Urgent! 31 Year Old VHS Tape Help Needed!

[crusoe89]

Hi,

I am in desperate need of assistance. I decided to transfer a family home video (PAL) from 1984 to DVD using my Panasonic DVD recorder. I set it up to copy the tape and everything seemed fine. Suddenly after a few minutes of copying normally the picture went blank/snowy and all I could hear was sound. Now when I play back the tape on any VHS machine, there is no picture. I forwarded a few minutes and found the same problem - snowy picture, only sound.

Before I started to copy the tape I carefully played it and watched for a few minutes and there was no problem. Now the very moments I had been watching are gone, and the whole tape seems to be affected except about ten minutes at the start where sound and visuals are normal. These are precious moments that cannot be retrieved and ironically I was copying the tape for that very reason.

I would be very grateful if you could give me any advice on why the tape suddenly will not play the images when the sound is still present. Why is the start of the tape ok but the rest isn't? Is there a way to recover the tape's contents? The tape is record-proof (tab snapped off) and I stopped recording the moment the screen went blank. I have used VHS my whole life and have never encountered this.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Dianne.

[Tommyknocker]

You didn't say that when you inspected the part of the tape that is not playing correctly, whether or not if it's damaged.

[LMotlow]

We'd really like to know the make and model of VCR you're using. It could be the player, not the tape.

[crusoe89]

Hi!

Thanks for your replies. The actual tape condition appears to be fine. I played a section and watched it for a while before attempting to copy it and there was nothing wrong. The tape was not 'chewed' or damaged in any way that I could see. When I rewound the tape and began recording, the start was fine and then suddenly the picture disappeared as I watched, including the section I had viewed before.

The recorder I used is a Panasonic DMR EZ45V. After the tape developed the problem, I also tried playing it back on a JVC HRS5975 and both showed the same problem. Sound, no picture, except for the start.

Interestingly, at the part of the tape where the problem started there was an edit. Back in 1984 a professional had put a montage of family photos to music before the family function that is the main content of the tape. It's strange that the 'montage' part stayed intact but the event recording is gone except for sound. I have no idea if this is relevant. I also tried playing the tape back on a much older JVC machine that is not very reliable and it appeared to be playing the tape with visuals before the fault in the machine shut the whole thing down.

Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!

Kind Regards, Dianne

[hech54]

Does the damaged(?) portion of the tape play WITHOUT the recorder in-line - straight from VCR to TV?

[Tommyknocker]

Since the problem follows the tape and doesn't stay with the machine, I'm so afraid you tape has been edited by your professional where at the end of his montage, he re-recorded your audio but no your video to the remainder of the tape. Play the tape all the way through and see if any video ever comes back. Good luck!

[crusoe89]

Hi,

The 'fault' shows up when played straight from VCR to TV. The tape was originally produced with the 'montage' at the beginning back in 1984 - that's how it has been all these years. I played the start of tape in the Panasonic and it was fine in every way - picture, sound, all perfect. When I started to copy the tape (and watch it at the same time) everything was fine until it went from the 'montage' part of the tape to the event itself. Now the 'montage' remains, but the event has no visuals. I'm not sure this 'edit point' is relevant, I just thought it was strange that it was at that exact moment the picture was lost.

I have no idea what could cause such a thing to happen!

Kind Regards, Dianne

[jagabo]

Fast forward the tape to the end. Then rewind it back to the beginning. Repeat a few times. See if it plays after that.

[crusoe89]

Fast forward the tape to the end. Then rewind it back to the beginning. Repeat a few times. See if it plays after that.

Hi,

I'm terrified to touch it now! Would that really help? Could I harm it further by doing that?

[hech54]

Fast forward the tape to the end. Then rewind it back to the beginning. Repeat a few times. See if it plays after that.

Hi,

I'm terrified to touch it now! Would that really help? Could I harm it further by doing that?

It's already technically "broken"...

[crusoe89]

It's already technically "broken"...

Yes, I know...

But since I don't know the reason for this and I'm now really suspicious of the Panasonic, I don't want to unknowingly make things worse. It disappeared in front of my eyes!

[jman98]

Can you damage it further? YES. I'm not going to lie to you. Yes, you CAN indeed make it worse. The tape could completely break or what it has now that is seemingly OK could get ruined.

I get that you want help, but you're asking a bunch of guys on the internet to remotely diagnose and miraculously fix a problem remotely. The bitter truth for you is this - your tape may be permanently ruined and NOBODY anywhere can undo the damage. It's going to take an expert to do a hands on with your tape and possibly your VCR to see if anything can be done. I'm not saying it's for sure impossible to salvage the tape, but I'm also not giving the false hope that it absolutely can be fixed either.

Playing all tapes is risky. It's just the nature of tapes. Precious old audio tapes from recording sessions break during playback. Usually those can be salvaged by the experts. If you can find a video service where they really know their stuff you can try getting their help and see what happens. Untouched tapes can degrade over time too. Tape is a terrible long term storage media. There are stories on the internet of what a few high end audio mastering shops had to do with some old classical recording tapes from the 1950s and 1960s they were paid to remaster and it was a whole lot of difficult work including in some cases actually baking the tapes in an over at a low temperature to try to undo some damage. The sad truth is that any time you play a precious old tape to record it and save it in a better storage format, it could break or the playback device could damage it.

[jagabo]

The tape windings have probably become uneven causing drag on the reels, preventing the old VHS deck from playing the tape properly. A quick FF and RW will even out the windings and loosen the reels. Another way to do this (not as good) is to whack the flat side of the tape against your leg. First on one side of the tape, then the other. I say to use your leg because it's soft and won't crack the case. And it hurts so you won't whack it too hard.

[crusoe89]

Can you damage it further? YES. I'm not going to lie to you. Yes, you CAN indeed make it worse. The tape could completely break or what it has now that is seemingly OK could get ruined.

I get that you want help, but you're asking a bunch of guys on the internet to remotely diagnose and miraculously fix a problem remotely. The bitter truth for you is this - your tape may be permanently ruined and NOBODY anywhere can undo the damage. It's going to take an expert to do a hands on with your tape and possibly your VCR to see if anything can be done. I'm not saying it's for sure impossible to salvage the tape, but I'm also not giving the false hope that it absolutely can be fixed either.

Playing all tapes is risky. It's just the nature of tapes. Precious old audio tapes from recording sessions break during playback. Usually those can be salvaged by the experts. If you can find a video service where they really know their stuff you can try getting their help and see what happens. Untouched tapes can degrade over time too. Tape is a terrible long term storage media. There are stories on the internet of what a few high end audio mastering shops had to do with some old classical recording tapes from the 1950s and 1960s they were paid to remaster and it was a whole lot of difficult work including in some cases actually baking the tapes in an over at a low temperature to try to undo some damage. The sad truth is that any time you play a precious old tape to record it and save it in a better storage format, it could break or the playback device could damage it.

Ok.

I really only sought out a forum on the subject to see if anyone could shed light on why this happened. I thought it was very strange. I have used video tape all my life, fixed broken cassette cases, recorded tape-to-tape etc. and had never encountered such a weird problem. I certainly didn't expect anyone to 'fix' anything remotely, I just thought someone might be able to say 'yeah that happened to me and this is why'. I intend to take the tape to a professional service, hence my reluctance to mess with it any further. I'm not holding out too much hope but I wanted to educate myself a bit further on the subject by asking a few questions.

I am very aware of how fragile tape is and this was exactly the reason I was attempting to copy it in the first place. I handled it like it was an Edison Wax Cylinder and used the newest machine available to me, and still this happened. I just wanted to know what caused it.

Thanks for all your help.

Kind Regards, Dianne.

[crusoe89]

The tape windings have probably become uneven causing drag on the reels, preventing the old VHS deck from playing the tape properly. A quick FF and RW will even out the windings and loosen the reels. Another way to do this (not as good) is to whack the flat side of the tape against your leg. First on one side of the tape, then the other. I say to use your leg because it's soft and won't crack the case. And it hurts so you won't whack it too hard.

Thanks, I'll try that.

[jman98]

I am very aware of how fragile tape is and this was exactly the reason I was attempting to copy it in the first place. I handled it like it was an Edison Wax Cylinder and used the newest machine available to me, and still this happened. I just wanted to know what caused it.

Fine, but the point you seem to still be having problems is with is that without physical examination of your tape and player, EVERYBODY here is just making wild guesses. Jagabo may well be right but even that is a guess with some probability of being wrong. It just seems that you are expecting a definitive answer and that's not possible from a distance.

[newpball]

Since the problem follows the tape and doesn't stay with the machine, I'm so afraid you tape has been edited by your professional where at the end of his montage, he re-recorded your audio but no your video to the remainder of the tape.

Yes, I think that is the most likely explanation.

[crusoe89]

Fine, but the point you seem to still be having problems is with is that without physical examination of your tape and player, EVERYBODY here is just making wild guesses. Jagabo may well be right but even that is a guess with some probability of being wrong. It just seems that you are expecting a definitive answer and that's not possible from a distance.

'Wild guesses', ideas, opinions, suggestions, facts, technical expertise etc. are the sorts of things I came here looking for, just as anyone on a forum would. I said nothing in my posts to suggest I was expecting a 'definitive answer' and I certainly don't have a 'problem'. I thought asking some questions on the 'Restoration' section of a forum called 'VideoHelp' might point me in the right direction.

[johnmeyer]

Since the tape did play OK the first time, it clearly is NOT related to how the the original video was edited.

Here are a few thoughts that haven't been expressed yet.

1. Put the tape in another VCR, and queue it up to the point where the video disappears. Then, pull the tape out. Since you are familiar with VHS cassettes, you know about the little release button on the right side of the cassette that releases the dust cover so it can be pulled away during playback. Press that button and carefully, without touching the tape, hinge back the cover and look at the tape. Is it obviously crinkled along the edges? It is possible that your deck is misaligned and is eating tapes. If you think this might be happening, find a junk tape that has something on it, and let it play for awhile. Does that tape also experience problems after awhile? I have seen situations where the tracking/alignment goes haywire, and the tape gets pushed up/down too far and this results in crinkling of the edges.

2. While you have your tape in that other VCR, play a little of the part that is still intact, and note on the screen or front panel what playback speed is reported (i.e., SP, EP, or that oddball intermediate LP). Then, when the tape hits the bad part, see if the playback speed changes to something else. It is possible that the tape was played back at different speeds, and the suspect portion is played at a lower speed. If so, the auto-tracking control may not be able to keep up with the change, especially if there is a large difference between the alignment of the deck used to create the tape, and the alignment of the two decks you are now using for playback. If so, it is possible that the auto track locked in the first time you played it, but just couldn't do it on subsequent tries.

If #2 if the problem, then you should be able to fix it by finding out how to change your VCR to manual tracking. Just run the tracking control from one extreme to the other and see what happens. I highly recommend you do this in any event, whether there is a speed change or not, but only do it on the original deck after you have verified that it has not damaged your original tape, or the junk tape you use as a test.

[newpball]

Since the tape did play OK the first time, it clearly is NOT related to how the the original video was edited.

That's not my understanding. The posted said he checked before the 'former edit point' and that everything was ok, as far as I understood he never tested after the 'former edit point'.

[crusoe89]

Hi!

Since the tape did play OK the first time, it clearly is NOT related to how the the original video was edited.

I agree that it is not the original editing as the whole tape played fine for 30+ years until yesterday!

1. Put the tape in another VCR, and queue it up to the point where the video disappears. Then, pull the tape out. Since you are familiar with VHS cassettes, you know about the little release button on the right side of the cassette that releases the dust cover so it can be pulled away during playback. Press that button and carefully, without touching the tape, hinge back the cover and look at the tape. Is it obviously crinkled along the edges? It is possible that your deck is misaligned and is eating tapes. If you think this might be happening, find a junk tape that has something on it, and let it play for awhile. Does that tape also experience problems after awhile? I have seen situations where the tracking/alignment goes haywire, and the tape gets pushed up/down too far and this results in crinkling of the edges.

I checked the physical tape in the way you suggested before I ever played the tape as my biggest fear was the tape's integrity. After the picture disappeared I checked the tape again and it seems to be perfect. No crinkling or misalignment anywhere.

2. While you have your tape in that other VCR, play a little of the part that is still intact, and note on the screen or front panel what playback speed is reported (i.e., SP, EP, or that oddball intermediate LP). Then, when the tape hits the bad part, see if the playback speed changes to something else. It is possible that the tape was played back at different speeds, and the suspect portion is played at a lower speed. If so, the auto-tracking control may not be able to keep up with the change, especially if there is a large difference between the alignment of the deck used to create the tape, and the alignment of the two decks you are now using for playback. If so, it is possible that the auto track locked in the first time you played it, but just couldn't do it on subsequent tries.

I'll definitely try that. It really fits with what seemed to happen.

If #2 if the problem, then you should be able to fix it by finding out how to change your VCR to manual tracking. Just run the tracking control from one extreme to the other and see what happens. I highly recommend you do this in any event, whether there is a speed change or not, but only do it on the original deck after you have verified that it has not damaged your original tape, or the junk tape you use as a test.

Again something I will try ASAP.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

Kind Regards, Dianne.

[crusoe89]

Since the tape did play OK the first time, it clearly is NOT related to how the the original video was edited.

That's not my understanding. The posted said he checked before the 'former edit point' and that everything was ok, as far as I understood he never tested after the 'former edit point'.

Hi,

I am very sorry I was not clearer in my explanation. The tape has worked fine, edit point and all, for 30+ years. The tape consists of a 'montage' and then a family event that were professionally produced 30 years ago and always played normally, including when I first played the tape yesterday. I was watching the video as it copied and the visuals suddenly disappeared from the screen right at that edit point, leaving only audio for the rest of the tape. That's what's so strange - it played fine on both sides of the edit point yesterday, and then suddenly lost the picture as I was copying, leaving only the first little 'montage' intact.

Kind Regards, Dianne.

[crusoe89]

Hey,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I played the tape again, checked all the settings, and ran the tape forwards and backwards. While forwarding and rewinding the image gradually became visible again until it was totally clear, but only during fast forward and rewind, not actual playback. At least now I know the footage is still intact on the tape and I will take it to a professional service to be copied.

I appreciate all your help.

Kind Regards,

Dianne.

[johnmeyer]

I was going to suggest doing forward/reverse. It is a "poor man's" way of clearing a head clog. You may only need to clean the heads. Best to use a wet cleaner or, if you know how, use some professional chamois wipe sticks.

[crusoe89]

I was going to suggest doing forward/reverse. It is a "poor man's" way of clearing a head clog. You may only need to clean the heads. Best to use a wet cleaner or, if you know how, use some professional chamois wipe sticks.

Hi,

The forward/reverse seemed to be what did the trick and I am just relieved to know the footage is still there, even though it still doesn't work properly on playback. The VCR I used is pretty new and seems to be very sensitive to tapes - sometimes they just won't track properly at all and are unwatchable even though there's no equipment fault. I was at a loss to explain why the tape played properly and was crystal clear, and suddenly gone! I thought I may have left it too late to copy.

Thanks for all the advice! I'm probably going to take the tape to a professional to have it duplicated to disc - then I can copy it endlessly!

Kind Regards,

Dianne.

[johnmeyer]

Just a reminder: re-read my original post. The main piece of advice was to learn how to use your manual tracking control. I would recommend you do that before you invest in expensive and possibly un-needed head cleaning. I transfer VHS tapes all the time (and do lots of restoration, which is why I lurk in this forum). I've seen many tapes that could not be tracked automatically, especially those recorded at the EP (slow) speed. Manual tracking almost always lets me get the job done.

You may have to adjust the manual tracking while playing, and may have to capture the problem tape more than once, with different tracking settings. You then combine together the best parts of each capture.

[2Bdecided]

Do "modern" VCRs give access to manual tracking control? I'm sure I've got some that don't, but maybe it's buried very deep in the menus.

Cheers,
David.

[johnmeyer]

Do "modern" VCRs give access to manual tracking control? I'm sure I've got some that don't, but maybe it's buried very deep in the menus.

I've never seen one that didn't. It is often only available on the remote, via the channel up/down buttons.

You have to read the manual to know where it is.

[addu]

it seems to me like nigerian scam case

[crusoe89]

Just a reminder: re-read my original post. The main piece of advice was to learn how to use your manual tracking control. I would recommend you do that before you invest in expensive and possibly un-needed head cleaning. I transfer VHS tapes all the time (and do lots of restoration, which is why I lurk in this forum). I've seen many tapes that could not be tracked automatically, especially those recorded at the EP (slow) speed. Manual tracking almost always lets me get the job done.

You may have to adjust the manual tracking while playing, and may have to capture the problem tape more than once, with different tracking settings. You then combine together the best parts of each capture.

Hi,

Yes, I tried manual tracking. My original problem was that I couldn't see any picture at all and was worried the tape had corrupted somehow and the content lost. Now I can see the visuals clearly during rewind/forward and it's only when I play at normal speed that the tape won't track. I cycled though the tracking manually a number of times during playback, but the image just won't settle and is mostly snowy. This has been my experience with many tapes on the Panasonic, which seems very picky about what tapes it will play properly, old and new. Why it played this particular tape properly the other day, but now it won't, is a mystery. I think a different machine, especially one that a professional duplicating service would have, should have no problem playing the tape correctly. At least, my fingers are crossed they will!

Many thanks for everyone's suggestions. In this case I think forwarding/rewinding the tape a few times allowed me to at least see the tape was not scrubbed.

Kind Regards,

Dianne.