Can I copy and resell these videos?

[gll99]

I would have liked to put this topic someplace else but didn't think it fit anywhere

I found out recently that there's a whole community out there interested in collecting, capturing and trading classic video cartoons.

I was surprised to find out that many cartoons (some even include Bugs Bunny, Daffy, Popeye and other well known characters) are in the public domain. This basically means that they can be freely distributed without paying royalty fees and without permission.
Some companies are repackaging these and reselling DVD's of classic cartoons.There are web sites advertising these and other videos which can be obtained for a fee of course.
There is even a digital specialty channel in my area which broadcasts many hours of these cartoons every week. I recognize the titles and content from lists I have seen.

My question is this:

Since these are in the public domain, if I purchase a DVD can I freely recopy the videos from the DVD and resell them? The producer of the video as added no original content on them. Can I capture them from the tv broadcaster and do the same?

Do you feel that I would have to obtain my content from some other source like libraries and such??

What do you think?

This topic is open for discussion. Please, your input is appreciated.

This should be a good test of whether topics are lost in the OT.

[vitualis]

Remember only the original content is in the public domain.

If the DVD makers add any additional material of their own into the video (e.g., a title, etc.), that part is protected by THEIR copyright.

Otherwise, I would assume that the answer is yes.

Regards.

[BJ_M]

the copyright laws were recently extended to 50 years or something .. called the disney law .. i'm sure most of those you listed fall into this new extended copyright law ...

[gll99]

2 mods and no others so far ....interesting!

vitualis:

Remember only the original content is in the public domain

No problem I mentionned that. In fact on my vhs tapes it's easy because the cartoons just run sequentially. The DVD's are different since the menus are probably copyrighted. I would extract the appropriate ifo/VOB structures and create new menus. I would probably mix and match cartoons from different sources to keep my product unique. Your point is well taken though. Thank you.

BJ_M:

the copyright laws were recently extended to 50 years or something .. called the disney law .. i'm sure most of those you listed fall into this new extended copyright law ...

Another very good point.

No these are all beyond existing copyright laws. There are sources to verify this and of course I would take precautions before distributing any material that could set me against a major corporation.

Thanks for your comment.

Where are the legal beagles I see commenting so frequently on other posts? What do you think?

I could throw in a couple of glitches here. Food for thought.

What if the company who sold me the tape or DVD has improved the quality of the video but I don't know that? Do they have a claim on this enhancement (digitally remastered)? What if the original release was bw and now it's colorized? Would that matter?

Anything else to consider?

[vitualis]

What if the company who sold me the tape or DVD has improved the quality of the video but I don't know that? Do they have a claim on this enhancement (digitally remastered)? What if the original release was bw and now it's colorized? Would that matter?

I don't know...

I'm not too certain on the digital enhancement (though I would leen towards yes) and if it has been colourised, definitely yes.

Remember, the ORIGINAL content is in the public domain. If I enhance the video, change the audio, etc., I am using the material in the public domain to create a "new" product that I have some claim to copyright.

There are obvious grey areas here...

For example, there are many books which have fallen into the public domain. I could use the TEXT in those books in any way I wish, but if I simply photocopy the pages, I would be infringing on the publishers copyright (insofar as the formatting etc.)

I would like to know what are legal enthusiasts/experts have to say on this issue as well...

Regards.

[Will Hay]

Virtualis,
My expertise is only construction law and undoubtedly you have as much knowledge in this subject as I do, but in my opinion there's no grey area whatsoever
If the maker's of the dvd have done absolutely anything to the original content then it has to be copyrighted.
They expended time and effort in producing what they feel is a superior quality episode to the original, and will want to protect that investment.
Your 'book' theory is excellent, whilst the text may well be in the public domain the finished article, ie. the book is not.
Of course I could be way off, I think we need Adam's input here
Will

[mrtristan]

If I were you, I wouldn't. Chances are slim that Disney or another corporate conglomerate would crack down on you, but they have much more money than you can spend on a lawyer to defend yourself.

The legality of what you want to do is questionable and involves money, which makes for a potential compromising situation. I would play it safe and pass on a seemingly good opportunity.

If you were to end up in a court battle, it would come down to whose lawyer can spin the "facts" better. I'm pretty sure Disney's megabucks and hour lawyers would come out on top.

[BJ_M]

if you are serrious and the possaibility exsists to make some money from it -- you should contact a copyright lawyer ...


you may have a good case ... and no problems .. then again im not a copyright lawyer and those laws keep shifting around (even in different countries)


of course posting your ideas here has caused several 1000 people to view it and maybe give them an idea also (hmmmm, maybe i could .....)..

[mysticgohan17]

if a movie were to be broadcasted on NETWORK (nbc, cbs, abc or fox) television, one could justify the purchasing of the Merry Melodies collection on eBay. because of its limited availability it has only shown on one network for the past eight or more years (Cartoon Network). Almost every television show out today is availible for free post-original airing and should be free of cost because that is the way it was intended to be. NBC can't tell you to pay $4.95 to watch Friends (like you'd watch it for free in the first place ) on Must See TV and ask you to pay again to watch ER an hour later. It is juvenile and possibly illegal for any network at any point in time to ask the consumer to pay for free broadcast TV. On the other hand, there is cable television, PPV and Pay TV (HBO, Skin-imax) Which is explained in the disclaimer aired before PPV movies and sporting events, blah blah blah, dont record and rebroadcast for public exhibition etc, etc, etc. It is illegal I have no problem with it. There are ways to get around it. It's sunday you're watching a PPv movie, oops i set the VCR to record on the wrong channel but i paid $4.95 for the movie, I guess I'll get on IRC and download a HQ SVCD copy of the exact same movie. Every rule has a loophole.

[gll99]

BJ_M

if you are serrious and the possaibility exists to make some money from it -- you should contact a copyright lawyer ...

Your right on with that!

of course posting your ideas here has caused several 1000 people to view it and maybe give them an idea also (hmmmm, maybe i could .....)..

I don't mind sharing, that's why I posted. I have my own opinions on matters but like to think that this is what forums are about (the sharing of ideas). Hope someone else does it and makes a mint, it will still take a lot of work. Who knows I'm so lazy I may never get this off the ground.

I thought of this when I found a site offering to sell public domain movies, cartoons, news video clips. They did all the work of acquiring them from public libraries and other sources which I have not tracked down yet.

The same concept is probably true for music but right now video is the question of the day.

My thanks to those who have commented so far.

[vitualis]

I believe that there is a grey area with regards to video...

For a book, you have the raw text that you can access. It is easily reproducable perfectly on many media.

But for VIDEO, the analogy is sort of different. The video is ultimately the sequence of images and they must exist on some sort of medium. I think that it would be against the SPIRIT of copyright (insofar that intellectual property past a certain number of years becomes PUBLIC DOMAIN) that everytime the video is transferred to a new type of medium that it that that person gains new copyright rights in its totality.

Regards.

[gll99]

Here is what one site offers:

Public Domain
This site (I took the name away not to advertise) offers the largest selection of public domain feature films in the world. Quite a promise, but our associates devoted lifetimes and fortunes to finding EVERY FILM they can that is in the public domain.
Beta-SP Masters
Top quality Beta-SP Masters are used by cable TV stations around the world, by DVD and VHS manufacturers and stock footage companies. This section is for those specialized users who demand top quality and also the assurance that the films are free of copyright restrictions. Such films are said to be in the public domain because they were never properly copyrighted in the first place or were not renewed as required by law.

You are most welcome to browse to see which classic and obscure films from the last hundred years are in the public domain. Many are available for sale at $14.95 or $19.95 on VHS if interested

MULTIPLE USES
These films may be broadcast on cable TV, sold on VHS or DVD, used for stock footage in various projects and shown to audiences where admission is charged. They may even be dubbed into foreign languages!

Just a few of their titles:

Action/Adventure!
Title................. Date... Length..... Starring

ABDULLA THE GREAT (1954) 79 Color. Gregory Ratoff Arabian Nights story.
ADVENTURE ISLAND (1947) 66 Color. Rory Calhous, Rhonda Fleming.
BENEATH THE 12 MILE REEF (1953) 101 Color. Robert Wagner sponge dives.
BIG CAT (1949) 77 Color. Preston Foster hunts vicious cougar.
BIG TREES (1952) 89 Color. Kirk Douglas logging film.
CAPTAIN KIDD (1945) 89 Randolph Scott, Charles Laughton.
CAPTAIN SCARLETT (1953) 78 Color. Richard Greene.
DANIEL BOONE (1956) 76 Color. Bruce Bennett frontier action.
DRUMS IN DEEP SOUTH (1951) 86 Color. Guy Madison Civil War story.
GUNG HO! (1943) 87 Randolph Scott World War 2 battle film.
HERCULES UNCHAINED (1960) 97 Color. Steve Reeves.
LONG JOHN SILVER (1954) 109 Color. Sequel to "Treasure Island."
MOHAWK (1956) 79 Color. Scott Brady. Iroquois uprising.
MUTINY (1952) 77 Color. Angela Lansbury. War of 1812.
MOST DANGEROUS GAME (1932) 70 Mad hunter stalks Fay Wray.
OUTPOST IN MOROCCO (1949) 91 George Raft in French Foreign Legion.
SALOME, WHERE SHE DANCED (1945) 90 Color Yvonne De Carlo.
SON OF MONTE CRISTO (1940) 103 Louis Hayward, Joan Bennett
SUNDOWN (1941) 90 Gene Tierney, George Sanders.
SWAMP DIAMONDS (1955) 73 Color. Marie Windsor & escaped convicts.
WHITE ORCHID (1955) 77 Color. Peggy Castle jungle adventure.
TARZAN'S REVENGE (1938) 70 Glenn Morris as the ape man.
TARZAN THE FEARLESS (1933) 85 Buster Crabbe.


Westerns!

ABILENE TOWN (1946) 89 Randolph Scott
AMERICAN EMPIRE (1942) 82 Richard Dix
ANGEL AND THE BADMAN (1947) 99 John Wayne.
FIGHTING CARAVANS (1931) 80 Gary Cooper leads wagon train.
THE KANSAN (1943) 79 Richard Dix, Jane Wyatt.
KANSAS PACIFIC (1953) 73 Color. Sterling Hayden builds railroad.
THE OUTLAW (1943) 115 Jane Russell. Howard Hughes film.
PAINTED DESERT (1931) 75 William Boyd, Clark Gable.
RAGE AT DAWN (1955) 87 Color. Randolph Scott infiltrates outlaw gang.
SANTA FE TRAIL (1940) 110 Errol Flynn
SITTING BULL (1954) Color, 105 min. Dale Robertson.
TERROR OF TINY TOWN (1938) 63 All-midget B-Western.
VENGEANCE VALLEY (1951) 83 Color. Burt Lancaster


B-Westerns starring
John Wayne
Roy Rogers
Gene Autry
Hopalong Cassidy
Tim McCoy
Tom Tyler
Buster Crabbe
Texas Rangers
Bob Steele
Tex Ritter
Johnny Mack Brown
Ken Maynard
Texas Rangers
Rough Riders
Three Mesquiteers

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In most cases, they have done format conversion... improvement etc.. yet they say that we can freely redistribute, make dvd's, tapes etc.. and sell them. Remember this is just one site and only a sample of what is available. Cartoons are not on this list but they have those also.

I would like to find the original sources for free but at those prices it may be easier to just get the stuff I want from them. I would probably get my money back after selling 2 or 3 copies of each movie. Now I have seen some of these movies on DVD at my local Wallmart for $4.88 to $6.88 Canadian. If I can legally copy those instead then it would be even cheaper. I would need to design new graphics and get some covers etc.. printed but can always start small, advertise locally etc...

[EddyH]

Is it ethical to sell them for profit, though? :/

Or do it more in the spirit of the fansub / abandontoon / abandonware communities, charge the cost of production and possibly a beer and a postcard for really big jobs..

[gmatov]

EddyH,
I don't get your question of the ethics of gll99's idea. The page he quoted said they may be sold on VHS or DVD, etc.. And someone is already doing this, as they are for sale at various outlets.
I was at a supermarket video rental outlet a few days ago, and they had a bin of old movies on DVD, sounding much like gll99's post. I picked through a few, all were 1940, 41, 42, like that.

gll99,
There was a .com sticker on the cases. I made note of it, since I had seen your previous posts on the subject and promptly forgot what the heck it was. Have to go back to return the flicks soon. Will try to write it down this time. I'll let you know what it was
As far as selling them, if it's legal to do so, why the heck not. Someone else is making a buck.
Some of these things are stinkers, too. I bought one a few months ago, Strike Force, with Richard Gere, and it appears to me that it was a TV series type thing. Transitions all wrong for a movie, poor everything. I don't know Richard Gere's stuff, maybe it is a movie. Copyrighted 1997, Front Row Entertainment, www.frontrowe.com, if you're interested.
Are the movies downloadable from the site you show above? Purchase option seems to be for a hard copy.

George

Sorry, I just tried the url. It's no good, and if you drop the "e", you get a ticketmaster clone.

[BJ_M]

strike force -- made for TV , 1975 brutally bad ..

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0073758

Richard gere's first role except for a bit part in kojak

[gmatov]

BJ_M
Amen to that. The picture quality was pretty bad, too.

George

[gmatov]

gll99,

Here's the url I couldn't remember. www.oldies.com . Understandable how I could forget it, no? Toughy.