Does cheap media really make a difference in the end result?

[kpoman]

I was getting ready to purchase Prince 1X DVD-R media for my Toshiba SD5002 and was wondering does the quality of the media really make a difference when playing your backup movies in your standalone? I have a Toshiba SDR3750 standalone. Thanks!

[wulf109]

Not in my expierence,1x Princo's work as well if not better than TDK.

[Faustus]

yes it can actually, if the media is very cheap sometimes you will get stuttering/pausing video after a ways into the movies. This is because the data tracks near the end of the disc are more dense and therefore have to read at a very steady rate in order to play correctly.

The good news is the cheap media have gotten alot better then where we at 9+ months ago. The bad news is there is still alot of cr@p out there.

Of course if you only burn short movies you'll not likely notice the problem for a while usually, in personal experience just after you purchase about a billion dollars worth of 'em

Princos specifically are known to work great for some and not so well for others, but then I have not tried them in a while as I found a disc that works great for all my uses. Personally I suggest buying some in small quantities to check out, find one movie that takes up as close as possible to the entire disc and use it as the media checking movie. You might even want to try it in a few friends different DVD players.

If you are using a Pioneer drive I'd check into the Ritek G03 disk which are also sometimes sold by websites as Primedisc first, thats what I'm using (Pioneeer DVR-A04), but I have no experience with your specific device therefore you'll want to check it out for yourself first.

One more thing, never ever ever buy a bunch of disk without checking them first, when I first got my burner I purchased a very expensive at the time 25 pack that I still have 22 of because of their uselessness.

Hope that helps.

[dcsos]

I have 100 of these 1X certified princo blanks and those that I've burned (21 or so) they work fine in my
JVC dvd player
However, If I burn a Maxell, Memorex or Pioneer blank (2x they are all)
the JVC reads it faster (5 secs to know its there)
while the princo's take 25 seconds to LOAD.(always)
This is the only problem i've seen with cheap media yet.
(others have made coasters with even cheaper brands)
Any one with problems recognizing cheap media quickly or is it just
MY JVC

[defense]

@ Flaystus, I have been asking a question for a while now, and have not gotten a direct answer, however, it seems like you have answered it to some extenet or another, in this post. I have been using Verbatim 2.4x DVD+R disks since I have gotten my burner, which has been for about a month or so. I noticed that when using Nero, I experienced SEVERAL problems, so to make a long story short, I dumped it for RecordNowMax, which has been Great! I had about five movies or so which have that "end of the movie" studder or pause you refer to and all of them did take up the majority of the disk. What I did was basically used RecordNowMax to burn the same exact movie, and whoala, NO MORE END OF THE MOVIE PROBLEMS! I thought I was through with that issue, but "thought" is the key word there. When I ripped Minority Report, I noticed that the chapter before the last did the exact same thing. It froze and studdered and skipped, etc..etc. I was like DAMN! Anyway, being that I have NEVER had this occur on ANY of the DVD-R disks that I burned, and I burned about 15 or so TDK DVD-R disks, I thought it was due to the DVD+R format. But then when I checked a couple of other movies that I backed up with RecordNowMax which almost take up the full length of the DVD+R, such as Harry Potter, Gladiator, etc...they played flawlessly from beginning to end! That is why I am having a hard time understanding what is happening. One thing that I can say for sure is that this problem occurred MUCH more with Nero. Like I said, every movie this happened with when burned with Nero, I just burned with RNM and the problem was gone. Now the thing is that when you and other people say "cheap" media, what do you mean? I have been using TDK and Verbatim DVD+R's due to the -R issue and when they were made. On Sony's website for the DRU500a, they encourage the use of either of those two brands, and they say using "cheap" media could be a problem and a risk. Well, they didn't consider Verbatim DVD+R's cheap media, and my pocket definitely doesn't either. That's why I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions about "inexpensive" media, and I decided to order the ACCU DVD-R's which burn at 2x with the SONY Dru500a. I should have them by Monday, January 13th. I am looking forward to these.

Anyway, my questions though are being that Verbatim are far from considered "cheap" media, why have I had this problem you are referring to with them? Also, why would it occur much more often with Nero then RecordNowMax. With Nero, almost EVERY movie that took up over 4GB'S or so would have the studder, freeze, skip problem towards the last ten minutes or so of the movie? While RNM has burned each of those SAME movies, on the SAME DVD+R 2.4x Verbatim Disks, and the problem just disappeared. But with "certain" movies, such as Minority Report, and Lord of the Rings, I have also noticed the same exact thing. Being that I have checked each and every one of the TDK and Verbatim DVD-R's that I used initially, and have NOT found a single disk with ANY freezing, pausing, etc....I have to personally attribute, at least some of this problem to the +R format. I haven't ripped another movie since I noticed Minority Report had this problem about a week ago or so. I've lost too much on blank DVD media, and when I get the ACCU's, the first two movies I am going to burn, which are sitting on my hard drive waiting are LOTR, and Minority Report. Anyway, ANY HELP you can give me on this would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

You are much more advanced and knowledgable then me on this for sure, so if you could just explain why this problem occurs with expensive media as well, and occurs much less of the time with RNM then with Nero, I would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! Thanks in advance!

[chaseru]

yes it can actually, if the media is very cheap sometimes you will get stuttering/pausing video after a ways into the movies. This is because the data tracks near the end of the disc are more dense and therefore have to read at a very steady rate in order to play correctly.

This is why I test play cheap DVD-Rs in the player I intend to use the disc in the most before I erase the image from my hard drive. I don't watch the entire contents; rather, I merely put the disc in before I go to bed and in the morning look to see if the disc froze or properly finished and returned to the menu screen.

The "Test" or "Verify" functions in buring programs may say the disc burned OK, but they still can stutter or pause when in a player.

[Faustus]

defense:

Not quite sure what to say here. I will however say that Verbatim is NOT cheap media. Also I have never had a single problem with any Verbatim branded disk.

I do have a few questions for you however.

1. What burner do you use? I'm assuming a multi format sony.

2. What process do you use with these movies?

and 3. Do you have the latest firmware?

[defense]

@ Flaystus, first, thank you very much for your reply. I thought it may stump you a little, because it sure has stumped me. To answer your questions, 1) I do have the Sony Dru500a. 2) I do have the latest firmware, 1.0f, 3) The process I use to create the movies are using RecordNow Max. I select the "DATA" option and do TrackAtOnce Closed option, as I do with all the movies I burn. As I said, I thought this problem was solved after I dumped Nero and started using RecordNow Max. All of the movies I noticed this on were movies which basically took up most of the DVD. 4.2 GB's or greater. When I used RecordNow Max to burn the same movies which would skip/pause towards the end, I had no problems. I thought everything was fine, then I ripped Minority Report, which took up most of the DVD+R after reencoding, as I went through the movie and got to the third to last chapter, it froze, skipped, paused! I was really shocked to say the least. One thing I know is that RecordNow Max burned about five movies flawlessly which Nero caused that last chapters issue with, but I still had the problem with RecordNow Max on these Verbatim DVD+R's. Then when I ripped Lord Of the Rings, I had the same exact problem. It is very frustrating, and I can't understand what is causing this. I thought it may have something to do with CCE or Maestro, but when I saw the problem occur on Ace Ventura Pet Detective which was a single layer movie, I quickly squashed that theory. If you could give me any expert advise on this I would appreciate it.

I do have a couple of other questions for you. 1)Is it possible that a couple of the DVD+R's in the 15 pack spindle are made more cheaply then others? I mean, those Verbatim's are expensive. 2)I know some people use that ADVDINFO to check their "cheap" media, but would it make any difference for me to use it on Verbatim? 3) I know you said you have never had a problem with Verbatim Disks, what burning software do you use? 4) Do you use Verbatim DVD+R's at 2.4x like the ones I am referring to here, or do you just use the DVD-R's. One thing I can say for sure up to this point is that NONE of my DVD-R's, neither TDK or VERBTATIM have this end of the disk problem. One other mystifying thing to note is that how LOTR & Minority Report did this with RecordNow Max but Harry Potter, Superman, & Gladiator, all reencoded movies which are about 4.35 GB'S on the very same DVD+R's work PERFECTLY from beginning to end. Any other info you can give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again

[Faustus]

FIrst off her is the answer to your questions:

1: Yes, every once in a while you can get a "dud" disk, this is more often true with cheaper media (such as my ritek disk which work great but hit my first bad on the other day)

2: All the info tool does is tells you who really manufactuered the disk so, no it will not help with this problem.

3: I use Nero, never had a problem with it in the least, except stupid mistakes that I have made and media problems early in.

4: no I do not use the Verbatims you are using. I have a Pioneer A04 and therefore cannot... I use the DVD-Rs.


Now a few questiosn for you....

Have you tried reburninging the movie? If so did the second attempt also have the problem?

Can you lower the burn speed and see if that helps? I can burn at 2x with the disk I am using but if I'm burning either a full disk or something important I always go back to 1x. (I have burned at 2x with Verbatims without any problems in the past but its worth a try)

[defense]

Flaystus, thanks once again for your response.

To answer your questions, yes, I "once" tried to reburn the very same movie I had the problem with. The movie was Ferris Bueller's Day Off. When I first burned the movie, the second to last chapter started to skip, freeze, pause, etc...but I thought it was a bad Verbatim disk, so I tried another one. When I tried it, I noticed something very interesting. When I burned the second disk, the problem was completely gone, or so I thought! When I went to the last two chapters, the problem wasn't there, but during the ending credits, THERE THAT DAMN THING OCCURRED AGAIN! I could of lived with the middle of the ending credits skipping, etc..but the problem is that if you've ever seen that movie, you will know that the ending credits still have more comedy and movie in them, so that disk too was ruined. What do you think about that? Being that I lost too much money on coasters, I never re-burned Minority Report or LOTR, and even if I did and the problem was solved, I still wouldn't be happy because I would of lost two disks in a 15 disk spindle. That ratio is way too high. I will try to burn at 2x,and I agree, those disks are 2.4x DVD+R's, so at least trying to burn at 2x is not a bad idea. Unfortunately, I don't have any more to test, and I'm waiting for 100 ACCU's to come in. I should have them either Today or Monday.


If that is the problem though, I think it is very odd that 13 disks would be perfect, while the other 2 are bad. If Verbatim is one of the best out there, then that Ratio is way too high. But as I said, the 15 disk DVD-R 2x spindle of Verbatim that I have used have NO problems whatsoever. So I am guessing it is either the speed of 2.4x, or the + format. Do you think there is any chance it has to do with the + format? Either way, with any of the two theories, 13 disks in a 15 disk spindle work perfectly. I am still baffled. Please let me know if you get a chance. Thanks again for your time.

[Gazorgan]

Something I'd like to point out.

If that is the problem though, I think it is very odd that 13 disks would be perfect, while the other 2 are bad. If Verbatim is one of the best out there, then that Ratio is way too high.

Demand for DVD+/- R has exceeded expectations. CDR's have caught up with demand, but the advent of 'cheap' DVD+/-R drives has skewed the market.

IMHO, quality control is not quite what it should be, in favor of profits now. I mean look at it from the manufacurer's point of view; "They are all 'backing up' DVD's, so if a few go bad, they can blame it on the technique". It's foolproof. 2/15 failure is high, but you can get away with it , at the moment.

Cheap, real cheap, branded, high end, it's all the same procedure. The only difference is type of dye and quality control.

I look at it like this; If my blank media costs 30% less than the 'good brand', but I have 10% coasters, I'm still way ahead. Blank CDR or DVD+/-R, same theory. The downside is verifying the burn. Is the difference between 80 cents and $3 dollars worth it?

[defense]

Gaorgan: That sounds great, but I don't agree with much of it. Verbatim is held to the highest of standards from my understanding, and they are the innovaters. Or at least one of the few. I can't see how 2 blank DVD+R's in a 15 pack spindle could be bad, because that number is just too high. As I said, when I dumped Nero and used RNM, every movie that had that problem at the end of the disk was burned again with RNM, and I didn't have the problem again. When I first was testing and experimenting and didn't realize Nero was seemingly part of the problem, I used a new DVD+R to burn Ferris Bueller's Day Off, and it froze towards the end of the credits, but not in the last chapter or so like the first DVD+R. I thought that was interesting too. I have read about people using ACCU & Ritek disks and burning 25 out of 25 or 50 out of 50 with no problems. Either those people are full of shit, or your philosophy is seriously incorrect. I will try what flaystus said, it may have something to do with the burn speed. But now i'm even discouraged more, because there is another post where people are saying all there DVD-R disks are freezing, and not the +R's. This is just crazy. I'm sure there -R's were burned at 1-2x. I guess I will have to keep experimenting.

[Faustus]

Defence, first off I highly suggest trying a slower speed when you get new disk. But if you think 2 out of 15 is too high (your are correct it usually is) then you should have been there when CD burning first started to reach the masses. Entire landfills could be overfilled with the moutains of crap that was churned out by alot of companies... but then after a few years the first "affordable" quality disk I ever purchases was a verbatium and I paid $2.50 each for them.

[defense]

flaystus: ok, I will try a lower speed. I don't doubt that MANY companies produced crap at first with burning CD's, and I don't doubt that companies produce much crap with DVD's now. But isn't Verbatim one of those companies who is held to the highest of standards? I just have a very hard time understanding how people on this very forum have said they have burned 25 out of 25 perfectly with Ritek, and 50 out of 50 with Accu's, and then I should accept 2 expensive Verbatim disks to be bad out of 15.

If that 50 out of 50 post is correct, then is there ANY possibility that those ACCU'S are better quality then Verbatim's? Any chance? Just by my ratio's comapred to theirs, it would seem that way. Thanks again for the info, I will have to try burning slower.

One more question, I don't know that much about this, but I know that burning MP3s to fast can cause hiccuping, etc...but when burning a DVD, if you were burning too fast, wouldn't there be as much of a chance of having the beginning and middle of the DVD-/+R have this skipping/pausing as there is at the end of the disk? I know you mentioned something about the density at the end of the blank DVD Media, would burning speed make a difference if that density thing is a factor? And is that density thing a factor with cheap media, if so, does that density play a role with the Verbatim's I am using? Thanks once again for any info on this HUGE problem.

[rma155]

I tried Accus at 1x instead of 2x on RecordNow DX and yeah there was an improvement, but movies still pixelated in certain spots (no more skipping or freezing, though). The improvement however wasn't worth the doubling in burning time.

[Thorn]

The media market has changed... even some of the "top" brands are producing some crappy discs. The old rules don't apply anymore. Some people say the only way to be sure the discs will be good is to only get ones made in Japan (most consistent quality control). The discs that are outsourced to various other countries have varying levels of consistency.

I never thought of Verbatim or Maxell as great brands for CDR, so I haven't tried them for DVD-R. The only brand that supposedly never outsourced for their cdr was TDK, but eventually they outsourced as well (caused a big stir amongst loyal users, too...) so who knows who to trust. Then again, CDR quality doesn't really correlate to DVD-R quality. I got one batch of TDKs that worked great at 2x, but another (the branded version) always had errors unless burned at 1x. You can't go by brand name alone in buying DVD-Rs, you need to do some tests and more research these days.

[defense]

@ rma155, how many ACCU's did you purchase, and are they the silver/purple? Are all your ACCU's bad. I mean, do they ALL show some form of pixelation? I put in an order about a week or so ago, and should have them tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest. I read several posts, and from what i've read, people were very happy with the ACCU's, but then I read that they are all over the place and you never know what you are going to get with them. What online place did you buy the ACCU's?


@Thorn, that makes sense, I never used Verbatim for CDR either. I always use Imation and have NEVER had a problem. I love imation CDR's and CDRW's. One thing that is for sure though is that NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, of my DVD-R's, both TDK & Verbatim, which were burned at 2x have ANY kind of problems. I basically fast forwarded through all of them and spent hours checking them again this morning. Only a HAND FULL of Verbatim 2.4x DVD+R's have the problem, and I'm really starting to believe from everything that I've read that the problem has nothing to do with the +R format, or Verbatim, and maybe not even the speed, although I will check on that though, but I think the problem has to do with VERBATIM 2.4X DVD+R disks themselves. It doesn't make sense that I could burn a total of 40+ DVD-R's that were Verbatim & TDK, and NOT HAVE ONE COASTER, when I get 2-3 DVD+R's that are bad in a 15 pack spindle. If these ACCU's are no good, they will go back and I will lose 15%, but I will ONLY buy TDK DVD-R's and VERBATIM DVD-R's in the future if that is the case. I am hoping my luck is the same as the people I read who have burned 50 out of 50. We will see though.


@ ANYBODY, being that my DVD-R's which are Verbatim and TDK had NO problems whatsoever, I decided to look at the bottom of all three disks. The TDK's, the Verbatim DVD-R's and the VERBATIM DVD+R's 2.4x. All three are purple, but one thing that is interesting between them is that on the -R's, the center circle and the outer circle have a very THIN circles, while the Verbatim DVD+R's has a THICK inner circle by the doughnut in the middle, as well as a thick outer circle by the edge of the DVD. Does ANYONE know why the +R would be like that? I'm wondering if that makes ANY difference at all. Also, my DVD-R's all say DVD R4.7, while my Verbatim DVD+R's say RW on the disk. What does that 'RW' stand for? I know it can't be Rewritable because the disks are DVD+R's and they say DVD+R on them as well, but there is an "RW" on the side of the disk where the other DVD-R's have that R.4.7. If anyone can tell me if either of these things can make any difference I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance