Quality, Time, Money, trouble & VCDR vs computer encodin

[arealgijoe]

I have a question or 2 or 3;

Why try to burn more MBs that a disk is rated for?

Are you not just asking for more problems?

I have noticed several postings/topics here complaining about not being able to burn 756MB or even over 800MB on a 700MB/80minute disk.

with overhead and secotor size issues and more, its no wonder WHY so many have so much trouble.

I wish I could FIT a 2hr movie on one single CD-R/RW but it just is not practical. Fits on 2 CDs and use a 5 DVD changer.

I am sure it is rewarding and you feel a sense of acomplishment getting more out of a media than it it rated for.

What WORKS for ME;

For a slide video presentation I find VCD a good format, 704x480 resolution ofr stills. for stills I see no need or gain using SVCD etc. If I understand correctly SVCD simply adds lower (unwanted/needed) versions of the stills. Sounds backwards.

For short video segments, under 16 seconds use my Sony Mavica movie mode which generates std MPEG1.

For longer segments or movies I use my Terapin VCDR. I record 1 hour of video in about 1 hour, real-time. I also used it to make a VCD of my duaghters wedding last Aug. with 23 chapters using my Digital-8 camcorder as the source for the Terapin. Much faster, esier and better quality than I usually get using a computer for many hours.

I have also used my VCDR to make great looking MPEG-1's for use on computer.I spent more money on computer software (questionalbe value for teh dollars spent) than my VCDR that is just not as fast, easy or as good quality.

the only problem I have had is using lower quality VHS as a video source, the S-VIDEO (DVD-player & Digital-8 camcorder) input however give me GREAT quality videos not practical on computer.

Sorry I am an old foggie who like great quality but also do not like spending hours if not days on a simple project w/o a practical reason.

once I make a VCD on my VCDR the way I want it I do use the computer to make copies.

I also like nuts-&-bolts things that work!

JD

[MrPhelps]

You hit on the , It's the thrill of the kill when you make a vcd or svcd.

From my experience there are three types of people( if not all in the same) One downloads from kazaa type programs and pray for what they got. Two home video. Three DVD rippers.(News groups included in the kazaa type).

I kind of like all three although I favor the home video so I experiment with the others so hopefully I can make good backup svcd's from my 8mm camcorder.

Just my 1.5 cents

[sterno]

I have noticed several postings/topics here complaining about not being able to burn 756MB or even over 800MB on a 700MB/80minute disk.

Burning raw data to the CD (which is what you do when you make an audio CD or VCD) allows you to write a little over 800MB worth of data to an 80-minute CD, and a little over 740MB to a 74-minute CD. When people can't burn 750MB movies to 80-minute CDs it's because of some other problem, like the MPEG isn't properly VCD compliant and needs to be remuxed. The 650MB/700MB limit is for writing a data-mode CD, which includes more error control - small errors aren't really noticable in music, but they can be disasterous for data.

I spent more money on computer software (questionalbe value for teh dollars spent) than my VCDR that is just not as fast, easy or as good quality.

OK, I have to ask: how did you manage that? A Terrapin recorder costs somewhere around $500, right? I don't think that I've spend anywhere near that much, even including my real-time MPEG2 encoder card. And no, I haven't kept the cost down by downloading bootleg software.

[arealgijoe]

$500 for a terapin????

U kiddin?
More like about $250, new in box. just over $500 will get ya a Panasonic DVD recorder! That is on my Wish List. Ok I admit my Blueberry Terapin is so ugly its cute, well almost. at about 2 bits (25 cents) per 80 minutes is not too shabby. They play on ALL my dvd players, even my wife's Sony 300 series compact systme if I use CD-RW instead of CD-Rs.

I intend to get a Panasonic? e30 for basic recording and a Pioneer a-04 DVD burner for teh computer. That way I can use the DVDR for recording adn the A04 to make copies on cheaper media. I expect (or would like) to use DVD-RAM but I am not sure the pioneer wil play them.

I admit there are worse things poeple could spend orwaste time on than getting over 100% out of a media format.

My main function/desire is to get a job done with as few headaches and low cost. IE: bang for a buck.

Maybe Panasonic will come out with a e-40 that will use both DVD-R & DVD-RW media. Would sure make VCD life easier.


I bought 2 Pinnacle programs, neither did quite what the box claimed and several other not quite what the box claimed programs. At least one of tehm came with a fire-wire card, so not a total loss. The Tsunami programs are handy for converting to MPEG-1, best value of the whole lot and did what it CLAIMED to do.

Anyway, I will let you guys return to banging your heads against the wall.

JD banging out 3+ VCDs tonight while online.

[rsuave5]

its very fun and not so much time and money spent. im a freak so i dload porn all night with hi speed from kazaa, next day push buttons for a few mins set to encode goto work come home and burn to vcd or svcd take to work and sell at 5 bux a piece about a half hour footage, i do the same with music vids and bootleg movies still in theaters my family loves me and my boys think im king. no real headaches.
i agree with the dvd ripping in that its too labor intense, id rather get it used for 10 bux later, only head bangin i do is usually at concerts and old people should be shot. thanx

[MrPhelps]

its very fun and not so much time and money spent. im a freak so i dload porn all night with hi speed from kazaa, next day push buttons for a few mins set to encode goto work come home and burn to vcd or svcd take to work and sell at 5 bux a piece about a half hour footage, i do the same with music vids and bootleg movies still in theaters my family loves me and my boys think im king. no real headaches.
i agree with the dvd ripping in that its too labor intense, id rather get it used for 10 bux later, only head bangin i do is usually at concerts and old people should be shot. thanx

I hear a knock at your door.

[thxkid]

well I have the E20 - $549 and the E10 $399, use Ram disc in both at a cost of $5.95 each and make perfect edited down programs with it, use DVD-R's by primedisc that work perfect at $1.60 each, 1hr speed is magical while the 2 hr mode makes DVD Movie backups on DVD-R's idenitcal to the original and this is while viewing on a 36in JVC and 46in Sony projection screen. The full screen TBC in both DVD recorders really helps, even in crappy looking VHS I record to DVD-R.
I can record a 90min. program in 90min. plus 4 minutes to finalize, can't burn a DVD-R on a computer that fast, including the time to rip and author then burn. Plus with using the Timer and the FR speed (flexable speed) you can fit a 2hr. 15min. on a 4.7 gig DVD-R perfectly, the FR speed will adjust the bitrate to use just a tad less than the 2 hr mode(SP) to fit the extra 15minutes on on DVD-R without dropping to the 4 hr mode, can even use that for a 90min. movie it will rise the bitrate above the 2hr mode to fit 90min. perfectly on the DVD-R.
Stopped useing VCD's and SVCD's, returned the terapins and haven't look back since getting both of these gems.
Hey the rams allows you to watch a program on the same disc while you are recording, so you can record and playback at the same time on the same ram disc.

[rsuave5]

yes i do a little pirating for my boys. i mostly like vcd and svcd because i put music vids on them or make short home movies on them that usually are watched once or twice and pitched so its much cheaper for me that way and its good quality.
stuff i want in good quality or longer footage i put to dvd, i dont think you can argue one over the other because i use whatever format suits my need s for that particular app. i enjoy the challenge of just making a good looking disc no matter the format. isnt ripping outlawed? even for personal use? when i tried to dload smartripper at one site it said it was illegal in the states to go around macrovision?

[vitualis]

I have a question or 2 or 3;

Why try to burn more MBs that a disk is rated for?

Are you not just asking for more problems?

I have noticed several postings/topics here complaining about not being able to burn 756MB or even over 800MB on a 700MB/80minute disk.

with overhead and secotor size issues and more, its no wonder WHY so many have so much trouble.

No in fact. This is the second post you have mentioned this and it shows nothing more than your continued ignorance.

The 650MB and 700MB limits are for MODE1 or MODE2 Form1 sectors. You get 2048 bytes per sector of user data in those burning modes.

An 80min CD has 360,000 sectors. Do the maths and you get about 700MB.

The video tracks on a S/VCD are burnt in MODE2 Form2 sectors where you get 2324 bytes per sector of user data. Do the maths and you get about 795 MB of user data WITHOUT overburning. I have done this literally hundreds of times.

If you burn only to 700MB for a S/VCD, you are wasting up to 100 MB of capacity.

I strongly suggest you do some reading and learn about CD media and CD technologies before going on with your self righteous ranting. What gets me is the fact that you have obviously never even tried making a S/VCD up to disc capacity before. No one is burning "beyond" the disc rating. That is called "overburning".

Get your Terapin unit and record 79 mins of video on an 80min CD-R. Now take that disc to your PC and extract the MPEG file. How big is it? [sarcasm]Gasp! the Terapin burnt the disc greater than rated capacity![/sarcasm]

Regards.

[vitualis]

What WORKS for ME;

For a slide video presentation I find VCD a good format, 704x480 resolution ofr stills. for stills I see no need or gain using SVCD etc. If I understand correctly SVCD simply adds lower (unwanted/needed) versions of the stills. Sounds backwards.

For slide presentations, the recommendation is VCD. No on has ever suggested otherwise.

BTW, it is the stills on VCDs that contains the normal and high resolutions stills.

For longer segments or movies I use my Terapin VCDR. I record 1 hour of video in about 1 hour, real-time. I also used it to make a VCD of my duaghters wedding last Aug. with 23 chapters using my Digital-8 camcorder as the source for the Terapin. Much faster, esier and better quality than I usually get using a computer for many hours.

The Terapin is an expensive toy but if you have the money I suppose it is yours to use. By the way, the Terapin does not make real chapters, only multitrack VCDs. You can read the difference here: http://www.vcdimager.org/guides/chapters.html

The quality you can get by using a PC and software encoder is much better than that you can get with a hardware encoder -- especially if you make a SVCD with your Digital8 source. Similarly, you cannot author menus with the Terapin. If you find the "quality" better on the Terapin, that only means that you don't know how to encode high quality MPEG video on the PC.

I have also used my VCDR to make great looking MPEG-1's for use on computer.I spent more money on computer software (questionalbe value for teh dollars spent) than my VCDR that is just not as fast, easy or as good quality.

It should be noted that the production of VCDs can be made with completely open source or free software.

Regards.

[arealgijoe]

I bought several computer programs before finding out about vcdhelp. I did not know of its existance util I became frustrated with software that DID NOT do what they claimed on the box. I had been using tsunami program for a while, does at least work as claimed. Even before buying material for making VCDs I already had videowave (2 versions) that came with my videocards. Not bad but slow.

As for VCD v SVCD and stills I simply was refering to soem of my documentation. I thought it was rather strange or seemed backwards.

I wish I had learned about VCDHELP [BEFORE] spending or should I say wasting money.

Just because a software maker says their program/product run on such and such of a computer and does this and that does not mean its true. One software I bought, I had to take a screen shot in and SHOW them an error message that the program did not work on a OS version it claimedto work with on the box. I even upgraded to win98se just to run the software only to discover it stiil did not work, due to another NOT mentioned requirement. At least I was able to return it because the product was NOT as clearly stated right on the box. A no brainer that one was.


While I do like to tinker, I do not enjoy banging my head. yes I am an old foggie, some day you will learn to respect your elders. maybe we should send off all under 30somethings off to war, not. I would not wish that on anyone. Except maybe give a M16 or such to Bu$h, Cheney, Asskroft etc. and drop them out of a plane in afgan w/o food, water, money or women.

JD

[vitualis]

I bought several computer programs before finding out about vcdhelp. I did not know of its existance util I became frustrated with software that DID NOT do what they claimed on the box. I had been using tsunami program for a while, does at least work as claimed. Even before buying material for making VCDs I already had videowave (2 versions) that came with my videocards. Not bad but slow.

A lesson for all of us... Research before you buy...

As for VCD v SVCD and stills I simply was refering to soem of my documentation. I thought it was rather strange or seemed backwards.

It is actually entirely logical. I don't know what is on your documentation, but I suggest that you read the VCDImager manual sometime if you are interested.

Just because a software maker says their program/product run on such and such of a computer and does this and that does not mean its true. One software I bought, I had to take a screen shot in and SHOW them an error message that the program did not work on a OS version it claimedto work with on the box. I even upgraded to win98se just to run the software only to discover it stiil did not work, due to another NOT mentioned requirement. At least I was able to return it because the product was NOT as clearly stated right on the box. A no brainer that one was.

As above. Research before you buy!!

While I do like to tinker, I do not enjoy banging my head. yes I am an old foggie, some day you will learn to respect your elders. maybe we should send off all under 30somethings off to war, not. I would not wish that on anyone. Except maybe give a M16 or such to Bu$h, Cheney, Asskroft etc. and drop them out of a plane in afgan w/o food, water, money or women.

"Respect" is not simply given. It has to be earned and I must say that annoys me greatly when someone simply posts a list of "recommendations" without doing some research to be sure of their information.

I however apologise for being unnecessarily harsh to you in this thread.

I think that your experience is not unique for those people who have tried to get into "VCD authoring" with commercial software. Historically, bar a few exceptions, the commercial software available for making "VCDs" have been below par. This is, if anything, why the freeware / open source S/VCD authoring community is thriving.

Although there are some reasonably good commercial proggies now, they are still quite expensive and if you are willing to learn, the freeware / open source route will still give you the best customisation and quality.

The best general MPEG encoder is still probably TMPGEnc.

The best muxing tool is probably bbMPEG.

The best S/VCD authoring package is VCDImager +/- a GUI like VCDEasy or TSCV.

Regards.

[arealgijoe]

"Respect" is not simply given. It has to be earned and I must say that annoys me greatly when someone simply posts a list of "recommendations" without doing some research to be sure of their information.

Seems you expect RESPECT without showing it to others, if everyone refused to respect others until others bowed down before them, not one single person would have any "respect" for others.

I titled the section "What works for me"; simple, plain english. It means just what it says, no more or less. The comments are based on MY experience and preferances.

I realize that others have THEIR own experiences, preferances and needs. What works for me, may or may not suit someone else. This forum is a valuable resource that all of can learn from the experiences of others.

In fact the MAIN value of this forum is what works and does not work (hardware, software or technics) for others and the SHARING of the information.

Without the SHARING of ideas and experience this forum would serve no function.

I was going to reply to some of your comments but you own words speak volumes about you, so I do not need to.

JD my Respect is NOT FOR SALE

[Mirror_Image]

my Respect is NOT FOR SALE

It might not even be desired. One only seeks the respect of one's peers or one's betters. I trust that my meaning is plain enough.

Speaking of one's betters, as you did in reference to three noteworthy examples of your own, politics are a prohibited topic by the rules of these boards. This even applies to the off-topic boards.

No warez.
No politics.

Please remove the relevant paragraph, but feel free to post such tripe on the cnn.com boards, as you will be at home among your peers.