What does the law say?

[lnetzel]

I need to know (no guesses please) what the law says about movie and Internet... what's a crime and what's not! I have serached for a couple of hours now an dI can't find andythin good that actually tells me what teh law says. I know it's different in each countries but anyway...

I heard it's allowed to Download movies but not to keep them on a public page for download, How does this affect FTP with account log ins and such... need to know!

[Feslmogh]

Here in the US it's okay to make copies of a media as long as you don't sell it for self profit (Bootlegs, that is). But if that media is an original I guess it's okay because you bought it and you can do anything with it within the law.

[lnetzel]

I seriously doubt that it's okay to make copies and distribute on the web, even If I bought the movie first.
That would mean people could get it for free and that makes big companies loose money and THAT I REALLY DOUBT would be allowed in the USA

[Feslmogh]

But with Napster, I usaully download very hard to find mp3's that you can't get anywhere anymore (e.g. Remixes, 12' singles, old stuff...)

[lnetzel]

Yep, so have I... I have actually tried to pay for a song I found there... but I never got any answers. From any of the companies I contacted.

But it's a little different when you find Pearl Harbour (just an example, dont' like the movie) free to download.

[KingJohn]

Hi

Quite a lot of people bend the law to suite themselves, then they "think" is ok. The "Fair use" means you can make one backup copy of your original, for your own use.

But that does not mean you can give it to anyone !!!!

With privacy policies and other laws to protect individuals, its difficult to stop people trading files. But believe me You CANNOT download a movie,song or any copyright work, this is illegal.

Ignorance of the law is no defense !

Companies like Napster have to be told that a song is copyright, then they must take measures to prevent people from downloading that song (Filters)

There are many artists that let you download the songs, some very old songs will not have copyright. When a filter is put in place to prevent "Ibiza By Venga Boys" then someone will share it with the spelling changed to defeat the filters "Ibisa By Benga Boys"

The battle is ongoing, the users remaining one step ahead. Be assured there are companies who know exactly what you are doing and eventually it will be imposable to download copyright material without risking imprisonment.

[bryanjohnfields]

I was watching Nightline back when this Napster, and online trading first started to get publicity. They said YES you could legally make copies of Media you OWNED, music, videos, etc. They also said that YES you could GIVE those copies away.

I don’t know the legal facts, but that has always been my understanding from back when I was a kid and we used to make copies of our 8-Tracks. You had to copy it because you didn’t know when it was going to self-destruct. Even back when we copied vinyl to tape we gave those away to friends. My bases for this belief: When I was in high school in the mid 80’s, I had a friend, who was 18, legal age to be prosecuted. He got caught for using his computer to hack Phone Calling Card Numbers and trading software via a BBS. After a search of his home (search warrant, hand cuffs, everything), it was found that he had 100’s of illegally copied audio and video tapes, 100’s of illegally copied and cracked software titles, and several illegally obtained calling card numbers. I was scared because my stereo, VCR, and computer had made a lot of those copies and my modem had spend many hours hack calling card numbers plus I had just as much contraband in my home. Needless to say, I lost a lot of items in the next couple of days. I can take to a sight were countless Computer disks are buried, we had a funeral and everything. Do you know what happened to my friend, myself and my other conspirators? NOTHING, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING, and to beat all, NOTHING was confiscated and no one else was ever questioned. I don’t even thing there were ever even any changes officially filed. My friend, we’ll call him Jesse because that was his name, send some time in custody but it had no effect on his military career, he was in the Amy Reserve at the time, nor did it keep him from getting financial aid when he went college and he now is engineer working for state.

If you think about it, if it were illegal to copy CD’s the record companies would have manufactures pull the commercial that show mixing and coping CD’s. With Newer CDR drives, what would be the purpose of being able to copy a CD in 4 minutes if you were not going to make a couple of copies to GIVE away. And if its not illegal to copy a CD how could it be illegal to copy a VHS tape, or DVD.

But back to your original question. On the Nightline I watched, they didn’t know the legality of online trading but its my guess that there isn’t much they can do about direct person to person online trading of media. If there was the record and movie companies would be going after these people that trade via ICQ, FTP, and Usernet. Those trades are completely traceable and in 15 minutes someone can find a half a dozen people willing to trade. In a week they could find a couple hundred people to make examples of and after a few months of that I think online trading would slow considerable.

My 2¢ worth.

[gambit32]

Try doing a search on the "Digital Millenium Act" I believe that's what it's called.

[bryanjohnfields]

I also have to agree with Feslmogh and his take on Napster and other Sharing venues.

I divide people who use online sharing into two categories: The Poor Student/Slacker with too much time on his hands and the Hardcore Collector. In my opinion neither really present a threat to the entertainment industry.

The Poor Student/Slacker is not hurting the entertainment industry because he would buy the music or movie anyway (he’s Poor) and regardless how much money they spend to protect their files he has the time to crack it.

The hardcore collector is only trading and file sharing because he can’t get it any other way usually because it’s usually not available. For example, I don’t download complete Music CD’s the time I waste finding all the tracks, putting them in order, making sure there are not glitches in the files is not worth the 12 bucks the CD cost. I do download single songs from some artist because some artists have are one hit wonders. I don’t download Movies because the time it takes to find the movie, download it, watch it to make sure its complete, and has good quality is not worth the 15 to 30 bucks I save. I make VCD’s of my Favorite Shows, but believe me I would rather buy them if they were available.

I think the entertainment industry needs to focus on providing a quality product at reasonable price and get off our back. I spend hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars a year at the movies, on CD’s, and DVD’s. I think the entertainment industry should be sending me a thank you letter and have some sympathy for me because of all the awful movies I set through, and the CD’s I bought that had one good song and the rest sucked. Its my opinion that the entertainment industry is still way in the black because the few files I download in no way make up for the crap that I have paid for that they sold to me.

[danmanx]

Basically any movie or tv show and most popular songs you get off the web is illegal. (Anything enjoyable you download is illegal; mostly true) Music trading online is semi-illegal also, except for the "free mp3s"...sorta like junky freeware...hee hee...

I know that Napster has seriously cost the music industry money (HAHAHA YES!!)...but it was just bound to happen. I've traded MP3s long before anything called Napster. My friends thought it wasn't a big deal...then of course Napster comes in...and suddenly anyone with an IQ over 50 is pirating!

Another factor is that more and more people like is making their own music compilations!! Who wants 14 tracks when you like only 1 or 2 on the shitty overpriced disc???

And as some have mentioned before...if there is no way to get that Audio CD in your area (Dracula Battle Perfect Selection) or that VCD (Batman Return of the Joker: Restored Version) the internet is the answer!

FYI, you can't buy the BROTJ: Restored Version. It's just a screener (with deleted/missing/extended scenes) restored with a DVD (or tape, i forget) original, censored to freakin' hell and back version. I got it off newsgroups along with plenty of cartoons that aren't shown either b/c they're mortararium or banned or just old.

Bottom Line:
Piracy is fun! So enjoy yourselves and worry about more important things like world peace or cleaning up the environment!

P.S. Should I even mention games...or e-books??

[KingJohn]

Hi

I would not take much notice as to what a news bulletin says, they tell you one thing one night and another some other night. I would agree that most peoples opinion is that you can make a backup copy of an original, but there it ends. There is no way you can give a copy to anyone, how many copies can you give ?. The other thought is, how many people that have music files on they're hard drive that were downloaded from someone with an original copy.

Person 1 gives a copy to person 2 (legal you say) but what happens when person 2 gives a copy to person 3 ?

Way back during the 8 track days, this was no big deal. A lot of people did it, but it was regarded like it would be as stealing apples off someone's tree. If you got caught by the tree owner he would give you a clip across the ear, and make you sweep his yard for a week ?? No ?

If the police came to your home, he might also give you a clip across the ear, or even take you to the police station and show you the cell, where he would put you if you did it again. Can you imagine that happening today ? If the owner of the tree hit you he would be prosecuted for assault. The police would not get in your house with out a search warrant, and if they went to the trouble of doing that today, you can guarantee they want to prosecute someone for the trouble its caused them. Age would be a big thing also, if you were under age you could not be prosecuted anyway, and you could not get a record.

We leaped into the feature, its 2001 there's been a few changes don't you think ?

Weapons, tools of the trade, yes the manufacturers have made things a lot easier for us, but hey it might be legal in your country to own a gun, but using it is another matter. There can be a perfectly legal reason for you to use the tools. Its perfectly legal for me to make my own home movies, and give them to all my friends. Its perfectly legal to make up music cd's with music that's out of copyright, or your in a band and make your own music, lots of legal things you can do with these tools, I'm sure you know lots of them.

DVD,VCD, VHS Tape, Mini disk what ever the media, its all the same there are many legal uses for these products. As for people getting caught and prosecuted for trading, well this is where there are other laws that protect the individuals rights. They would need to obtain the proof without violation of your rights, if they didn't they themselves could be sued.

Recently I heard that Adobe software now has spywere installed on your system. So if you download and install one of their products it connects to the site and gives them the serial number of the program, along with your IP address. Well if it happened to you or me, then the chances are we would not hear much about it. But if it comes from a large company you can guarantee they will take action. But there again, they could just take action against a few individuals....

But there again, install a firewall and stay one step ahead...

Yes someone mentioned the "Digital Millennium Act" quite right, that is something people should read, I have read a little, its very boring and difficult at times to understand but it does clear up a lot of points of view.

I'm wondering what category I come under Student/Slacker/hardcore collector ? He he, are all students slackers or is that two categories ?. Well what ever the category we are in, at the end of the day there is no differential, whether you download hard to come by music tracks, the top 20 or the latest blockbuster movie, when ever our reasons the law see's us as the same...

I think the entertainment industry is getting hurt big time, a lot more than they ever did. Before they shrugged the loss off as they just made a billion dollars on the latest blockbuster. But just look what happened with American pie 2, it was available for download a month before it was released, that's a heck of a lot of sales loss, one thing to download an old movie, they may have made a lot of money out of that, but they might be very angry when they hear the film is available all over the world, long before the premier. (good movie by the way)

"Bottom Line:
Piracy is fun! So enjoy yourselves and worry about more important things like world peace or cleaning up the environment! "

Yep I agree with that, lots more things in the world to care about than Piracy, BUT !

As they use to say on Hill Street Blues,

LETS BE CAREFUL OUT THERE