Permanent Subtitles

[COlson]

For the Past few days I have been trying to put permanent subtitles into a DVD. The closest I have got to this is creating subtitles in SubtitleCreator, using its DVD Authoring Wizard, then using PgcEdit to default the subtitles to "on." The issue is that I can open up the DVD in programs like VLC and Media Player Classic and turn off the subtitles.

I have previously tried editing the video to have the subtitles as part of the video stream, but that messes up the rest of the DVD (the menus don't work). My end product needs to be a DVD(.vob, .ifo, .bup, etc.) of the same video/audio quality, with subtitles that cannot be turned off. Is this Possible, and I just don't see the solution because I am new at this? Or is it actually impossible, and I didn't see that because I am new at this?

[manono]

The issue is that I can open up the DVD in programs like VLC and Media Player Classic and turn off the subtitles.

Why is that a problem? They're on when you watch. You have to purposely turn them off not to see them.

Anyway, it's not enough to just turn them on. In PGCEdit you have to both set them to on as well as set them to forced.

I have previously tried editing the video to have the subtitles as part of the video stream, but that messes up the rest of the DVD (the menus don't work).

It's a simple matter to encode the subs as part of the video and then replace that DVD back into the original one, keeping the menus and everything else. You use VobBlanker for that. But it's a pretty dumb idea to do that when DVD subtitles should be selectable. Unless they're for alien and foreign language talk and signs and the like. Then they should be either forced or burned into the video.

[r0lZ]

To prohibit turning the subtitles off while the movie is playing, just set the "Subpicture track change" PUO in the PGC of the title. (Double-click the movie PGC in the left pane to open the PGC Editor, then click the "..." button next to the Prohibited User Operations field and tick the right PUO box.)

[manono]

To prohibit turning the subtitles off while the movie is playing, just set the "Subpicture track change" PUO in the PGC of the title.

Oh, so setting them as forced doesn't keep them from being turned off? A PUO has to be created for them. Didn't know that. Thanks.

[r0lZ]

No, our method should work. Forced subtitles are shown anyway, as long as the user cannot change the subtitle track number. But IMO it is more difficult to change the forced flag of all subtitles in the stream (although it's possible with DVDSubEdit). Turning the PUO on is easy, and works fine.

[COlson]

Im very close! Thank you both for your help. Most of the time The subtitles display by default and cant be switched. The only exceptions to this are when I use VLC player or my standalone DVD player (Toshiba SD3980). In VLC, I am still able to Change the subtitle track, while my standalone DVD player defaults to no subtitles, but it is still prohibited. Otherwise, everything works perfectly!

I imagine that the case with VLC is that being able to change streams no matter what is a feature of VLC. As for why the subtitles do not display by default on my Toshiba, I have no clue. I do not know if that is just how that DVD player works or if I messed up setting the default subtitle stream.

EDIT: I used this guide. http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/2cool/subtitles/subtitles_on_de...lt_pgcedit.htm
I have tried both of these commands. Neither have worked on my standalone:

[51 00 00 00 C0 00 00 00] 1 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 0, on
[51 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00] 1 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 63:forced

EDIT 2: I looked at the user manual for my Toshiba and in the subtitle section, it says, "Some DVD video disks are set to display subtitles automatically and you cannot turn them off even if you set the subtitle function to off." This has confused me more, since I don't know if it is referring to hardsubs encoded in the video, or if it means that setting default subtitles is actually possible, and I'm just a newbie.

[r0lZ]

VLC is known to be less DVD standard compliant than many other players. Don't use it to test.

The first SetSTN command is the one to use.

If you are sure that your SetSTN command is executed when you play the title, they should be visible. If your Toshiba doesn't show them, it has a bug.

To be sure that the SetSTN command is executed, use the trace mode. During the playback of the movie, the virtual player panel should show you that the subtitle is active. If it shows "62: Not set", then you did something wrong.
Furthermore, if you have set the PUO, the button with the subtitle text should be greyed out, indicating that you cannot change it.

Additionally, you can also turn the forced flag of all subtitles of the stream: load the VOBs in DVDSubEdit, select any subtitle, change the "Start command" from "Normal start" to "Forced start", and then use the menu "Edit -> Apply last modifications to all". Save. This will give you an additional guarantee that the subtitles cannot be turned off.

[COlson]

Yes! Everything works exactly how I need it to. Where I went wrong was not actually making the subtitles forced. I Thought I set them to forced using ifoEdit, by double clicking on the subtitle stream and selecting "forced caption"" from the Coding caption drop down box. I guess this didn't actually set the captions to forced. Was I just setting some unused flag in ifoEdit, or was that also necessary in making the subtitles forced>

Either way, changing the subtitles to "Forced start" in DVDSubEdit worked though! Thank you everyone for your help. I just started DVD editing 2 weeks ago, so I really have no idea what I am doing, but this really helped.