Pulldown nessecary??

[ocelot]

HI!!

I want 2 know when is pulldown nessecary?? only working with ntsc(23,97) files or pal(25) files too, because im working with cce and if I dont pulldown an encoded pal file it keep skipping on my dvd player but when I pulldown the movie it is out of sync. Its only with pal movies not with ntsc!!
Is there any solution for encoding pal movies with cce??

Thanxxx!!!

[paul_tp]

Pulldown is only used for converting from 23.997 to 29.997 FTPs, Pal never needs pulldown, and it does not make any sense to do so.

The fact that the video is skipping is nothing to do with the pulldown or lack of on a PAL file.

are you producing a VCD/SVCD or DVD, you might need to check your brand of media on your dvd player

Hope that helps

Paul

[snowmoon]

Pulldown should ONLY be used on 23.976 fps materal ONLY.

It converts the 23.976 file to a compliant 29.97 file ( SVCD and DVD require 29.97fps NTSC materal ).

Cheers

[ocelot]

Thanxx 4 your help so far I try to make avi-> svcd with cce and the problem is without using pulldown on my mpv(pal) file it keep skippin but when I use pulldown the movie plays perfect but it is out of sync!!
Could it be my player the infamous Panasonic RV-31 ??
Or maybe its the way I encode it???

How I do it:
1. Virtualdub save wav and avi
2. Resize and frame serve with virtualdub audio ->avi audio checked cause otherwise cce crash!!
3. Encode with cce
4. wav -> mp2 with tmpgenc
5. Multiplex mpv and mp2 file without pulldown
6. Rewrite the vbv buffer(vcd) with tmpgenc 0.12 because of my Player!!
Result: skipping movie but sync

or 5. Pulldown mpv to m2v and then multiplex m2v with mp2
and step 6 again!!
Result: no skipping but out of sync!!

Hope someone can help me cause Im a little desperate.

[puertorican138]

Can you tell us a little bit more about your source file and it's framerate?

[ocelot]

Well, it doesnt matter cause i tried it with different avi files but for example this time i tried to encode
Austin Powers 2 :

File : 695 Mb (695 Mb), duration 1:28:30, type AVI, 1 audio stream(s), quality 66 %

Video : 614 Mb, 971 Kbps, 25.0 fps, res. 576*320 (16:9), DIVX = DivXNetworks Divx

Audio : 81 Mb, 128 Kbps, 44100 Hz, 2 chan., 0x55 = MPEG Layer-3

Thanks for your help so far!!!

[homerpez]

First - DO NOT use TMPGENC as a MULTIPLEXER... this could be your problem right there...

Use bbMPEG instead, it's free.

Second - I don't know if I read correctly, but did you say you applied Pulldown AFTER you multiplexed?

If so, tsk, tsk, tsk. Pulldown needs to be applied to the video stream ONLY, then you multiplex the pulldown video with your audio stream (the multiplexer needs to see that it's pulldown FIRST.

Hope something there was helpful...

[homerpez]

Thanxx 4 your help so far I try to make avi-> svcd with cce and the problem is without using pulldown on my mpv(pal) file it keep skippin but when I use pulldown the movie plays perfect but it is out of sync!!

Um... and if I read THAT right... are you trying to apply pulldown to a PAL framerate source?!?!

Pulldown is only used for NTSC-encoded rates, only to make 23.976 (FILM rate) into full 29.97 frames/sec. And, only for SVCD's or DVD's (MPEG-2).

PAL is 25 frames/sec, all the time, every time. You MUST NEVER apply pulldown, otherwise you may get something like 32 or 33 frames/sec and make your player skip! PAL you simply leave as-is.

If you are trying to make PAL framerate into NTSC framerate, you have to re-encode it.

[mojo]

Wait a second! Let's back up a minute...

Snowmoon said that SVCD and DVD require 29.97... is this correct? I've ripped many a dvd that had 24fps frame rates and encoded the backup in the same way. Normal VCD has to be 29.97, but I thought part of the benefit of DVD (and SVCD) was it allowed a 24fps rate - if not only because it lets you deal with 25% less encoding!

[guitar_george_skank]

Only MPEG 1 (VCD2.0) can have 23.976FPS. VCD1.1 didn't even have PAL! MPEG 2 (DVD & SVCD) can only have 25 or 29.97.

http://www.vcdhelp.com/vcd

http://www.vcdhelp.com/svcd

GGS.

[ocelot]

First of all Thanks!!!

But unfortunately none of your suggestions work I tried to multiplex with bbMPEG without success, once again I pulldown the mpv file not the multiplexed mpeg!! NTSC movies are perfect but PAL movies are trippin and one of you guys said

PAL is 25 frames/sec, all the time, every time. You MUST NEVER apply pulldown, otherwise you may get something like 32 or 33 frames/sec and make your player skip! PAL you simply leave as-is.

If I leave as-is my player slightly skip!!But after pulldown its perfect but out of sync!! Why is that??
And is there any way to convert PAL 2 NTSC?? maybe that could solve my problem!!

[bugster]

ocelot, just read this thread and have a suggestion as to what may be the problem. Your RV31 does not officially play SVCD's right, so you use the TmpGenc multiplex to VCD header trick to get them to play. Maybe the reason SVCD is not supported is that the player is borderline on read speed for SVCD and using pulldown enables the player to 'catch up' with reading data off the disc whilst repeating a previously read frame/field. You could see if this is the case by encoding an SVCD (PAL) at a lower than normal bitrate, say about 1500 (without pulldown) and check whether this plays ok. I would suggest just using a short, 5-10min clip and CBR encode for speed.

As I said, its just an idea and may come to nothing but is probably worth a try.

BTW, I have the RV41 (same as RV31 but with built-in DD5.1) but the only SVCD's I have ever played on it are NTSC so I have never encountered this problem, maybe I should try a PAL SVCD

[ocelot]

@bugster thanks but didnt work!!

Could it be my cce settings progressive frames etc.???

Now what about this I convert pal to ntsc encode it and use puldown??
By the way how can I convert pal to ntsc??

[Chatwalker]

@ocelot

Try frameserving with DVD2AVI and VFAPI-ReaderCodec.
For PAL movies you have to set 'Field Operation' to 'NONE' in DVD2AVI.

Regards
Chatwalker

[bugster]

I dont use CCE but TmpGenc, have you tried that as an alternative?

Also if you want to try Pal to NTSC, its possible but a bit longwinded. There is a guide somewhere on this site, under the HOWTO Convert section IIRC. If that doesn't help, PM me and I may be able to assist with this.

[ocelot]

I tried tmpgenc and it works fine!! But Ive heard the the quality of cce is better and much faster!!!!

@chatwalker sorry but could you xplain me how to frame serve with dvd2 avi??

Thankss

[bugster]

I tried tmpgenc and it works fine!! But Ive heard the the quality of cce is better and much faster!!!!

The quality issue is very subjective. If would reccomend comparing Tmpgenc 2-pass VBR encoding against CCE 3-pass VBR encoding and determining which you think is better. (this is what I have read as being the most appropriate comparison). Of course if TmpGenc is close enough quality wise and using it for Pal solves your problems then why not stick with it.

As for speed, CCE is faster, but a 3-pass CCE encode is not THAT much faster than a 2-pass TmpGenc encode. (10 or 20% maybe). Is it really worth saving a few mins if the TmpGenc quality is sufficient and it solves all your problems with PAL?

[Donovan]

CCE vs TMPGEnc - is this where we start the debate again?

I think the general consensus is CCE is much faster (no debate on this). As for quality it (CCE) MAY be MARGINALLY better, but at $2000 (if you paid for it) it SHOULD be!!! For it's price, there is nothing to beat TMPGEnc.

I have never tried CCE (I suppose I should try the demo at some point), so the above is based on postings on this site. I personally use TMPGEnc (and before anyone ask's, yes it's paid for ).

[ocelot]

@chatwalker
With dvd2avi you can only frmeserve mpeg 2 files but I want to frameserve avi files.

[dens18]

ocelot , have you evey tried playing a dvd-r in your panasonic rv31

[bugster]

ocelot , have you evey tried playing a dvd-r in your panasonic rv31

I have the RV-41 (same as Rv -31 but with built in DD 5.1 decoder). It plays most DVD-r's fine but some cheap disks do stutter occasionally, like no more than half a dozen minor skips in a 2 hour movie.