s-video is NOT always better

[lordsmurf]

I just wanted to share some findings...

After trying to capture an old tape (with compound sync errors) for days, it turns out that using coax or RCA would yield better quality.

The s-video was washing out the signal and increasing the gamma so high to where I had more white than anything else on screen. No matter what I tried, nothing worked to fix it.

And the S-VHS player was causing more harm than good. I switched to using my good VHS player. The TBC was left, as it did help some WITHOUT adding more errors onto the already-degraded video signal.

The RCA is much better, and I'm gonna try coax here soon to see if it is better yet.

In general, I know s-video is better. But not this time. Not always.

[FOO]

I don't suppose you would be willing to try to expalin why this
might be ? Where was the tape recorded ?
You seem to be trying to tell us that SVideo is not as good as
Composite or modulated RF. That is of course insane.

[almostaborted]

not to hijack the thread, but are there any advantages to get a rca to s-video converter when trying to cap off a vhs tape? the vcr's output is just rca and i have plug for s-video into my computer

[lordsmurf]

I don't suppose you would be willing to try to expalin why this might be ? Where was the tape recorded ? You seem to be trying to tell us that SVideo is not as good as Composite or modulated RF. That is of course insane.

Oh, I'm willing.... I just don't know why myself... it makes zero sense.

The tapes are probably about 5th generation copies of a tv show. You know, a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.

Something in the signal is obviously destroyed, and much of the signal is degraded. The audio problems I can correct without a problem. My equipment can overcome most of the video issues... as long as it's using the RCA and not the s-video. I managed to get the image to still look fine with my JVC 9800 (with TBC in use) and the TBC working. But only RCA.

Clicking back and forth between connectors, the s-video looks like... well... shit. And the RCA is fine. Colors are there, not destroyed from washout.

And I tried both a 3800 and a 9800 JVC. It's only these tapes, nothing else. In the past, on simliar errors, I merely removed the TBC, as it was the enemy. On other occasions, it was the SVHS calibration not taking to the VHS tape, whereas a VHS player fixed it. This time, it was the s-video connector. Only on lossy copied tapes does this happen, but many of us own lossy many-times-over copied tapes.

Insane? Absolutely. But is it happening? Again, absolutely, those are my results.

I'm hoping myself that somebody has some ideas. This is an anomaly of sorts.

And to the hijacker, no, I don't see any advantage in doing that. Just use RCA cables or use s-video cables. Converting won't do anything for you.

[FOO]

If the signal is composite (RCA) the damage is already done.
Converting to SVideo won't help.

[thegig]

Funny you bring this up. I had the same problem with a set of tapes I had too. I didn't get the washout you described, I got distorted video. I did all the same things you did. I even used an old VHS player. I have no idea what caused it either. The only thing I can think of is signal degradation at a level that I can't grasp. I guess I could look at schematics and see how the hardware is interpretting the video and/or the separation of signals with S-Video. Other than that I just chalk it up to gremlins.

[g_shocker182]

Lord Smurf, you might just have a bad cable connection with S-Video. After all, theres a reason they put an "S" in front of it.

[GreyDeath]

Heh, I just came across the same conclusion for this post's title last night. I was capturing an 11 year old tape of music videos through S-Video with my ADVC-100 when I noticed the video signal was shakey and looking like crap. It was like there was a slight blurry double image as the video went on. The sound was also sounding like crap, but in that respect, I found it was the tape.

So I captured using my best old VHS deck through the regular RCA jacks and it looked much better (considering the age of the tape).

I'll still use S-Video for importing from a PVR or LD, but for some old tapes, RCA is the way to go. After all, it's less video noise that the capture box has to have fits over... :P

PS has anyone ever taken an old VHS tape and recorded it to S-Video, then captured it to see if it makes a difference in stablility?

[lordsmurf]

PS has anyone ever taken an old VHS tape and recorded it to S-Video, then captured it to see if it makes a difference in stablility?

I copied my tapes to pure S-VHS using two S-VHS machines with RCA (since the s-video looked bad) to see if the new copy would make a difference. Tried coax too. Nope. Didn't do a thing. The issue is embedded in the source itself, at least on my tapes I was having issues with.

All of my cables are the best I can afford, with all of them being Monster for the most part. All of them are in top condition.

I can only guess that a signal is degraded, Y Cr or Cb. Or crossover with audio and video. Part of the video signal is intermixed with the audio frequencies, and separation via s-video is removing that part of the video signal.

[FOO]

S-video separates the Chroma and Luma, not the video and audio :P

[lordsmurf]

S-video separates the Chroma and Luma, not the video and audio :P

True, true. I'm grasping for reasons so hard that fact slipped my mind. Duh. It's amazing what dumb things slip out when you rush.

What I should have said was the video signal may have overlap, and separating it was not being done properly.

I had the right intention, just the wrong words!

I've got to track down a buddy of mine and see what he knows. He's got a better grasp of analog hardware and wiring than I do.

[The village idiot]

The only way to get to the bottom of this, is to use an osciliscope to measure the level of the Y and C signals. You may also need to check the delay between the 2 signals.

[lordsmurf]

Here's a sample.
Everything is the same settings-wise.
Lowering/raising the s-video gamma/brightness does zilch.

RCA:


S-VIDEO:

[The village idiot]

Looks like a termination problem to me, except you can't control the termination can you?

Do other tapes look OK?

[lordsmurf]

Looks like a termination problem to me, except you can't control the termination can you? Do other tapes look OK?

I don't even know what a "termination error" is.
I have 12 total tapes that do this, from 3 different sources.
Other tapes are fine.

[Heavensent]

maybe the source is recorded differently?

it seems to me that if there is no sence in connecting rca to svideo,
(because you will not gain anything)
maybe its the same here?
if the source tape was not recorded in a way that svideo can use,
maybe the rca is the best option for this tape?

i dont really know what im talking about here, its just an idea.