CVD Vs SVCD...

[j1d10t]

This may not be the correct place for this post, but I'll try it anyway. Why is it that some CVD's (352x480) can look better on an HDTV than the same file in SVCD (480x480)? I've got some video's that I'm playing around with, and I've found that for the same video, applying the same filters, same settings (except resolution, and avegarge bit rate - I've set the SVCD bit rate higher than the CVD), and the CVD looks better than the SVCD. Why is that? I figured that the SVCD would look better on an HDTV because of the (slightly) higher resolution, but the CVD looks much better. With the SVCD I can almost see every pixel (not microblocks, just blocky pixels), whereas with the CVD it's smooth, and it looks just like cable TV. This isn't a major question, I was just wondering if one (or more) of the knowledgeable experts here could help me try to understand this
Thanks

[Heavensent]

generaly speaking, if you did it the way you say you did - cvd should not look better.
the idea behind cvd is that you use a lower resolution than svcd
BUT the bitrate makes it look better because the resolution is lower.

so the bitrate in CVD is not trying to expand on a higher resolution.
(thats the best i can explain it..)
example :
try to make a 720x576 with 2000 as bitrate
you will get low qulity picture.

try to make a 356X576 with 2000 as bitrate
and you will get much better qulity.

if you gave your SVCD higher bitrate than your CVD (why by the way?)
than your svcd should look better, depends on how much bitrate you put into it.

i think your cvd looks better because the picture is a bit blurry

[j1d10t]

I know the theory behind CVD/SVCD (lower resolution with the same bit rate) and that's what I didn't understand - why the SVCD looked worse than the CVD, even when I gave the SVCD a higher bit rate. I would have figured the same thing - the higher resolution of the SVCD would look better than the lower resolution of the CVD. the CVD even looks better than the XSVCD I tried making with 544x480 resolution. So far the only resolution(s) I've found that look as good/better on my TV is 704/720x480. I was just playing around with this video I have, and I thought I'd see which looked better, SVCD or CVD. I used the same .avi (in 640x480 resolution), I had TMPGEnc resize the video to both 480x480 and 352x480, had the noise reduction filter set at the same setting, had the GOP set the same, the motion search setting the same, everything but the bit rate. I gave the CVD a bit rate of 2400 (average, using 2-pass encoding), and the SVCD bit rate at 2520 (average, using 2-pass encoding). The CVD didn't really look any blurrier than the SVCD, it just looked smoother. With the SVCD the picture looks blocky, but not like microblocks, because they are there all the time, not just in high action scenes. I even tried the soften block noise feature in TMPGEnc on the SVCD, and it didn't help. Whereas with the CVD the picture just looks smooth - not blurry (at least if it is, it's not noticeable to the eye), it's just smooth. Not too smooth though, like it doesn't have sharp edges, just not all blocky like the SVCD. Any more thoughts? Because I'm stumped...

[Heavensent]

how about trying a different encoder?
try the same thing with cce maybe?

did you try it on a nuber of files or just one file?
you might get a different resolt on a different file,
has to do with the picture itself.

[j1d10t]

I haven't tried CCE - in fact I've never used CCE. I've tried this on 2 files, but I'm going to try this on another file. Both files are in the 4:3 aspect ratio, but the video is a letterboxed 16x9. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. And when I'm watching them, I'm using the zoom feature on my TV (to make the 4:3 letterboxed 16x9 look like it's just 16x9), because my TV is 16x9, and I don't want the black bars to show on my screen. Could it be something my TV is doing to the video? It's a Sony, and when I bought it the sales guy said that it had a special converter/processor in it to make standard broadcasts look more like HD, not just the standard line-doubler like most HDTV's. Could that have anything to do with it?

[Heavensent]

i realy dont know.

but if you think the picture looks better to you, thats grate
as long as you are happy.

[j1d10t]

Yeah. And I'm not complaining I was just wondering if there is a reason for this, or if this is just a fluke thing...

[thefox149]

I make CVd all the time and on a normal 68 cm tv CVD looks much better than SVCD (pal res). I love the fact that CVD is easily converted to DVD cause it is a legal res......CVD the rippers choice

[SatStorm]

This happens because of the resizing method....

Overall, TMPGenc does better job with CVD than SVCD if the source is not 720 x 576/480 and it is interlace.

Try to resize your file @ 480 X 576/480 using virtualdub and then feed TMPGenc to encode. This way SVCD maybe gonna look better.

Personally, I do only CVDs, but the correct resize method helps a lot with SVCDs. TMPGenc resize only linear, while for SVCD the bicubic method is neccessary for good results.

[kees1952]

I too go for CVD, best choise for me. One more advice: if you capture your own material for CVD, capture in 352 x 480/576 to avoid any resizing at all. This gives me the best results.

Regards, Kees Janssen.

[fmctm1sw]

I too go for CVD, best choise for me. One more advice: if you capture your own material for CVD, capture in 352 x 480/576 to avoid any resizing at all. This gives me the best results.

Regards, Kees Janssen.

Looks like one more vote for capturing at your final desired resolution....