VCD Format Newbie, Please Help!!!

[minky]

I have just bought a new DVD player with VCD/SVCD playback compatibility, which on first couple of tryouts, played back VCD's that I had burned in Nero in black and white. I did a little bit of reading through this forum, and came to the conclusion that it was a PAL/NTSC issue (I am in the UK (am I right in thinking PAL/NTSC are just different 'frames per second' formats used in different countries?)). I downloaded a copy of TMPGEnc, and encoded the video file into VCD PAL format, then copied the file onto a (Nero) InCD formatted CDRW. This did not work. I tried again burning the TMPGEnc encoded file onto the CDRW as a VCD in Nero, which has worked (plays, plays back in colour).

Have I gone about this the right way? Sure, I have a functioning VCD now, but that seems a very time consuming method. Is there a way to encode into PAL format in Nero, or am I going to have to encode a file in TMPGEnc and then burn it in Nero afterwards every time? The encoding process in TMPGEnc seems to take almost the full length of the MPEG/AVI time to encode a PAL/VCD file, which seems a little excessive. And why can one not simply chuck the file onto a blank CD as data when it has been encoded as such?

Also, am I right in thinking that CD capacity for VCD format is based (like an audio CD) on minutes playing time? I downloaded an MPEG of 432mb and an AVI of about 100mb, both 45 minutes in playing length, under the assumption that it would be based upon file size. It appears in Nero to suggest not. Is it not possible to get more than about 70 minutes or so onto a CD/VCD? I have tried to reduce the bitrate in TMPGEnc which gives the appearance that the file will then fit on one VCD disc, however, when encoded, it is still too large (incidentally, if anyone could recommend a minimum bitrate one should encode to, to still get a decent picture, would be of great help).

I am obviously new to all this video CD stuff and am finding it terribly confusing, so if anyone can give me a few pointers would be hugely appreciated. Is there not a more idiot-friendly encoder/vcd formatter available than TMPGEnc? It seems like a wonderfully featured/versatile free program, but seems to assume the users confidence in understanding video properties.

Thank for any help,

M.

[poopyhead]

(am I right in thinking PAL/NTSC are just different 'frames per second' formats used in different countries?

kinda...the fps is different, as is the resolution.

https://www.videohelp.com/vcd

https://www.videohelp.com/svcd

then copied the file onto a (Nero) InCD formatted CDRW. This did not work.

of course this won't work....because you're simply burning the .mpg file as a DATA CD...most DVD players can't read raw .mpg files.

I tried again burning the TMPGEnc encoded file onto the CDRW as a VCD in Nero, which has worked (plays, plays back in colour).

yes...as opposed to above, this would be the correct way to burn a .mpg file. DVD players can only read .mpg files authored as (S)VCD (i.e. using nero's (S)VCD templates)....most DVD players will not simply read the .mpg files burned on CD-Rs as DATA CD.

Is there a way to encode into PAL format in Nero, or am I going to have to encode a file in TMPGEnc and then burn it in Nero afterwards every time?

no..that's basically the standard procedure....most ppl follow it. you need to get used to it...once you try it couple of times, it becomes second-nature. nero does have its own encoder, but the quality is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. the only encoders you should really use are tmpgenc and CCE.

The encoding process in TMPGEnc seems to take almost the full length of the MPEG/AVI time to encode a PAL/VCD file, which seems a little excessive.

not really...depends on how powerful your CPU is. on my AMD Athlon 650 Mhz CPU, it takes about 12 hrs to encode a 2+ hour movie. most ppl just leave the encoding overnight while they're sleeping...or while they goto work.

And why can one not simply chuck the file onto a blank CD as data when it has been encoded as such?

see above. most dvd players do NOT simply recognize raw .mpg files burned on DATA CDs. most dvd players require the file/disc structure of authored (S)VCDs to play those .mpg files. however, this shouldn't be too big of a deal for you since nero's (S)VCD template is really easy to use (only drag-and-drop)

Also, am I right in thinking that CD capacity for VCD format is based (like an audio CD) on minutes playing time?

no....the only determinant is FILESIZE. mode 2 burning (i.e. for (S)VCDs) allows you to fit a 800 MB (actually, there's some overhead...so maybe 795.61 MB) .mpg file onto a 80 min CD-R. this is opposed to the regular mode 1 burning for DATA and AUDIO in which you can only fit 700 MB onto a 80 min CD-R.

you can also overburn the CD-R, which may add an extra 20-30 MB above the 800 MB limit, but this may damage your burner and cause the disc to be un-readable.

[D_Knife]

Also adding one more thing onto what poopyhead mentioned.
You didn't mention where you are in the world
The reason I mention this is that where I am in Australia most if not all DVD players that support VCD/SVCD are also capable of doing format conversion on the fly - ie changing NTSC into PAL or vice-versa
However most of them are set on PAL only - have a good dig through the setup menu's of the DVD player you might just save some time.

[poopyhead]

You didn't mention where you are in the world

uhum....

I did a little bit of reading through this forum, and came to the conclusion that it was a PAL/NTSC issue (I am in the UK (am I right in thinking PAL/NTSC are just different 'frames per second' formats used in different countries?)).

[D_Knife]

whoops

[minky]

Thanks poopyhead, that has just about cleared things up, just one thing I still don't quite understand; I have downloaded two versions of the same DivX (a format I don't entirely understand, am I right in thinking it is just an additional compression applied to the .avi?) movie (which I do have on VHS if that makes it any more morally admissable); one of which is 700mb the other 332mb, and both with a playing time of 91 minutes and 23 seconds. Why then, when I try to write as VCD in Nero, does the size capacity meter in mb for either file go way off the scale? (above and beyon 750mb). How can I get the movie onto a single VCD? You say "the only determinant is FILESIZE" yet I cannot put a 332mb file onto a VCD. Am I being dim? Like I said in my first post; I tried to reduce the bitrate whilst enconding in TMPGEnc (via some blind guesswork) which gave the appearance that the file would subsequently fit on one VCD disc, however, when encoded, it is still too large according to Nero.

Thanks again.

[poopyhead]

DIVX is just another compression algorithm....it uses MPEG-4

MPEG-1 (ie VCD)

MPEG-2 (ie SVCD, DVD)

MPEG-3 (ie get sued by RIAA )

MPEG-4 (ie xVID, DIVX)

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back to your problem.....

you have a divx, which is MPEG-4 (with .avi file extension). however, you can only burn MPEG-1 files (with .mpg file extension) to VCDs.

when i say the only determinant is FILESIZE, i am referring to .mpg files. depending on the bitrate (quality) you use, you can fit as much as 120 min on a single CD-R (extremely low bitrate, crappy quality) or as little as 15 min on a single CD-R (extremely high bitrate, DVD-like quality) ...however, both files will have a max of 800 MB...

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there are 2 things you can do with the DIVX .avi file

1) burn it as raw DATA CD .avi file. most dvd players will NOT be able to read this. however, there are some new dvd players coming out that do have DIVX & xVID support.

2) covert the .avi into MPEG-1 file and then burn that onto VCD. keep in mind VCD's quality isn't very good. you should try burning them to SVCD if your player supports it, and you would need to split the movie onto 2 CD-Rs....because SVCDs only look good if you fit about 45 - 50 min MAX per CD (and your movie is 90+ min.) even a standard, compliant VCD can only hold 80 min per CD. again, even though i'm giving you the max minutes to fit on 1 CD, the bottom line is still filesize (800 MB/CD)

this is because it just happens that at standard VCD bitrate (1150 kbit/s), 80 min of video will fit exactly on 1 VCD. for SVCD, you need to manually adjust the bitrate to what you like. however, i personally think you shouldn't go too far below 2 mbit/s, as the quality will deteriorate. however, with a higher bitrate, you will fit less and less video per CD-R.

dvd player info: https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers

download VCD and SVCD samples here:

https://www.videohelp.com/vcd

https://www.videohelp.com/svcd

guides to convert to VCD:

https://www.videohelp.com/tmpgenc.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/panasonic.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/lsxvcd.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/91597.php

guides to convert to SVCD:

https://www.videohelp.com/tmpgencsvcd.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/111846.php

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/119210.php

https://www.videohelp.com/lsxsvcd.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/avitovcdfoolproofusingcce/