850 megs on a 700 meg CRD?

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I need some help here. I'm a bit confused. I was able to burn an 850 meg SVCD on a 700 meg CDR.

Typically up to this point I have been able to burn a file up to maybe 810 megs on a 700 meg CDR. I always paid homage to Nero when it would kick out my CDR and complain about it not being large enough to burn anything greater. Well okay that was fine. I burned withinn those limits.

Well today I picked up some 99 minute CDR's from CompUsa. I thought I'd give them a try and after some playing around I was able to burn an 850 meg file on them. I thought great, 850 megs will work for some special circumstances on these 99 minute CDR's. I have not yet tried to go beyond the 850 megs but I'll continue to tweak and find the maximun for my setup.

I have a Yamaha 2100e which I thought could burn the 99 minute CDR's up to 6x based on some research I did. Well my first burn I attempted at 8x. I thought why not give it a try. It worked fine. And it played fine in my Apex 703. It was an SVCD using Nero 5.5.3.5.

Well okay I thought let's try it at 12x. Again no problems. Which suprised me. All my research told me that the Yamaha 2100e could handle the 99 minute CDR's up to 6x. I haven't tried 16x yet.

I was in a testing mood. So I popped in a Verbatim CDR rated at 16x 700 megs and attempted the same burn. 850 megs on this 700 megs CDR. Well to my suprised it worked - at 12x. The burn went flawlessly and played in my Apex 703 with no problems.

For background I did a minor mod when I installed the Yamaha 2100e. It had the reputation of being the loudest vibrating CDRW drive ever created. So when I installed it I noticed that it sounded like a jet plane when I incerted a CD. It almost made me return it. But I decided to install it in the top most 5 1/4 drive slot and I placed a healthy layer of bubble wrap between the top of the drive and the case. It turned the Yamaha into the quietest CDRW I have ever worked with. The was no vibration. I was concerned with a heat problem but after many many burns over the past 3 months it has not become an issue.

I guess my question here is has anybody been able to burn 850 megs on a CDR rated at 700 megs (I realize we all get just over 800 megs on these CDR's)?

I'm going to tweak my burns up and see just how far I can go. With both the 99 minute CDR's and the 80 minute CDR's

[vitualis]

Firstly, are you 100% sure that the full 850 MB was written? And was it really 850 MB in the first place (i.e., are you sure it isn't a Windows reporting error)?

A simple raw extraction of the disc image should be able to verify this...

If it is true, I have to say that I'm pretty impressed -- both with the media and the drive. Overburning by almost 5 minutes is a pretty significant thing... and something I would have not thought possible.

Regards.

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Michael - yes the full file was written. I had to sleep on this one because the results suprised me. I just did a cut and burn of a 2.6 gig file:

Cut 1 - 828,659 KB on a Memorex 700 MB 80 minute CDR
Cut 2 - 825,985 KB on a Verbatum 700 MB 80 minute CDR
Cut 3 - 957,296 KB on a CompUsa 850 meg 99 minute CDR

The resulting avseg.mpg files were the correct corresponding sizes. I burned in Nero using the MPEGAV option as an SVCD.

The burns were all at 12x on a Yamaha 2100e. The CDR's all played back fine on an Apex 703.

What suprised me was the following:

1. Being able to burn the appx. 830 megs to a 700 meg CDR. My previous limit was always just over 800 megs. I mentioned in an earlier post I had been able to do 850 meg burns. This still holds true. I'm not sure what my upper limit is at the moment but when I did something really high like 900 megs on a 700 meg CDR the burn failed. It stopped at 98% complete.

2. Being able to burn to both the Memorex and the Verbatum. The Memorex has a silver dye finish. The Verbatum has a deep blue finish.

3. Having my Apex 703 accept and play the CDR's. This could be just an Apex thing though.

4. What really suprised me was the Yamaha. Everything I had read about 99 minute CDR's put limits on the Yamaha of 6x burns and a top end limit of 89.59 minutes. Example number 3 above was burned at 12x and the time bar in Nero was appx 94 minutes.

I don't know what's going on here but I'm not complaining. I'm thinking that by eliminating the vibration problems with the Yamaha it is able to burn faster. Going beyond the 89:59 minute limit I don't understand though. I thought this limit was a firmware issue.

I'm going to continue to test and find the true limits on both the 700 meg and 850 meg CDR's. I also may try burning at 16x and see what happens. I'll post my results if anybody is interested.

[bobotns]

It's normal what you're talking about.

Depending on the 80-min-CD-R you're using you'll get 800 to 830 MB on it.

On 99-min-CD-Rs you get up to 1 GB (!) on it.

The 850 MB you're talking about are equivalent to 85 min video, so you can get 14 more minutes on the 99-min-CD-R

BUT: your yamaha will NOT get more than 90 minutes on a CD-R (890~900 MB), even if it's a 99-min-CDR.

And stop bugging yourself! you can get the maximum capacity of every CDR with the tool Nero CD Speed (Extras -> Overburning test)

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-08-25 07:57:33, bobotns wrote:
It's normal what you're talking about.

Depending on the 80-min-CD-R you're using you'll get 800 to 830 MB on it.

On 99-min-CD-Rs you get up to 1 GB (!) on it.

The 850 MB you're talking about are equivalent to 85 min video, so you can get 14 more minutes on the 99-min-CD-R

BUT: your yamaha will NOT get more than 90 minutes on a CD-R (890~900 MB), even if it's a 99-min-CDR.

And stop bugging yourself! you can get the maximum capacity of every CDR with the tool Nero CD Speed (Extras -> Overburning test)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you hit the nail right on the head as far as my confusion. If you'll notice in my above post I'm getting 850 megs on a 700 meg CDR. And example 3 above is 957 megs on an 850 meg CDR. And yes - burning with the Yamaha 2100e.

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Taking Michael's suggestion about possible Windows reporting errors I dropped down into DOS and here's what I found:

cut 1: 828,659KB (Windows) 848,545KB (DOS)
cut 2: 825,985KB (Windows) 845,808KB (DOS)
cut 3: 957,296KB (Windows) 980,270KB (DOS)

The files are actually being reported as larger in DOS.

I don't get it.

edit -

I also just dropped down into DOS and read the file size of the avse~.mpeg file off the 850 meg burn on the 700 meg CDR. It reads 869 megs.

I'm still confused. Help anybody?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: next on 2001-08-25 08:43:52 ]</font>

[Freddie100]

Those are normal figures for a 700MB. Different programs will report different figures. Its the way they calculate disc space.

[bobotns]

Don't make me laugh!
What windows shows is right: 828659 KB (=809MB!)
Make a small operation and you will find that:
828659 x 1024 = 848.546.816 Bytes (that's what DOS show you!)

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Well I obviously was selling myself short all this time then. I always limited my burns to up to about 810 megs as windows reported it. So what is the maximum "windows" file size for a 700 meg CDR? Is it around 850 megs as windows reports it?

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Bobotns - Thanks!

Okay, it's starting to make sense to me now. I found this great little site to help in the KB/MB conversion:

http://www.egret.net/kb__mb.htm

My only additional question is the 957,296KB burn on the 99 minute CDR with the Yamaha 2100e. It converts to 935 megs which is higher than what you suggest for the Yamaha in an earlier post. Also I'm happy I can do all this at 12x. Going to try 16x next.

Thanks for all the help!! I really was selling myself short on disk capacity previously. I wish I would have known!

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>

BUT: your yamaha will NOT get more than 90 minutes on a CD-R (890~900 MB), even if it's a 99-min-CDR.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I've burned files as large as 97 minutes with the Yamaha 2100E in Nero and I feel confident I can go to 99 minutes with the CompUsa 99 minute CDR's. I'm burning at 8x.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
And stop bugging yourself! you can get the maximum capacity of every CDR with the tool Nero CD Speed (Extras -> Overburning test)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

As hard as I look I can't find this feature. I'm using 5.5.3.5. The 99 minute CDR's are reported in CD Info as 702MB. But I'm getting close to 1 gig on the burns. Haven't tried anything higher yet.

[85Turbo]

hey there , im using an older version of nero and i cant find this option either (5.0.2.4) and im having trouble burning a 825 meg vcd on 80 min cdrs, it gets to 99 % then says error. im using an acer burner and generic mr data 80 min cdrs. ive worked out that im only short by 10 megs !!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 85Turbo on 2001-09-08 03:01:04 ]</font>

[85Turbo]

ok , ive downloaded the new version , and ive found the overburn test. now i have another question , in the overburn test it says that i can burn 87 mins on a kodak 80 min cdr , but when i try to burn 83 mins vcd , it fails.

any ideas ?

jason