deinterlacing?

[carrier_20]

Finally, I have made some progress.

After about six months I believe I am CLOSE to being content with my captures. I have weened information from this board and a few others and finally I am able to capture in Windows 2000 with my All-In-Wonder Radeon at any resolution using Virtualdub, and also have no sound issues with my via chip set and Sound Blaster live.

Now, my Sony DVD player does well with xVCD. I haven't been extremely pleased with xVCD quality even at around 2100 bitrate at 352 x 240. Very possible I am not doing everything correctly. What I have noticed is the quality is incredible when I capture at 640 x 480 and burn a xvcd with it. Now for the issues...

Why is there, what looks like extra lines, in the video, when I capture at 704 x 480? Is this interlacing? And if so, why when I try using the deinterlacing filter does it not end up correcting it. Is it a limitation of the AIW-R? I know you can capture w/ATI's MMC and no lines, but the quality is not as good. At least not how I am doing it, no offense to people who use MMC. If I could get the same quality I have no problem using it, in fact would love to so I wouldn't have to reincode with TMPEG. I have tried the hack and it's better, but still not as good as I see with Virtualdub.

Last but not least I can capture with Virtualdub at 640 x 480 and there are no extra video lines, great quality, but the people are just a little squished, and I have about a inch on the right side of the screen that is black, like widescreen but vertical. It is only on the right. I assume this is because I need to be using 704 x 480, but again I have extra line issues with that. I can handle the black bar if the picture was the correct aspect ratio.

I know I have kind of rambled on, but I don't post much and guess I have been saving up and just don't know where to turn anymore. Thanks for ANY help.

Carrier

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: carrier_20 on 2001-09-12 14:12:03 ]</font>

[kinneera]

Capturing at 480 generally will maintain the interlacing found on the tape (for NTSC). That presumably is the source of the horizontal lines. If you are unsastified with VirtualDub's deinterlace filter, try TMPGEnc's.

640x480 is a VGA (1:1) resolution. For playback on a TV it is preferable to capture at 704x480 or 720x480. It sounds like your TV does not stretch VGA resolutions correctly.

[carrier_20]

But when I try to capture in those resolutions I have the problem with distorted video, almost loks like extra video lines. The 640 x 480 is the highest I can go (w/ virtualdub) before I get bad video.

[kinneera]

I'm not sure what to say without being able to see the distortion you describe. Keep in mind that 704x480 or 720x480 will look slightly distorted on your computer screen, because those resolutions are NOT VGA, and your monitor is a VGA display device, but it will look just fine on a TV.

[carrier_20]

Maybe I am setting TMPEG up wrong then. Do you know what I should be using in there. Because the video is jearky also. I have lowered the bitrate to 2100, recored in mpeg2 and used the svcd profile that comes with TMPEG. I have also tried mpeg1 and a vcd profile at around 2100. Almost the same thing.

[kinneera]

Does it have this problem when played on your computer, or just with your DVD player?

[carrier_20]

Just on the DVD player. On the computer it is not jerky.

[kinneera]

Well then clearly the problem is not with your encoding (directly, anyway), but with your DVD player. Most likely, the bitrate is more than your DVD player can handle.

Basically, you have two options: get a new DVD player with better xVCD support, or encode your VCDs at a lower bitrate. A good baseline is to make sure it even plays standard VCDs correctly and then raise the bitrate from there.

[carrier_20]

First off I want to say thanks for your continued help.

Having said that, I spent about 6 hours last night and about 20 samples and burns trying to get something to work. This is what I found:

1) Captured at 704 x 480. It looked good to me. No artifats, capturing using Virtualdub and HUFFUV.

2) Converted using EVERYTHING (in TMPEGenc), no seriously, a lot of different things. Anyway what I am confused about is I was able to get high motion video with NO jerkiness, incredible quality (I would say near close to source, which is digital satellite), but it only fits the left side of the screen, it doesn't reach top and bottom or the right side. Perfect aspect ratio and such, again great quality. I tried so many settings, but there are just so many of them. You have different aspect ratios on the first page, and also on the second tab of TMPEGenc. Not to mention full screen, keep aspect and all of those settings. One more thing I tried 704 x 480 on the resolution under the first tab in TMPEGenc, but it seemed to be too big for the screen. I tried selecting 480 x 480 and this is when I got the great results except not fitting the screen of course.

Another novel for you to read, but I really would like to get this going, before I go insane.

Carrier

[kinneera]

Those are some very odd symptoms, 704x480 should have looked just fine on your TV. I have been assuming that you have a regular (as in, not widescreen) TV. Please let me know if this is not true.

Oddly enough, your DVD player seems to be interpreting resolutions very literally. That would explain why the 480x480 resolution leaves space to the right.

When you say 704x480 looks too big, what exactly do you mean? Parts of the video are cut off? What parts?

In TMPGEnc, ideally your aspect ratio settings should be something like the following. Under the advanced tab, it should be set to the aspect ratio of your source video (for 704x480, this will be NTSC 525 line with the paranthetical 704x480 res.), and full screen preserve aspect ratio. Under the main tab, it should be set to 4:3 525 line.

I'm struggling to come up with suggestions, but it still sounds to me like the majority of your pain is being caused by your DVD player, unfortunately.

[SatStorm]

I read a lot about this....
Seems like VCRs output is about 352X240 (NTSC) or 352X288 (Pal)Anything beyond that resolution is fake. If you capture from a VHS (VCR) source with a resolution of 704X576 for example (full Pal), you get 352X288 * 2. A fake resolution. Probably, your capture device adds lines (doubles them that is...) and the resalt is horroble!
Maybe, because of filters we use on PC, the avi file looks great sometimes. But, when you encode this to SVCD you get macroblocks, statering picture when there is a white backround (on some standalone players) and big files.
I tested a lot, and I see that filters etc, ain't doing good job. Also they take lot's of time in the encoding part...

So, I try to capture at 352X288 (I use PAL), as ALL the manufactury suggest for capturing from a VCR source. Non compress avi, no filters...
Then I encode it with 352X576 using TMPEG with a bitrate about 2350. TMPEG add vertical lines in the original avi. 352 horizont ones stay as it is.
Well, try it yourself...
It looks like the original VHS tape and has no blocks at all! If you use "soft block noise" about 35 (default), the picture also gets smoother...
My conclusion is: We need Vertical Lines. Let TMPEG add them to the encoding. It is much better than capture in higher resolutions!