Question about Capturing Audio from TOSLINK

[drfsupercenter]

Alright, so I'm hoping some members of this fine forum can help me out.

Being a "quality whore", I try to get the most out of my captures when recording. What I'd like to do is record audio from video game consoles via optical TOSLINK (S/PDIF) to a lossless WAV file on my computer.

Right now I have a cheap USB sound card, something like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370828387827

It supports 48kHz stereo input, and using my Xbox 360 I am able to record audio perfectly. The video I handle separately so I'm not going to discuss how I do that, as I already have that part figured out

However, devices like the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 use hardware encoding so the audio is really awful quality, even over HDMI. Therefore I record it separately and mux it in.

At any rate... the results are truly lossless from the Xbox 360 and it works great. However, the problem arises with my other consoles... the PS3 and the Wii U.

Wii U, of course, has no optical output, only HDMI. So I bought one of these:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

Thing is, I can't get it to work with my capture box. The switch itself does work, as I tested it using my Onkyo receiver at home, but the computer picks up nothing. It thinks there's absolutely no audio whatsoever even when I have the optical cable connected from the switch to my sound card and the HDMI out to the TV so I can see what's happening.

The PS3 also does something rather odd. I get sound when I'm on the XMB, as in I can record all the little clicks the system makes when I navigate around. But as soon as I start the game, it goes dead silent. I seem to be able to record audio CDs over TOSLINK, but not videos. So I'm thinking it's some sort of copy protection. I just don't understand why it would work at all, I know the PS3 uses HDCP at all times... even on the menu.

Any ideas? I was hoping I could use the HD PVR 2 as a sort of "buffer", at least for the Wii U... but after doing some tests, it appears it does encode the audio lossy as well so it would be a moot point.

--Edit--

If anybody knows of a device (similar to the Monoprice one I linked) that can basically take an HDMI source and output lossless stereo audio over TOSLINK, let me know. I think the Monoprice box simply demuxes it, so if the console tries to use surround, it will output surround and so on. If it actually re-encoded the audio, that would probably play nice with the sound card.

[Brad]

The PS3 turns on SCMS copy protection selectively, as you've noticed. The HDMI -> TOSLINK converter likely also uses SCMS on its output, for the purpose of adhering to HDCP. The design would be simplified by having the copy protection always-on.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1121367-inconvenient-truth-abo...l#post19349990
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1121367-inconvenient-truth-abo...l#post21697898

[usually_quiet]

However, devices like the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 use hardware encoding so the audio is really awful quality, even over HDMI. Therefore I record it separately and mux it in.

It is true that the current Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 models do hardware encode audio to AAC if they receive LPCM audio via HDMI. However, if they receive 2-channel AC3 audio or 5.1 channel AC3 via HDMI, it can be captured with no re-encoding. So if you have the option to bitstream 2-channel AC3 audio or 5.1 channel AC3 audio from the device you are capturing from, try it. You would most likely be capturing the audio in its original format as is. Capturing LPCM won't improve upon that.

[Brad]

For his video game captures, I believe AC3 compression of the final mix is done on-the-fly by the console, from whatever source formats existed on the disc. I suppose cutscenes could be an exception.

[drfsupercenter]

At least in the case of the Xbox 360, there's an option to output stereo LPCM, so it's actually not compressed at all.

Depending on the game, I've gotten pretty good results. You're right that some audio is pre-rendered anyway, but others aren't - it all depends how it's stored in the game. I've gotten close to CD quality from some games.

I had a hunch that was what was happening with the PS3. My cheap sound card does mention it's SCMS compliant, but I wasn't sure what all that meant. Does that just mean it mutes itself when it detects the SCMS flag?

I am curious about the Monoprice box and the Wii U, though. The Wii U doesn't use HDCP or anything, since I can record the video on my HD PVR 2 just fine. So I wonder why the Monoprice box isn't outputting an optical signal my sound card can pick up? Is it not using LPCM (like, even if you have stereo selected, maybe it's doing stereo AC3?) or do you think it's the splitter itself not doing what it should?

I'm going to do some more testing with that unit and my Xbox 360 to see where the problem is.

I'm not sure what the rules on this forum are about this sort of thing, but just as a completely hypothetical question... would stripping or bypassing the HDCP signal from the PS3 also remove the protection on the audio or is that only for video? I won't elaborate more unless it's OK.

--Edit--

OK, so I think I confirmed something. Using the Xbox 360, connected via HDMI to the Monoprice box, then out to both my TV (HDMI) and sound card (TOSLINK), I get the same result as if I connected the TOSLINK cable directly to the 360 itself.

But then I try the same with the Wii U and I get nothing. Though interestingly enough, Audacity does record, but it records silence. If I try to record when there's no signal at all (like if my console is turned off or the TOSLINK cable is unplugged), it just starts in a paused state.

I don't know much technical details about the Wii U, but I'm pretty convinced by this that it's not outputting LPCM audio even if I select Stereo instead of Surround. Does anyone know what it *does* output? For Wii U recordings it might just be best to use the HD PVR 2 by itself and not try to mux in higher quality audio. (Shame, since some of the Super Smash Bros. audio files are near CD quality, even on the Wii...)

[Brad]

OK, so I think I confirmed something. Using the Xbox 360, connected via HDMI to the Monoprice box, then out to both my TV (HDMI) and sound card (TOSLINK), I get the same result as if I connected the TOSLINK cable directly to the 360 itself.

[...]

I don't know much technical details about the Wii U, but I'm pretty convinced by this that it's not outputting LPCM audio even if I select Stereo instead of Surround.

Interesting. What happens if you connect the Xbox 360 in this manner and have it output Dolby?