Very good ===FREE=== lossless 10 bit color codec

[BJ_M]

Blackmagic codec

here is the codec used on $50,000+ cinewave and high def workstations tht only the mac guys got before ..

go here http://203.94.147.64/support.asp and look down in lower right .. is the windows version for download -- but its packed in mac stuffit (like zip) .. there is a free stuffit decompressor for windows on the stuffit web site -- install it as min and extract and uninstall stuffit (stuffit is stuffed) ...

This is the Windows NT, Windows 2000, and Window XP version of our 8 and 10 bit universal software codec. To install, unStuff the file, then copy into the C:\Windows\System32\Quicktime director or just C:\Windows\System32\.

[BJ_M]

there is also a demo version of the microcosm lossless 64bit codec from digitalanarchy.com on their web site ..

[vhelp]

hmm, what a maze, and all fo ra louzy codec. Still can't find that damn
stuffit for windows - no link, other than having to fill out some damn form
with zillions of fields. Sorry, too much of a headcke for and not really
worth it.

I dumped the piece of sif file and moved on.
Tanx anyways.

-vhelp

[tonyp12]

As it is confusing to download, I put the final extracted file
here:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/t/o/tonyp12/BlackmagicCodec.qtx


You are suppose to put it in the windows/system32 folder.

But now what?, what program can use this codec?

[vhelp]

Gee, tanx tony.

I think that vdub may or may not, ahh, use it. Have you tried yet?
-vhelp

[BJ_M]

you select quicktime as your compression source (you have to have quicktime installed) and hit configure , and select blackmagic as the type..

you can further config blackmagic to be either 10bit lossless or 8bit lossy ..

it will compress apx 5:1 lossless in 10 bit color (per channel) and can be used in CCE , TMPGenc , MC or any editng app ..

there is a very good review of many codecs for use in professional appplications at http://www.onerivermedia.com/codecs/422uc.htm and blackmagic was thier favorite :

Black Magic 10-bit Trillions OSX 2.1 10-bit 30-bit 49,990 26.6MB
www.blackmagic-design.com
Here it is. It's difficult to be non-opinionated when something this good comes along. But something with such awesome development as this needs praise. Just look at that white count test! Have you ever seen so much black space?!! Not only does this codec look amazing, it does it in an incredibly efficient manner. Simply throwing extra bits at the problem doesn't fix the issue and Black Magic knows this very well. This codec uses 16-bit technology, but doesn't create a 40-megabyte per second file like the Cinewave 16-bit codec. No wasted disk space, no extra bits thrown out the window. For CGI/animation/visual effects artists, this is your codec. And best of all, throw your Black Magic 10-bit Trillions render into an AJA Kona 10-bit FCP timeline and apply your Kona real-time effects when needed. The only draw back is that the x10 generation test shows degradation (amazing since it replicates pixels far better than any other 4:2:2 codec can dream of), so the best thing to do when using this codec is to stick with up to around 3 or 4 passes before noticing slight chrominance loss and smear (Digital Voodoo actually handles this area better). Hats off to the Blackmagic Design team... by far the best 4:2:2 uncompressed codec available for any NLE system.

here is a pic of source , 1 generation , 10 x generations
http://www.onerivermedia.com/codecs/encode/422uc/bmd-10tri_osx.htm

here is a pic of source , 1 generation , 10 x generations

[ronnylov]

How can the codec be lossless if there is a difference between the first generation and 10th generation? I could definetily see a loss.

I'll stick with huffyuv.

[BJ_M]

huffyuv is much worse -- this is still lossless in terms of compress to uncompress...

i think you dont understand the testing method:
-- they re-encode the thier prev. encode over and then take that new pic and re-encode it again and repeat this -- 10 x


you do that to a huffyuv pic even at best settings and its really bad ..


huffyuv is pretty good , in fact very good for a lot uses -- but not perfect and doesnt compare colorwise to a lot of other codec's even at 1rst generation ..

that site - and company , have a lot of good information about compression on that web site ..

[ratt794]

Note:

HuffYUV is only lossless in RGB mode - not in YUY2 mode. YUY2 is 4:2:2 color space and RGB is 4:4:4. In YUY2 some color shifting will occur but it takes more than 3 generations to notice it. I have done testing with this and in RGB mode it truly is lossless and after 10 generations the original looks identical to the 10th copy. Try that with any DV codec and you will be un-happy with teh result.

I frequently use HuffYUV for my projects in YUY2 mode and it woks very well. It also produces better MPEG files than DV does due to DV's artifacts confusing the MPEG coding. Analog capture with HuffYUV is by far the best - I use virtual dub for this with Video noise reduction enabled at low level. Nothing beats that for quality although I am interested in the black Magic codec - if it is slower however it is not worth it to me.

Rob

[ratt794]

I looked at the picture samples of the source, 1st and 10th generation.
The 1st generation definetly has the effects from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 colorspace reduction and the 10th generation looks far worse.

I would say it is marginally worse than HuffYUV inYUY2 mode. I used a similar test image with HuffYUV and the color smear was less. In RGB mode this DOES NOT HAPPEN and it is 100% lossless.

I have to question wether Black Magic can do real time 720x480 capture.

[BJ_M]

ratt794 -- these profesional codec's are used to not only capture full D5 or hdcam at rates over 80meg/s-100meg/s - but are used editing most every movie you watch along with Auroa, avid and Microcosm and pNG ... they certainly be able to handle your home captures!

you are looking at the lossy part of the test - not the lossless section where there is no change what so ever .. even the author of huffyuv admits huffyuv could never stand up to other lossless codecs ..

i like huffyuv -- its fine (and in fact really good) ... and along with it and other codecs like pic are great for many uses ... i just offered this link for people to try it or play with it and im not saying you are forced to use it ..

i quote from his home page:

Some of the compression methods in the table below are lossy. (A comparison of lossless compression only wouldn't have been very interesting because, as you'll see, Huffyuv's competition in that category is--how do you say--pathetic.)

[easydvd]

I'll try ANY codec once......and isn't quicktime just another flavor of mpeg4 anyway?

Can you be a little more specific about the use of this codec? I think that most everyone here, myself included, is more familiar with Windows and Windows applications than Apple.

Specific questions I have would be

1)what apps can use it?

2)how to configure it to use with something like v-dub as the encoder

[vhelp]

Evening guys.

To my knowledge, I thought I had quicktime (QT) installed, but just stoped
using it. Seems, I must have uninstalled it and forgot.

I'm looking for the quicktime, at least the version that IS recommended
for use with the BM codec. I've ben tryint to install it, but since I don't
know the "handle" name, it's useless. I guess I need to find QT first.

If and when I do find it, I'll also give my comments/experience too.

Thanks guys.
-vhelp

[crahak]

Well, thanks for sharing the infos, but if you're capturing from VHS/DSS/DVB or somthing similar at say, 640x480, huffyuv is already quite overkill. Doing this, my limitation is the source... And I never reencode my stuff 10 times in a row. There are usus for it, but I guess it's just not for me.

[BJ_M]

QT is a wrapper as is AVI ... there are a bunch of codec's avaiable for QT like sorenson , DiVX, mpeg2, PNG, Video, componet, VP3, cinepak , mjpeg, and a host of others ....

i just copied the codec into the the windows/system32/quicktime folder .

i dont have quicktime pro installed btw -- just the reader v6.0 on this machine,.

i also went and ran regsvr32 BlackmagicCodec.qtx from the run line (prob not nessessary but what the heck --)

an example to use it...

Vegas Video .. put anything on the timeline and go to render and select quicktime and custom settings .. pick which quicktime codec you want to use and Blackmagic is listed (along with a bunch of others) ... and render .. rendering in 10 is a pretty big file at 50% or better quality ..

CCE will encode this .mov file nativly ... and do a great job also ...
TMPGenc will encode it if you have the QT plug in installed // which i dont remember doing but it worked anyway ...

now also -- VFAPI reader codec reads also quicktime files directly but seems to screw up on parsing them -- outputing about 10,000 frames more than it should but tmpgenc , using "save project" and then VFAPI on the tmpgenc project file works.. .

use of the qt wrapper is basicly like using any avi wrapper ... and is supported in many apps like all of adobe's , sonic foundry , ulead and others ..

[BJ_M]

Well, thanks for sharing the infos, but if you're capturing from VHS/DSS/DVB or somthing similar at say, 640x480, huffyuv is already quite overkill. Doing this, my limitation is the source... And I never reencode my stuff 10 times in a row. There are uses for it, but I guess it's just not for me.

you are right --- pointless on marginal sources ..

since codec's like huffyuv and various mjpeg codecs work so well on windows (also throw in there DV) .... we often forget the other ones ...