Sony's Double denisty cdrs

[epic47]

I just spotted these the other day....sony now makes double denisty cdr and cdrws....approx 1.3 g a cd. Has anyone used them yet?

[vitualis]

These can only be used in Sony's special DD-CD drives.

If you make such discs they will not be read by any other CD or DVD drive.

Indeed, apart from looking like a CD, it essentially isn't.

From memory, these DD-CDs can only make data discs using a form of packet writing. That is, there is absolutely no chance that you can make super long audio CDs or VCDs with them.

Regards.

[epic47]

damn it was a good marketing strag. it almost worked on me. They don't even mention that anywhere on the product.

[KingJohn]

I just spotted these the other day....sony now makes double denisty cdr and cdrws....approx 1.3 g a cd. Has anyone used them yet?

Well I was also wondering about this myself, so I contacted those people who really know. http://sonystyle.custhelp.com

This is what they said

Recently you requested assistance from our Online support team. Below
is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Double Density CD- Rewritable Ideal for backing up your work or
storing larg...


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Paulwin) - Sony
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry on the Double Density
Disks.

You can write the Double Density disks on any CD writer and will work
in standard CD/DVD drives too. You do not need a special writer for this
purpose.

Please feel free to contact the SonyStyle team for further assistance.

"Double Density CD- Rewritable
Ideal for backing up your work or storing large files, Sony's Double Density CD-Rewritable Discs provide up to 1.3GB storage
capacity. Witness our Double Density technology - the latest technology
advancement inrecordable CDs -- at work ..."

sonystyle@custhelp.com

[epic47]

I would be cool if they actually made them work for regular cd/dvd drives

[MOVIEGEEK]

vitualis is correct.I think Sony's support team is drinking too much saki.
Read what c/net had to say about the DD-CD drive:http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-1095-404-5614619.html
In fact the drive(CRX200) is no longer in production.Sanyo
will be releasing a 1.4GB drive shortly but it too will go the way of the Sony.

[Nelson37]

You are both right. Read VERY CAREFULLY what the Sony guys said, and more importantly what they did NOT say.

Ever use a 1.44 floppy in a 720k drive?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Although I have not used this format,every web-site who has states they
are NOT compatible:http://www.access.gpo.gov/procurement/ditsg/emag/nov_01/articles/htmlpages/fewgood.html
http://www.cdrinfo.com/articles/doublecd/page2.shtml[/url]

[Nelson37]

I believe you can use these as standard 800 MB disks in standard drives, which would make Sony's statement correct. Misleading, but correct.

[KingJohn]

Yes, I thought of this, but I did ask if the disk could be used in any drive, I also asked if anything written to that disk could be read on any other drive, AND... I also asked if a standard writer could be used to write 1.3GB

I have since written a reply, and have asked for more information, if it was not Sunday I would go and buy one

As for writing on a floppy, well years ago on an Atari machine it was easy to format and write 1.4 on a 720K floppy, and thinking about the disks which are available as CDR-W which does not burn the disk, and the very clever new writers I would say anything is possible, however I have never tried it personally and rely on what Sony have said "Or not said"

Even if they worked as normal, it is very misleading saying they dont work at all, rather than say they only work like normal disks, what every normal is...

Ok, was just about to post, when I thought I would check my mail..

This time I asked a lot more, will Nero work with these disks, will standard writers write 1.3Gb... and more.

Again this is what they said
[

Response (Suzzane) - 10/06/2002 11:25 AM
Thank you for contacting us with your inquiry on the Double Density
Disks.

The double density discs can be used with standard writers. They will
work perfectly fine with them. However if you need more assistance then
you can contact our Customer Support team at the following number:
1-800-588-3847. I am sure that they will be able to assist you.

The Sony Style team is available to assist you with further inquiries.

So anyone in the US want to ring that ?, its a free phone is it not ?

[vitualis]

It's your money to waste but I can guarantee that discs burnt in the DD-CD mode will not work on any other CD-ROM drive.

Similarly, no other CD-R/W drive will write to these discs in the DD mode.

Obviously, ordinary CD-ROMs burnts on this drive can be read as normal on other drives.

From memory, Sony used a special module with Nero to burn in the DD-CD mode (?? review in CDR-Info).

Read the independent review literature of this drive (a few months ago) rather than necessarily trusting the e-mail of a Sony representative...

Regards.

[KingJohn]

and more

Response (Vince) - 10/07/2002 01:13 AM
Thank you for contacting SonyStyle.com

Our Double Density CD-R's are supported by most writers. However, I am unable to confirm the compatibility of this CD-R with the drive that you own. I suggest that you please contact our Product Inquiry Team on 1-800-588-3847. They will be able to provide you with the necessary information.
Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.

Huh, whats a few pound's to try it, and when the firmwear upgrade arrives... who knows.. That reminds me I'll email them...

[vitualis]

http://www.cdrinfo.com/articles/doublecd/

On page 2:

CDRINFO: Will the produced DD CDs read by existing CD-Roms drives?
SONY: DD CD Drive will be able to read the current CD-ROM/CD-R/CD-RW discs, but the existing drives will not be able to read the discs of new format. (So, basically backward compatibility)
CDRINFO comment: This is the most major problem that the new format will have to face..

CDRINFO: If I understood correctly the Double Density term is actually not for the CD but for the drive. This means that we will be able to write existing media with 1.3GB? Or new media supporting 1.3GB will come out?
SONY: Double Density will be used for both drive and media. To have 1.3GB capacity, you will need both new drive and new media. DDCD drive will be able to write the existing media, but the capacity will be 650MB.

Regards.

[Nelson37]

I guess nobody else had an English Teacher like mine. The Sony guys are not lying.

Do these DD drives read and write "normal" disks? Yes, at 650MB.

Do the DD disks written at 1.3 GB read in "normal" drives? No.

Can you write the DD disks in a "normal" drive? Yes. HERE IS WHAT THEY DID NOT SPECIFY - The DD disks can be written in a "normal" drive, as standard 650 MB disks. At $2 - $3 a pop.

I have not used these drives personally, I got this from a tech article a while back.

You have to read company statements very, very carefully.

KingJohn you got it backwards on the floppy, in this example we are writing 720k on a 1.44 disk. A great thing, no, but it DOES work, which is what the Sony guys are saying.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I'm enjoying this discussion,I wish someone from Sony would chime in.
I doubt if any cd-rom's at all will read a blank 1.3GB disk because the 1.3GB disks are so out of red book specs.Case in point cd-rom's(players as well)can only read about 25% out of spec.that's why some players have problems with 99min. cd-r's.
The new Sanyo drive will use standard 700MB cd-r's to write 1.4GB,but
again they can NOT be played on standard cd-roms or players.
EDIT:Out of curiosity I bought one and my cd-rom says"insert disk".
So if anybody wants to buy it please PM me.

[KingJohn]

The plot thickens....

Ok I got a reply from Plextor, they tell me that they do not support the new media, and give a link to the media they do support (List of manufacturers like TDK etc)

Before I had a chance to ask about "support", I got another email from a different person.

Hello John,

I understand that a lot of people have been changing the firmware in the plextor drives to make them compatible with double density media. the disks that are made this way cannot used with any other drive, and we do not support this modification.

The use of unofficial firmware like this will also invalidate your warrantee, you should only use official firmware upgrades from the plextor website.

http://www.plextor.be/English/technical/downld_firmw.html

Ok so I did a search around for anything on this and found nothing, I then rang my local supplier who does not know much about them, but is getting the drives in next week, so I will have a play with one... And maybe buy one, meanwhile the search goes on....

[offline]

..waste of money. There are also 2 other DD formats that have also been developed and might be released - a 1.4gig CDR and a 1.2 gig high speed r/w. Given that no existing writer or reader (even DVD drives) can read any of these new formats why waste time talking about it?

[KingJohn]

waste time talking about it?

We got nothing better to do I guess, some people may be intrested even if your not.

Just an another update for those who are interested, I got another email from Plextor support, this time I asked if the disks could be used on a Plextor 40/12/40 and write 1.4MB of data...

This is what they said

Dear customer,

For further information about the unofficial recording media from Sony,
please contact Sony.
We can give you all information about the compatibility of official recording media.

Nobody wants to say NO Have decided to buy one just for the hell of it now...

[offline]

We got nothing better to do I guess, some people may be intrested even if your not

You misunderstand. I mean there is no point discussing
if the new formats are readable in current drives.
they are not - look at the pitch alignment required - for
those that don't know, the pitch can be viewed as the "tightness"
of the recording track which is in the shape of a spiral. To read
a higher pitch you need a new stepper motor and a tuned laser/head.

Firmware upgrade? again a waste of time. There is no way
to get current generation readers/writers to read/write this
format.. period.

KingJohn: so I contacted those people who really know.

Yeah right... <cough cough>

No doubt you are begining to learn that the most unreliable source of information about a product is a companies own PR and customer service unit. By and large these are staffed by entry level, low waged personel
with no clue about the basics of the company they work for let alone the products they sell. I'm not saying they are dumb, just new to the role and that as soon as they gain knowledge, they are promoted inside or look for succession paths outside their current employment.

[arealgijoe]

Question, Why bother with DD-CDR with dvd available. I hope to get a DVD writer soon, why not use a regular DVd writer like the A04 for data storage?

JD

[vitualis]

What is with you and bold and the evil face anyway?

If you don't have anything useful to add to the discussion in the thread, please refrain from posting.

Regards.

[KenHolland]

That's a bit harsh Michael. He's right, after all.

[Nelson37]

Technical considerations aside, the price for drive and media for the DD-cdr is being bypassed by DVD, figure in compatability and it is pretty useless.

Now if they ever make the ML drive, 1.8 gig at 100x speed equivalent for CD prices, supposedly an easy firmware upgrade - but it ain't here yet and DVD will pass that, too. Too little, too late.

[vitualis]

That's a bit harsh Michael. He's right, after all.

Yes it was a bit harsh. But I'm sick of this character jumping into threads with his "why would you do something so stupid?" attitude.



Regards.