PAL to NTSC

[keith123]

how do you convert pal to ntsc?

thanks

[Baldrick]

Have you read all pal to ntsc topics???
http://www.google.com/search?hl=sv&ie=ISO-8859-1&domains=www.dvdrhelp.com&as_qdr=all&q...w.dvdrhelp.com

[keith123]

i read one of the guides from the link you gave but the process seems to be huge!

can i not simply run the movie through tmpgenc and select the ntsc template?......

thanks

[flaninacupboard]

well that will give you an NTSC output, but it'll look like crap.

This hobby is not easy..........

[FulciLives]

well that will give you an NTSC output, but it'll look like crap.

This hobby is not easy..........

I agree with flaninacupboard ... It is NOT that simple!

Here are two links that should provide you will all the INFO you will need on doing PAL to NTSC conversions:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433&highlight=

The process may seem LONG but it really is not all that HARD to do.

Good Luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[keith123]

ok, thanks guys

i will try using those guides, also i like to know why i am doing this instead of using tmpgenc!

u said that the quality would be crappy, ok....thats a good enough reason, but what causes the quality to be crap?

thanks again

keith

[FulciLives]

ok, thanks guys

i will try using those guides, also i like to know why i am doing this instead of using tmpgenc!

u said that the quality would be crappy, ok....thats a good enough reason, but what causes the quality to be crap?

thanks again

keith

Keith just read the guides. They DO involve using TMPGEnc (or CCE) but with the use of a AviSynth script and/or special settings etc.

Read the guides and I think it will make sense

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[steptoe]

Just assuming that you NEED to convert PAL to NTSC, do you have a DVD player that can play both ????

If so, then just burn it to a DVD, even if you put 2 movies per DVD, and want to mix formats, I can now easily mix PAL or NTSC on a single DVD using TMPGenc DVD Author - its a simple authorer, but until DVDLab gets a bit better, I'll stick to it

Even though DVDLab offers much better menu creation, and can let you mix PAL/NTSC on the same disc with just a warning, TMPGenc DVD Author refuses point blank to let you mix PAL/NTSC


Anyway, try using DVDPatcher, once you work out what the basic settings are, it does work



Try looking at the guides for AVISynth, its not very user friendly, but as it uses a script language, is pretty powerful. I have to get to grips with it yet, so can't give you advice, but there are scripts to convert PAL to NTSC, NTSC to PAL

[keith123]

i will try the different methods to see which i like..............i would still like to know what causes the crappy play back when you just use tmpgenc on its own however..........i like to know all i can, therefore i can have a better understanding of what i am doing and why i am doing it.

[FulciLives]

i will try the different methods to see which i like..............i would still like to know what causes the crappy play back when you just use tmpgenc on its own however..........i like to know all i can, therefore i can have a better understanding of what i am doing and why i am doing it.

If the PAL source is PROGRESSIVE then you can get away with JUST using TMPGEnc. You would select the NTSC template and be sure to check the option that says, "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION"

If you do that it will work and give you a PROGRESSIVE 23.976fps NTSC file in the end.

However you will still have to convert the audio with another program. The easiest way (which also works pretty well) is to use BeSweet and the BeSweet GUI. Just make sure you use the most current BETA versions of each ... do not use the so-called STABLE versions. You would then select the PRE-SET frame rate conversion that says PAL (25.000fps) to NTSC (23.976fps).

If your source audio is an AC-3 file then you can go straight from AC-3 to AC-3 or you can go from AC-3 to WAV. In the case of an original AC-3 audio file it of course makes the most sense to go from AC-3 to AC-3.

If your source audio is a WAV file then it is best to go from WAV to WAV and then convert the WAV to MP2 or AC-3 or LPCM if that is what you want. In fact if you do this step first you can enter the new WAV into TMPGEnc while doing the VIDEO and select either MP2 or LPCM output. If you want AC-3 audio then take your converted WAV file and convert to AC-3 audio with BeSweet.

Now if you DO NOT select the "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" in TMPGEnc then the original sound will match the converted video but the video will be choppy (i.e., not smooth) and this is NOT what you want.

Please note this method will only work properly if the original PAL video source is PROGRESSIVE. If you have an INTERLACED PAL video source then you will have to use an AviSynth AVS script. I'm not going to go into that here as it is covered in the two links I have provided earlier.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
One final tip ... if working with a PAL DVD and if using TMPGEnc as your MPEG-2/DVD encoder then when you use DVD2AVI to create your D2V file make sure you select TV scale (not PC scale) and RGB 24 (not YUV) for the output.
And last but not least ... DVD2AVI will almost always say that a PAL source is INTERLACED but you need to double check this visually (such as playing back the D2V in Gordian Knot or VirtualDub) because it seems that most PAL sources are usually PROGRESSIVE so in short you can't trust DVD2AVI when it says it is INTERLACED as it MAY in fact be PROGRESSIVE. This of course applies to DVD and MPEG-2 files. If you have an AVI source that is DivX or Xvid then changes are rather high (99%) that it is PROGRESSIVE and not INTERLACED.

[flaninacupboard]

the crappy quality is obvious when you think about it.
PAL shows frames 25 times a second.
NTSC show frames 30 times a second.

Imagine each frame is a photograph on the table in front of you. you have 25 pcitures, that's 1 second of PAL. now, i want you to turn that into 1 second of NTSC, that's 30 pictures. how are you going to do that? hmm. if you had a photocopier you could copy every fifth frame, then you'd have 30 instead of 25. yes, that works, but you see a frozen frame after every five, totally ruining motion.
That is what TMPGenc does if left on it's own, just copies every fifth frame.

[FulciLives]

the crappy quality is obvious when you think about it.
PAL shows frames 25 times a second.
NTSC show frames 30 times a second.

Imagine each frame is a photograph on the table in front of you. you have 25 pcitures, that's 1 second of PAL. now, i want you to turn that into 1 second of NTSC, that's 30 pictures. how are you going to do that? hmm. if you had a photocopier you could copy every fifth frame, then you'd have 30 instead of 25. yes, that works, but you see a frozen frame after every five, totally ruining motion.
That is what TMPGenc does if left on it's own, just copies every fifth frame.

flaninacupboard is absolutly correct HOWEVER you can use the method I described above as long as:

1.) The PAL source is PROGRESSIVE
2.) You check the "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" setting in TMPGEnc
3.) Convert the audio using BeSweet and BeSweet GUI

If the PAL source is INTERLACED then it isn't this easy. As I said, take a look at the website link I provided and make sure you COMPLETELY read through the thread that I linked too as well.

After that you will have all the info you need including more details on the method I gave above as well as a detailed method as to what to do when the PAL source is INTERLACED.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[pijetro]

Pal to NTSC?????

We must start clarifying what is the origin and what's the final product.

As far as VHS captures go, I've succesfully converted interlaced Pal to NTSC, via AviSynth, with relative ease....

AviSource("F:\capture.avi")
AssumeFps(23.976,true)
trim(0,23654)#or whatever the length of film
letterbox(8,8)
resampleaudio(48000)

All it does is slow the video stream down a touch. Run pulldown.exe when done.
As far as audio goes, open this script in CoolEdit, or Vdub, and save as .WAV.
Use your favourite audio encoder to convert to .MP2 or .AC3, and voila....


BTW, I don't see anything cast in stone that says 23.976fps has to be progressive. Obviously, in my case, it's interlaced, but because the encoder is doing alternate scanning, it doesn't seem to effect the final product...

[FOO]

I have often wondered how people can just
guess how things work and then report them as fact.
TMPGenc does not just duplicate every 4th frame
to go from 24 to 30.

[flaninacupboard]

well, i'm talking about 25->30, and i don't see what else it -could- do? perhaps it just makes 5 duplicate frames of frame 25 every second?

[pijetro]

I think though, there's a difference between adding frames, to make it 29.97, and speeding up the Pal source to 29.97. I suppose the latter can work, but it's ridiculously fast, and the first option would obviously give jerky playback....

So instead of speeding it up, (or as you might think, adding frames), just slow it down a touch from the Pal source..

Since 23.976fps Film is simply sped up to 25fps for Pal, why is it so hard to understand the concept of slowing back down to 23.976fps Film??

[FulciLives]

I have often wondered how people can just
guess how things work and then report them as fact.
TMPGenc does not just duplicate every 4th frame
to go from 24 to 30.

I must admit I'm not 100% sure of what TMPGEnc does when converting PAL to NTSC but it does "screw" things up unless you check the "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" thing. If you don't check that and you input a 25fps PAL source and use a NTSC template then it either drops and/or adds frames with the end result being jerky playback. Also I feel it only works well when the PAL source is PROGRESSIVE and you are encoding the NTSC as PROGRESSIVE. This way when you check the "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION" thing you get the same result as using the AviSynth command "AssumeFPS(23.976)"

Also if anyone cares to follow the LINKS I have provided there is a method (that was devised by Xesdeeni) that works very well with INTERLACED PAL source material in that you end up with a 29.970fps NTSC video that is "telecined" in such a way that it looks and plays smooth but matches the original PAL audio. This method is similiar to what a stand alone DVD player does when it convert PAL to NTSC ... such as the Cyberhome CH-DVD 500 or the MALATA models or the JVC models etc.

I've also done tests using an AviSynth script where I input an interlaced PAL source and then deinterlaced this source at 25fps (giving me a progressive 25fps input) and then converted that to progressive 23.976fps NTSC. This will give you a true PROGRESSIVE NTSC video but of course you wll loose some quality by deinterlacing this way so I think that Xesneedi's method is better UNLESS you have to watch the end result on a computer monitor. But for televisions Xesneedi's method is most likely the best.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[flaninacupboard]

why is it so hard to understand the concept of slowing back down to 23.976fps Film??

Is that comment aimed at me?
If so, i don't. I've been doing NTSC -> PAL conversions for a long time, and never remember asking for a step by step guide on the forums.....
The fact is that keith123 asked if he could

select the ntsc template?......

Which would indeed just give him a screwed 29.97 mpeg. he did not ask about the ntsc Film template. If if he had, he still needs to follow the guides because of the audio slowdown and where to check "do not frame..."

[pijetro]

No, of course it wasn't aimed at you. It's a general statement...

At 1100 replies and posts from your end, I think you'd deserve a little more respect than that.