USB2 vs IEEE 1394

[HoldThatTigerRag]

Is either prefered over the other for capturing?

I have done some reading and it appers that firewire has been prefered over USB, but does this pertain solely to USB1? I have also read that USB2 is faster than firewire.

I have been looking at Pinnacle Studio MovieBox USB and the DataVideo DAC-100, but I am not sure which device will suit my needs. What I am looking to do is capture from digital cable and regular cable, and well as transfer from VHS, then burn to DVD. Someone please help a newbie out!
Thanks
Bryan

My system
Dell Inspiron 5100
WinXP
P4 2.66GHz
60GB 4200 RPM Ultra ATA
512MB 266MHz
32MB ATi Mobility™ Radeon™ 7500
CD/DVD+RW/+R

[thayne]

Well, you don't capture DV, you transfer it. If the DataVideo DAC-100 is USB 2 then you have to use USB, if it's Firewire then you have to use Firewire. Either is fine for transfering DV

The devices you mention do the analog to DV conversion on board then transfer it to your PC either FW or USB. So the transfer method really doesn't matter. I would research which product does a better job.

[yg1968]

Neither firewire or USB allows you to capture. However, both allow transfers of video data. Many digital camcorders have a firewire port but not a USB 2.0 port. Because of this, firewire remains the preferred choice for transfering video.

You should note that the digital camcorder captures the DV and the firewire cable merely transfers the DV to the computer.

Some capture cards plug into the firewire port (for example the Canopus ADVC-100) but the capture card captures and the firewire merely transfers the data.

[FL350innh]

Is either prefered over the other for capturing?

I have done some reading and it appers that firewire has been prefered over USB, but does this pertain solely to USB1? I have also read that USB2 is faster than firewire.

I have been looking at Pinnacle Studio MovieBox USB and the DataVideo DAC-100, but I am not sure which device will suit my needs. What I am looking to do is capture from digital cable and regular cable, and well as transfer from VHS, then burn to DVD. Someone please help a newbie out!
Thanks
Bryan

My system
Dell Inspiron 5100
WinXP
P4 2.66GHz
60GB 4200 RPM Ultra ATA
512MB 266MHz
32MB ATi Mobility™ Radeon™ 7500
CD/DVD+RW/+R

HTTiger,
Firewire has been tried and true to most who have used it... USB2 has historically been the subject of problem post more then FW. I have the DAC 100... Works great. But keep this in mind. DV (native for the DAC100 720x480 NTSC) is about 20GB per hour. That being said basically I'm thinking 1.5 hours capped would be a rough limit if you wanted to be able to edit and put into mpeg and burn to DVD. Don't forget you'll need a fair amount of swap space and caching space for when you render a DVD project. Unless you can find a way to make your captures use less disc space with the DAC100 you may want to look at something that can use MPEG2 to capture in. otherwise you'll run out of space fairly quick. So with the space issue in mind you may still need to consider a USB device...

[thayne]

I looked over the specs or both and if it were me I would go with the DAC-100. It captures to DV where the Pinacle capture to Mpeg-2, which is already compressed and not really suitable for editing, at least not full quality. DV is lossless and can be edited without quality loss then encoded to mpeg-2 later for DVD output.

[MOVIEGEEK]

IEEE 1394 is the standard for transfering DV from a camcorder but for your needs I would use a PCI card such as the DAC-100 or the Leadtek 2000XP($50USD)

[FL350innh]

IEEE 1394 is the standard for transfering DV from a camcorder but for your needs I would use a PCI card such as the DAC-100 or the Leadtek 2000XP($50USD)

The DAC 100 is an external unit which would need to be connected to the laptop by use of a IEEE 1394 Which according to the Dell site that laptop has it built in..... The DAC is about $188.00 US...

[coyote]

Neither usb2 or ieee 1394 capture......they are just different methods of sending data from one device to another.

IEEE 1394 has been around a little longer and is incorporated into most digital video equipment.

IEEE 1394 is slightly slower than USB2 (only slightly) but the speed is constant. In USB2 the speed is aquired through bursts (like when you first connect to a server, the initial burst speed is faster than the remaining time you are connected to it)

IEEE 1394 is pretty much standard on macs for years now, and is becoming more popular on pc's (without buying a card)

All in all, I would go with IEEE 1394. If you find you don't like it...you can pick up a pc card for like 30 dollars so don't fret.

[Rich927]

From what I understand, USB 2 is as fast as firewire. That said, the more USB devices you have, the less bandwidth for each device which in turn, would affect the speed. Firewire is tried and true.

[thayne]

You may also look at this one. It cost a bit more, but I have heard good things about it

http://www.canopus.com/US/products/advc-100/pm_advc-100.asp

[HoldThatTigerRag]

Thanks for your replies!!

Someone wrote, "you don't capture DV, you convert it".
I understand that DV is the format used for most digital camcorders, but am I getting this correctly... The DAC-100 will input A/V from the TV, then transfer it to DV on the laptop via IEEE 1394?

How big of a difference is there between the file sizes of DV and MPEG2? Is there an extreme quality difference? Is a MPEG2 file ready to be burned to DVD, or does it need to be converted to something else first, how about DV? Also, I think I have read that some people have a hard time editing MPEG2 but DV seams to be easier.

If firewire/DV is a better route, but the only draw back is disk space, I could fork out the cash for an external HDD later down the road. Exactly how much of a HDD space problem would I be looking at with over 55 GB free?

Thanks again for your help!

[thayne]

How big of a difference is there between the file sizes of DV and MPEG2? Is there an extreme quality difference? Is a MPEG2 file ready to be burned to DVD, or does it need to be converted to something else first, how about DV? Also, I think I have read that some people have a hard time editing MPEG2 but DV seams to be easier.

File size difference is huge. Mpeg-2 is already compressed DVD ready, but that limits your editing abilities and the quality will probably not be as good as software encoded mpegs.

There is an extreme quality differnce.

I would get a big HD and go with the DV, then when you are done editing it use a software encoder to make the DVD mpeg-2.

I cant remember how much disk space is used per minute, but 55Gigs shoulr be enough to work with 1 hour of DV.

[pixel]

How big of a difference is there between the file sizes of DV and MPEG2? Is there an extreme quality difference? Is a MPEG2 file ready to be burned to DVD, or does it need to be converted to something else first, how about DV? Also, I think I have read that some people have a hard time editing MPEG2 but DV seams to be easier.

There can be a varying difference. DV is lightly compressed (big file sizes) and MPEG 2 is heavily compressed (small file sizes) but MPEG2 can be compressed with different bitrates to give different qualities but not as good as DV.

DV is easier to edit, plus, if you were going to edit you are better to use DV and later encode to MPEG2 to give the best quality. If you capture in MPEG2 and transcode after you have edited the quality will not be that brilliant.

[gmatov]

Rich,

If you have a USB printer and a USB scanner, you wouldn't be printing and scanning while you're capping or transferring data, would you? So the bandwidth would all go to that device and that app.

You'd halve your throughput if you connected 2 1394 devices and tried to use them at the same time.

I have no firewire. But, as everyone says DV is 13 gigs per hour, if you divide that by 3600 ( seconds ) you get 3.611 megabytes per second, not exactly firewire's capacity.

Is Win's calculator wrong, or am I missing something?

[harrymj3]

I have a Pinnacle Moviebox DV (firewire) and A Pinnacle Moviebox USB (usb2). If I was going to own just one of them it would be the usb2 model. The captures (transfers that is , for all of you extremely anel folks out there) are small. The video quality is very good and fully adjustable. The files are easily cut and rencoded with the new version of TMPGEnc. It is also very stable and I can't say that about the firewire version. That's my two cents worth. .... harrymj3

[thayne]

The files are easily cut and rencoded with the new version of TMPGEnc. It is also very stable and I can't say that about the firewire version.

The problem is you are re-encoding already compressed video, those of us who are anal about quality don't like that :P

[harrymj3]

It gives very good results without so much hastle. The reason I have both units is that when I just want a really good quality capture without an adventure in computing involved I use the usb2 unit. When I get bored and want something more challanging I use the firewire unit. I like them both but I based my recomendation his computer being what it is and for the job he Wants to do. ............. harrymj3

[HoldThatTigerRag]

1 hr of DV would fill up 55 gigs?! That is mighty big...

So trying to capture a football game with the DAC-100 would be impossible for me with my current drive? Would 3+ hrs of MPEG2 fit on my current drive? How much space would i need to work with that as I am sure that would be the biggest file I would capture. Roughly how big would one hour of MPEG-2 be?

[MOVIEGEEK]

1 hr of DV would fill up 55 gigs?! That is mighty big...
...Roughly how big would one hour of MPEG-2 be?

One hour of DV is approx. 13GB and an hours worth of MPEG-2 depends on the bitrate.Look in "Tools" to your left for DVDRhelp.com Bitrate Calculator.

[HoldThatTigerRag]

Ok, i think i am confused. Roughly how many gigs am I looking at if I wanted to record a 3+ hr. football game, edit out commercials, convert to MPEG2 then burn to DVD?

[HoldThatTigerRag]

I didnt specify, but I meant capture 3+ hr. game in DV, edit, etc.....

Thanks for everyone answering my questions. It has been a great help so far!!

[thayne]

1 hr of DV would fill up 55 gigs?! That is mighty big...

So trying to capture a football game with the DAC-100 would be impossible for me with my current drive? Would 3+ hrs of MPEG2 fit on my current drive? How much space would i need to work with that as I am sure that would be the biggest file I would capture. Roughly how big would one hour of MPEG-2 be?

No, I meant 55GB would give you plenty of room to work with 1 hour of DV, like editing and encoding to mpeg-2. I couldn't remember how big a 1 hour DV file was; 13GB sounds about right so you could actually work with 2-3 hours without problems

[spectroelectro]

Firewire (IEEE1394) has been around for a while and works very well. All the bugs have been ironed out of it, and it works particularly well for trasnferring video in DV format.
I own the Canopus ADVC-100 and it rocks. Great unit, never any problems.
If I were you I would go with IEEE1394 instead of USB 2.0.
Wait a second, though... If you are capturing a 3+ hour video, you will need 13 gigs per hour x 3 hours which comes to at least 40 gigs. If you avhea 55 gig hard drive you would not even have enough room to edit the video, sicne you must typically do a render to a file of equal size after editing. That means you would need an absolute minimum of 40 gigs + g40 gigs + more space for the MPEG-2 files. That's around 90 gigs minimu if you want to edit the capturing DV footage at all.
IMPORTANT POINT: If you are a using a laptop, you shoudl definitely get a large secondary drive and capture to that. You should NEVER capture video to your main OS drive. Windows always writes to the OS drive intermittantly adn this can produce fragmented blocks. In fact, the rule of thumb is that your OS drive will always be fragmented because Windows constantly writtes to it.
So do yourself a favor and get a second large hard disk, at least 80 gigs, preferably more, to do nothing but capture video to. That way you won't have to worry about defragging the capture drive, or dropping frames because the OS is busy writing ot the disk.

[thayne]

Most editing software allows you to encode to mpeg withought first saving a new avi. He's going to be pushing it with only 55GB's but it can be done.

[Dragonsf]

If you use AviSynth as "Editor", there is even no additional file at all.
Only the files used by the mpeg encoder, which are reasonable small.
So I'll end up with 40GB DV avi+1.5 wave +4GB mpv+4GB result+300MB ac3=50GB HD space for 3h footage(raw).

[HoldThatTigerRag]

Thanks for your replies. It has been a great help!

I believe I have decided to go with the DAC-100 and an extra drive. I have been shopping around for an 80 GB, but then I ran into this Ibm or maxtor 120GB 7200RPM with Firewire IEEE 1394 External Case. When I clicked buy now, the IBM one came up. The 80GB ones I have seen have been at least that price, and some a whole lot more. Anyone had any experiences with this brand, or recommend any others?
Thanks

[Dragonsf]

DAC 100 and external FW drives don't work good together.Be prepared for a lot of dropped frames.
Consider any WD UDMA 100 drives with 8MB cache.The come also with a 3year warranty (which IBM and Maxtor don't).

[FL350innh]

DAC 100 and external FW drives don't work good together.Be prepared for a lot of dropped frames.
Consider any WD UDMA 100 drives with 8MB cache.The come also with a 3year warranty (which IBM and Maxtor don't).

Dragonsf,
I'm using an external Maxtor FW dirve and I have no problems. I think the issue is when you take the DV converter and put it in line with the drive. I have 3 ports so I run the drive off one of the 3 ports and the DV converter off the 2nd. If you don't have extra ports then I'd try an IEEE 1394 port repeater....