between, and have never noticed media that passed the Toast verification step during the burning process suddenly start to fail after a period of time, without physical damage to it. [/EDIT]

[Cyrax9]

Well the Disney EZ-D's aare a whole 'nother story but this is interesting.

I haven't had any trouble with my DVD-R's, not to the point of an unreadabble Disc at least.

I boughht a huge spindle of 50 Opto-Disc DVD-R's which are supposed to be really good, they have an inkjet printable surface and the bottom has a "Purple" look to it.

Has anybody had any problems with these?

My biggest "problem Discs" seem to be Memorex though, while I may get one or two DVD-R coasters from them, if I use DVD-RAM that comes in a 3-Pack I'll get at LEAST one defective Disc! The ammount of "Media Replacement Requests" I've had to file with Memorex are just plain annoying.

I bought these Opto-Disc DVD-R's in the spring but haven't burned one yet (still using up what I have left from Memorex) so if anyone else has used them could they tell me their thoughts/impressions of the Discs?

I know leaving a Disc in direct sunlight is a good way to kill it, but ironically enough, even a Memorex Disc I had in direct sunlight for a few weeks played flawlessly in the unit I burned it in. (DMR-HS2) which was fairly odd.

I'd say the life of a DVD depends on how you treat it, obviously letting fido chew on it is a bad idea, I was playing a DVD-R I burned a few mnths ago with no problem, if anything this has been more of a problem with VHS than DVD, I don't know much about the "Purple Bottom" of the Disc except that these are supposed to be Panasonic Certifed and I haven't had any problems yet, usually a Disc coasters out during burning if it's going to die, I'm wonderign though, does the PS2 offically "Support" DVD-R because although I've played dics in my brohter PS2 just fine, they always seem a bit "off" in terms of quality, some won't play in my Mac period, but that's probably due to the Memorex Quality, I had a Non-Memroex Disc work just fine.

I don't think any DVD-R's I have have died in under a year, but it wouldn't surprise me if abused discs havee this problem, meaning discs that are leftt out of their cases and whatnot, thiis is a problem with storebougt DVD's as well, not just burned Discs, but if someone is storing a Disc in a cas eand it starts to degrade, I'd like to knw more about it.

[Anonymous98]

I usually make 3 copies on 3 different brands of DVD-R for backup/archival purposes. The chance of having all 3 copies from 3 different brands of DVDs go bad is extremely small. (I usually only use name brand discs from Sony, Maxell, Fuji, etc.) For further protection, I store some of the copies off-site.

If you want something more reliable than DVDs, however, consider a magneto-optical drive. You can't burn your iDVD projects onto these, but they're great for backup/archival purposes. Here's an interesting article:

MO Better Reliability Safe Storage