Slashdot article - DVD-R more compatible

[housepig]

confirming what we already know...

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/07/20/1624209.shtml?tid=137&tid=188

[BJ_M]

oh here we go again !!!


(nice post housepig , but im moving it to media section)

[housepig]

oh here we go again !!!

not trying to start a war - seriously. just thought it was an article people might want to see.

im moving it to media section

...where it should have been in the first place - my bad!

[Tommyknocker]

I enjoyed reading it. Me and my DVD-R!

[Jukka]

Hmm, some interesting results from which I can only draw two comments:

1) The Phillips DVD890 standalone recorder seems to make the least compatible DVD+R discs out of the +R recorders - now that IS a surprise;
2) If you pick any of the main DVD standalone recorder manufacturers (Phillips, Sony, Toshiba, Pioneer, Panasonic) and compare the results across formats / machines you get nearly 100% compatibility. Maybe these guys stick to the standards more rigidly, dunno. Just means stick to the major boys and you probably won't go wrong.

Funny how they didn't test DVD-RAM, LOL!!

J

[tompika]

confirming what we already know... .

not trying to start a war - seriously. just thought it was an article people might want to see.

Well, this test was first posted (linked correctly, straight to cdrinfo) FOUR DAYS AGO by PhilipL with no comment
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=584983&highlight=cdrinfo#584983

It`s been at the Latest guides / how to's / tutorials or video articles for a while.

After, you come here with that cutting remark and want me to believe you?

Now I`ve been reading that test for four days and I do have some thoughts but I`m NOT gonna play stupid war games with you, I just leave it like that.

[housepig]

Well, this test was first posted (linked correctly, straight to cdrinfo) FOUR DAYS AGO by PhilipL with no comment
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=584983&highlight=cdrinfo#584983

It`s been at the Latest guides / how to's / tutorials or video articles for a while.

I don't read every single post on this site. I missed that thread.

After, you come here with that cutting remark and want me to believe you?

Now I`ve been reading that test for four days and I do have some thoughts but I`m NOT gonna play stupid war games with you, I just leave it like that.

I don't care if you believe me or not... I could not care less about a format war, because a) I know what works for me, and b) I've got a dual format burner in any case.

However, I saw that pop up on Slashdot, I thought it would be interesting to someone here, and didn't realize it was a retread of something already posted.

And if you think I want to play "war games", well, there are plenty of those threads - I invite you to find any inflamatory post from me in any of them.

[BJ_M]

housepig -- i missed the other post also and thanks ,, i enjoyed reading it ...

when i said "here we go again!!" - i was just adding humour . nothing directed at you ... this silly dvd-r and dvd+r "war" is always a hot topic ..

of course we all already know dvd-r is clearly the best and dvd+r disks should all de-laminate..

[housepig]

when i said "here we go again!!" - i was just adding humour . nothing directed at you ... this silly dvd-r and dvd+r "war" is always a hot topic ..

BJ_M -

no problems, I followed you perfectly.

glad you enjoyed the article, at least....

[tompika]

this silly dvd-r and dvd+r "war" is always a hot topic ..

of course we all already know dvd-r is clearly the best and dvd+r disks should all de-laminate..

Now here we go.

A venerable starts it (look at the way he did) supported by a moderator (that should be neutral) wait for some troublemaker and when the flames are high enough another one locks it.

I`m glad that you guys enjoy each other.

[thxkid]

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

[tompika]

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

Wait!
I`ve heard this somewhere.
Oh, yeah. It`s me.
I`ve been telling people the same thing about myself and my beloved Memorex burner.

How come these test guys always get different results than we do?
I guess we are just the lucky ones....

[disturbed1]

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

Same results here with my A03 and A05. Makes you wonder, is it the format, or is it the user?

[Bob W]

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

Well your DVD+R disc should play on any player since the media costs twice as much. Myself I can go both ways however because of media pricing I do more DVD-R that +R.

[The village idiot]

+R/RW is the only format that matters!
All the rest are crap!

[Bob W]

I think in the end Beta will win.

[indolikaa]

when i said "here we go again!!" - i was just adding humour . nothing directed at you ... this silly dvd-r and dvd+r "war" is always a hot topic ..

You know why it's a hot topic? Because DVD-R sucks and people just can't learn to accept that!

I have, however, been very nervous about using DVD+R lately. Housepig reported that DVD+R users would find themselves in an everlasting lake of fire while being kicked in the eyes by the sweay sneakers of pus-filled baboons.

Maybe it's time to look into DVD-RAM.

[vitualis]

this silly dvd-r and dvd+r "war" is always a hot topic ..

of course we all already know dvd-r is clearly the best and dvd+r disks should all de-laminate..

Now here we go.

A venerable starts it (look at the way he did) supported by a moderator (that should be neutral) wait for some troublemaker and when the flames are high enough another one locks it.

I`m glad that you guys enjoy each other.

There are many ways you can express this sentiment, but I'll just be brief...

It was a joke, an obvious joke. BJ_M was being sarcastic. You can post/link to whatever technical article you want to.

[rhetorical question]Why are there so many people on this board who can't see a joke even when it is so obvious that it pokes them in the face?[/rhetrorical question]

Furthermore, singling out a single post and saying "why didn't you see that" is really rather silly. There are on average over 850 posts per day: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/statistics.php

As to why you think that study is flawed, go right ahead. We're all interested in what you have to say.

It think that the study is fairly comprehensive. The +R media is not as compatible as -R media though if you are talking about new machines, it is irrelevant.

The difference in compatibility has really always been with first and second generation machines and drives -- and that's what it showed. How important is this? Not much.

Many people who are enthusiasts in the field will probably have updated to a newer player and your average mum and dad may well have only bought a RECENT DVD player. However, there are your average Joes out there who was a relatively early adopter (i.e., with a first gen. player) and who isn't keen on buying a new player (that does nothing new except support more media types). For these people, the +/- compatibility issue may be an issue.

In any case, one of the conclusions of the study was that the marketing given to the +R format is unfounded. That is, the DVD Alliance has always stated that the +R format was "designed" to be more compatible, with a "nudge-nudge" type suggestion that it WAS more compatible. It obviously isn't.

But does it matter? I don't think so -- as compatibility is essentially universal with modern players and there are dual-format burners now as well. However, some people continue to be annoyed with the dodgey PR that sometimes accompanies the + format, and I think they are allowed to be annoyed (but don't start another flamewar please!)

Regards.

[tompika]

As to why you think that study is flawed, go right ahead. We're all interested in what you have to say.

1. All right let`s start, for example these guys could not make the PANASONIC RV 32 PLAYER read any of their 2.4xDVD+RW media.
I`ve personally tested this player with two different brands (RICOHJPNW01, PHILIPS.001)
Another TWELVE positive reports can be found here regarding its ability to read them
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1069&Search=Search&#comments.
I could probably find more contradiction if I had more time.

2. They updated firmwares that is used for improving media compatibility but they somehow forgot to use the bitsetting that serves the SAME purpose and no danger at all (when flashing drives is dangerous) and can be done in seconds. On standalones even via remote control.

3. Did not include the definitely best plus writer, saying Ricoh had not supported them in the past. They could probably get it if they wanted to, the same way they got the Ricoh 5125 (was used as a player)

4. Comparing an $800 standalone to a $400 one is not the same weight devision.

5. No exact media codes? The medias they wanted to use were not available for them?

At this point I need no further consideration to question the reliability of this test.

It think that the study is fairly comprehensive.

Of course! They say what you wanna hear.

Furthermore, singling out a single post and saying "why didn't you see that" is really rather silly. There are on average over 850 posts per day:

He wouldn`t have to check 4x850 posts it was right on front page.

Look another warrior just crossposted. How about tomorrow?
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169372
When a newbie asks something that is obvious for you five old members jump on him : Read the damn guides. Do a forum search. (And they are right)

It was a joke, an obvious joke. BJ_M was being sarcastic.

Instead of keeping the peace. Should be moderating and checking already banned people coming back and shout DIE, DIE.....

[rhetorical question]Why are there so many people on this board who can't see a joke even when it is so obvious that it pokes them in the face?[/rhetrorical question]

You are refering to your discussions with Kennyshin. I think he has much more to say about this plus-minus thing than you do.
I guess I`m just a boneheade dolt

some people continue to be annoyed with the dodgey PR that sometimes accompanies the + format, and I think they are allowed to be annoyed

Check my posts I talk about my firsthand experiences.

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

Wait!
I`ve heard this somewhere.
Oh, yeah. It`s me.
I`ve been telling people the same thing about myself and my beloved Memorex burner.

How come these test guys always get different results than we do?
I guess we are just the lucky ones....

Really. How come we could maintain 100% compatibility?

[trillium]

Really. How come we could maintain 100% compatibility?

In all reality, 100% compatibility is a fable. You will never have ALL of your discs burn successfully 100% of the time and work in 100% of ALL DVD players.

All manufacturers are just DIFFERENT! While people can pick and choose the media they wish to burn on, the drives they wish to burn with, and the stand-alones they play the burned disc on....

You get my jest. Any study will always be just that, a study using CERTAIN types of media/burners/players. A person's experience with '100%' compatibility is the EXACT combination that works FOR THEM!

That is what it is all about. What I've seen exhibited time and time again is not just a friendly discussion about the difference in formats, which format works on which player, on and on, yadda, yadda but a glaring all out flameware regarding which is better.

Who cares which is better!?! AS LONG AS IT WORKS!!!!

[housepig]

vitualis wrote:

Furthermore, singling out a single post and saying "why didn't you see that" is really rather silly. There are on average over 850 posts per day:

He wouldn`t have to check 4x850 posts it was right on front page.

wow... think of it, I missed a post, even though it was on the front page.

unthinkable! I'll just have to start reading every single post on the front page, even if it's absolutely irrelevant to me....

get a grip.

[tompika]

In all reality, 100% compatibility is a fable. You will never have ALL of your discs burn successfully 100% of the time and work in 100% of ALL DVD players.
A person's experience with '100%' compatibility is the EXACT combination that works FOR THEM!

You might be right.

HOUSEPIG!
I wouldn`t say a word if it was posted without that confirming what we already know... attitude.
Take a look at PhilipL`s post

I`d be happy to discuss it but you need to loose that attitude first

[vitualis]

I've unlocked this post... I'm going to allow tompika to have his rant as I asked him to do so and I don't think that its a full raging flamewar... yet (and don't make it one!)

As to why you think that study is flawed, go right ahead. We're all interested in what you have to say.

1. All right let`s start, for example these guys could not make the PANASONIC RV 32 PLAYER read any of their 2.4xDVD+RW media.
I`ve personally tested this player with two different brands (RICOHJPNW01, PHILIPS.001)
Another TWELVE positive reports can be found here regarding its ability to read them
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1069&Search=Search&#comments.
I could probably find more contradiction if I had more time.

And yet in their experiment, it couldn't read the discs. What does this show? Possibilities:

1. They were incompetent in making DVDs
   But: well they got the majority of their DVDs working in most players didn't they?
   
2. They had a bad batch of discs
   But: the same + discs worked in many other players
   
3. You happened to test a magical player
   But: well, I don't believe in magic
   
4. That player isn't compatible with every media brand and they just happened to choose the "wrong" (insofar as not compatible with that player) brands
   But: your personal test with two types of media is more conclusive right?

What is the most likely answer?

2. They updated firmwares that is used for improving media compatibility but they somehow forgot to use the bitsetting that serves the SAME purpose and no danger at all (when flashing drives is dangerous) and can be done in seconds. On standalones even via remote control.

Good point and quite valid. However, one questions why there is a need for an option (that is not the default) for improving "media compatibility" at all. If you prefer to consider the testers as neophytes (you are well entitled to), I think that is fair. But a lot or your average users out there are neophytes as well so in a sense, the test is not entire "invalid". It just doesn't answer the question of bitsetting.

3. Did not include the definitely best plus writer, saying Ricoh had not supported them in the past. They could probably get it if they wanted to, the same way they got the Ricoh 5125 (was used as a player)

It's very glib to call something the "definitely best plus writer" when it wasn't tested. In any case, I don't believe it is relevant. The test was on the spectrum of DVD writers of both standands and to get a feel of the general compatibility. Even if the Ricoh writer was magic and produced 100% compatibility (unlikely), it wouldn't have changed the statistics much. It would have made an interesting conclusion, however (as in why all the other + writers are crap...)

As to why they couldn't get the Ricoh writer, who knows! I presume CDInfo gets their drives from the manufacturer for testing purposes. I think it is somewhat that of a consipiracy theory to try to suggest reasons other than what was stated. Even if it was something else, I doubt very much it was a deliberate attempt to "harm" the stats for the + technology.

4. Comparing an $800 standalone to a $400 one is not the same weight devision.

There is some merit but since the issue was the general compatibility of the format, I don't think it necessarily matters. Unless I'm mistaken, the price difference is really more about the features of the stand-alone than any supposed improved format compatibility.

5. No exact media codes? The medias they wanted to use were not available for them?

I'm not entire sure what you mean (feel free to elaborate if you will). In any case, people obsess too much about media codes. They are not always reliable or mean anything in particular (read defence's experiences with his Philips vs. Verbatim CMC media).

At this point I need no further consideration to question the reliability of this test.

I think you are picking at straws to find fault with the survey and are missing the big picture. The big picture is that when these guys got a handful (a quite reasonable handful) of commercially available, burners, media and drives, that they got the results they did. Ultimately, what they did in terms of burning DVDs is not too different from what an ordinary consumer would do.

What did the results show? Nothing surprising really.

• Modern drives read just about everything and have near 100% compatibility
• For "non-compatible" drives, you can usually find a media brand that will work anyway
• Very very few drives are truly "non-compatible" with one technology type
• Some burners produce more compatible discs in both tech types
• Compatibility issues are mostly limited to older readers

It think that the study is fairly comprehensive.

Of course! They say what you wanna hear.

You show me a "more" comprehensive survey then that is as rigorously performed...

As they saying what I "want" to hear, I couldn't care less. I don't own or use either technology types (DVD burners are too darn expensive in Oz). One would think from reading your post is perhaps it is what you don't want to hear instead.

Furthermore, singling out a single post and saying "why didn't you see that" is really rather silly. There are on average over 850 posts per day:

He wouldn`t have to check 4x850 posts it was right on front page.

Look another warrior just crossposted. How about tomorrow?
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169372
When a newbie asks something that is obvious for you five old members jump on him : Read the damn guides. Do a forum search. (And they are right)

With everything single post you make we expect you to follow the "AUP". What's your point anyway? A random "look you're stupid too" remark? If I told you that you were being inflammatory for posting/linking to somthing that was already posted within a thread 4 days ago wouldn't YOU think I was being silly (if not worse)?

It was a joke, an obvious joke. BJ_M was being sarcastic.

Instead of keeping the peace. Should be moderating and checking already banned people coming back and shout DIE, DIE.....

Okay, here's the crux of it. We moderators should be nothing more than robots. [sarcasm]God forbid we make a joke. There is no worse thing for a public forum than when a moderator makes a joke![/sarcasm]

[rhetorical question]Why are there so many people on this board who can't see a joke even when it is so obvious that it pokes them in the face?[/rhetrorical question]

You are refering to your discussions with Kennyshin. I think he has much more to say about this plus-minus thing than you do.
I guess I`m just a boneheade dolt

Actually, I'm referring to someone on this thread who missed an obvious joke and is still taking it so seriously as to believe it to be some sort of public forum crime.

some people continue to be annoyed with the dodgey PR that sometimes accompanies the + format, and I think they are allowed to be annoyed

Check my posts I talk about my firsthand experiences.

I don't quite see how your "firsthand experience" has much to do with "some people being annoyed with the dodgey PR... etc."

MY firsthand experience is that I have never had issues with (e.g.) ASPI issues and VCDEasy. Does that mean that I say it doesn't exist?

Me and MY HP DVD+R just have fun burning and playing in very DVD player we have tried them on, including SONY, PIONEER, Panasonics even play on my panasonic DVD recorders, tired maybe 50 different brands of players 100% play back so far, no need to to switch here and don't have all the crying like the A04 and A05 guys do sometimes, plus I use any blank I want and record all the way to 4.4gigs with any problems.

Wait!
I`ve heard this somewhere.
Oh, yeah. It`s me.
I`ve been telling people the same thing about myself and my beloved Memorex burner.

How come these test guys always get different results than we do?
I guess we are just the lucky ones....

Really. How come we could maintain 100% compatibility?

Because you are lucky.

I've been lucky too... Let's see:

• I've never had ASPI issues with Windows -- I guess that it just musn't ever happen!
• I've never had playback problems with my VCDs on DVD players -- it must mean that the media I use must be 100% compatible!
• I've never had a Maxtor HDD crash on me -- they must be the best quality HDDs!
• Do I need to go on?

Do not assume that your own personal experiences are somehow the natural "truth". More often than not, they aren't.

As for your whole thing about "attitude", what's wrong with attitude anyway? Are people not allowed to have opinions other than what are "compatible" with yours? For instance, you have an attitude too. Very few people would have found any particular offense at the fact that the mention a particular handgun in someone's sig would require moderator attention, for example.

Regards.

[tompika]

I've unlocked this post... I'm going to allow tompika to have his rant as I asked him to do so

But you closed it back right away.

Allow me to answer your answers

But: your personal test with two types of media are more conclusive right?
What is the most likely answer?

Let me count: TWO of mine + another TWELVE reported by "dvdrhelp" members(linked) + in the meantime I found that player on ricoh website as compatible.

Thats min. FIFTEEN.
So the one I tested can`t be a magic one (that was very kind of you)
You left me two more answer. (incopetent tester, bad batch of media)
Pick any.

Good point and quite valid. However, one questions why there is a need for an option (that is not the default) for improving "media compatibility" at all. If you prefer to consider the tests as neophytes, I think that is fair. But a lot or your average users out there are neophytes as well so in a sense, the test is not entire "invalid". .

The fact: They did flash the drives.
When Mrs Smith buys a writer that comes with a firmware that`s what we can call DEFAULT.
The time goes she gets to know why and more important HOW she should update it, she is going to bump into the bitsetting.
When Mrs Smith uses Nero there are compatibility options : Finalizing?,UDF?, ISO?, Joliet?,...oops here is BOOKYPE. Just a button. WHY NOT PRESS IT? Easier then flashin isn`t it?
There are bitsetter utilities next to firmware updates on manufacturers websites, would you call any of them DEFAULT?

As to why they couldn't get the Ricoh writer, who knows! I presume CDInfo gets their drives from the manufacturer for testing purposes. I think it is a bit of a consipiracy theory to try to suggest reasons other than what was stated reason. .

I think I was clear. They WANT(?) a Ricoh. Ricoh doesn`t support them. They get one for reading! How? Could be used for writing too, or get another one. No BUDGET? No full scale test. A couple of teens could do a similar test then.

We moderators should be nothing more than robots. God forbid we make a joke. There is no worse thing for a public forum than when a moderator makes a joke!.

No, don`t be a robot. But it was not the first (and only). Wanna joke continuously? Go offtopic.

Even if the Ricoh writer was magic and produced 100% compatibility (unlikely), it wouldn't have changed the statistics much.

When thxkid says 50 player 100% playback, same here and both of us has OEM RICOH drive, and I`ve been PMing another guy same results there........That makes me think.
I think I`ll just go get a lottery.

I don't think that its a full raging flamewar... yet (and don't make it one!)

I`ll try not to

Sincerely, tompika

[vitualis]

I've unlocked this post... I'm going to allow tompika to have his rant as I asked him to do so

But you closed it back right away.

??? You were able to reply in this thread weren't you ???

But: your personal test with two types of media are more conclusive right?
What is the most likely answer?

Let me count: TWO of mine + another TWELVE reported by "dvdrhelp" members(linked) + in the meantime I found that player on ricoh website as compatible.

Thats min. FIFTEEN.
So the one I tested can`t be a magic one (that was very kind of you)
You left me two more answer. (incopetent tester, bad batch of media)
Pick any.

But the obvious answer is the one you are ignoring aren't you? That player isn't compatible with every media brand and they just happened to choose the "wrong" (insofar as not compatible with that player) brands.

There are bitsetter utilities next to firmware updates on manufacturers websites, would you call any of them DEFAULT?

No I wouldn't. Both firmware updates and bitsetter utilities are not default. The default settings is what you get "out of the box" and what the burning proggies have on "when you load it". It think that it is quite fair for testers of drives to use the latest (non-beta) firmware just the same as testers (for video cards) to use the latest (non-beta) drivers -- to show the hardware in the best light (but on default -- the assumption is that by the time people read the review and may actually buy the drive, those drives will be shipped with a newer version of firmware than the actual one "shipped" in the testing drive).

I still further maintain, however, it is still not quite logical for there to be an optional setting that makes the discs "more compatible" (without negative consequences). If that is the case, it shouldn't be optional at all.

As to why they couldn't get the Ricoh writer, who knows! I presume CDInfo gets their drives from the manufacturer for testing purposes. I think it is a bit of a consipiracy theory to try to suggest reasons other than what was stated reason. .

I think I was clear. They WANT(?) a Ricoh. Ricoh doesn`t support them. They get one for reading! How? Could be used for writing too, or get another one. No BUDGET? No full scale test. A couple of teens could do a similar test then.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. BUYING a writer specifically for a test is really rather expensive -- especially since the test would almost absolutely demand that a new writer is used (or else someone else would complain that they were using an old broken writer for testing). The reader, however, would not necessarily have to be new as they were testing a whole range of new and old readers.

We moderators should be nothing more than robots. God forbid we make a joke. There is no worse thing for a public forum than when a moderator makes a joke!.

No, don`t be a robot. But it was not the first (and only). Wanna joke continuously? Go offtopic.

Okay, so no joking in any threads but off topic? How generous of you! Need I remind you that you don't have any real right to "demand" any particular forum policy here? If you want to make a suggestion I suggest you post a thread in the "Feedback" forum on why moderators shouldn't "joke" in the forum (except off topic) and see how many other members agree with you...

Even if the Ricoh writer was magic and produced 100% compatibility (unlikely), it wouldn't have changed the statistics much.

When thxkid says 50 player 100% playback, same here and both of us has OEM RICOH drive, and I`ve been PMing another guy same results there........That makes me think.
I think I`ll just go get a lottery.

My Verbatim CD-R VCDs, have worked in every DVD player I've tested it on (well more than 100 players). Ergo... Verbatim CD-Rs are 100% compatible on DVD players. Same logic, but wrong. If you want proof that certain media don't play on certain drives, look no further than this forum (there are + people with problems just like there are - people) and obviously on that review. Ah but of course, you don't believe in any of that...

I don't think that its a full raging flamewar... yet (and don't make it one!)

I`ll try not to[/quote]

Thanks!

Keep it cool people!

Regards.

[dicktheprick]

I'm not going to rant and rave like other folks. In the end it will be the burner that can burn the fastest. Right now, +R is in the lead @ 8x with the latest plextor. Furthmore, there was a thread here (forgot which one) that showed as speeds increase it would be more difficult for the -r disks/burners to keep up with the +r (something to do with the frequency while burning), thats why the plextor burns +R @ 8x and -R @ 4x. We all dont want to waste anymore time then we have to, compatibility isnt an issue, speed is. If a disk doesnt work, you can burn a new one in 5 minutes.

[tompika]

AMEN

[psx_pirate]

who cares ........ i say if you are happy with +r use +r and if you prefer -r use -r ....... it all comes down to personal preference, there will always be standalones that support 1 format and not the other so no matter whether you use +r or -r sooner or later someone will have a player that wont play it

[BJ_M]

i accually don't care either -- i am glad they are both around as nothing worse than having only one choice ..

here are some quotes though from Panasonic :

DVD-R media is recognized as being compatible with most existing DVD video players and DVD-ROM drives. Ability to play back DVD-R discs is dependent on the condition of the recording and the disc itself.

During the first three months of 2003, DVD-RAM/-R-format recorders captured 70.2 percent of the U.S. DVD consumer recorder market, according to The NPD Group

[poopyhead]

In the end it will be the burner that can burn the fastest.

hrm...faster burning can cause more errors and increased incompatibility. not all DVD players (esepcially the old ones) can read media burned at the fastest rate. also, when you burn DVDs at 8X, you can easily get buffer underruns...even if you have underrun protection, that technology will still add something to the DVD that wasn't in the original.

If a disk doesnt work, you can burn a new one in 5 minutes.

you gotz lots of money? well, most ppl here aren't .com millionaires...or didn't sell of their shares in time especially since DVD+Rs are more expensive. DVD-Rs can go as cheap as $0.70. i haven't seen a DVD+R go under $1. so, you're suggesting that if a DVD+R doesn't work..."oh well"...i've just wasted $1+, but i'll go ahead and try again...and try again...after about $8 more in DVD+Rs wasted, you'll burn a good one???

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btw, i'm a DVD-R/W user.... however, i couldn't care less about the format wars. this can actually be a good thing as competing formats create competition that spurs lower prices and better innovations. i've heard ppl mention 2.4X DVD+R/W drives were selling for around $60 clearance...no rebates or coupons...great for everyone!!!

these debates are pointless as most new players support both formats...so who cares...i personally went with DVD-R because the media is cheaper....even though the drives seem to be more expensive (recently, at least).

even if you don't have a dvd player that supports one particular format....who cares... Apex players (some as low as $35) seem to play pieces of paper..no kidding get yourself one. higher quality brands that can also play everything (i.e. personally, i really like pioneer) are also coming down in prices. i believe there was a sale for a 5-disc pioneer DVD changer for $89. this is basically the same player as dv333 (dv343), but in a disc changer format....still really cheap for a really GOOD QUALITY PLAYER...

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in conclusion..plz get this out of your system as there seems to be competing formats for the blue laser/ray technology as well