DVR help

[shadowstep]

Hi All,

Not sure where to post this.

Anyway, I have been using a Magnavox DVR with Comcast basic cable for many years. It's a Magnavox MDR535H/F7 HDD/DVD Recorder. About 2 weeks ago it started freezing for a few seconds and then quit recording. However, my TV would still work fine. Please keep in mind I am using Clear QAM channels without a cable box.

My first thought was the tuner in my DVR went belly-up. I bought a new DVR which is almost the same except it has a 1 terabyte hard drive instead of a 500 mb hard drive. The new one is a Magnavox MDR537H/F7 HDD/DVD Recorder.

After replacing my DVR, I still have the same problem. TV tuner works fine but DVR quits. I've checked everything I can think of and even replaced two spitters which shouldn't make any difference since the TV and DVR use the same cable feed.

So now I'm starting to think maybe Comcast is changing the cci flag while broadcasting over the air Clear QAM channels. Is this possible? Is there any way I can check the cci flag?

cci flag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information

Thanks for any help.

shadowstep

[smrpix]

..

[jman98]

Look at this thread and specifically start with post #39. Also look at #40 as both may relate directly to your problem.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/356615-Cablevision-preventing-Timed-DVD-Recording-W...at-To-Do/page2

As a former Comcast customer I can tell you that sometimes they are just simply incompetent rather than malicious, but based on the posts in the thread in my link, I suppose there is some chance that they are simply doing what they are now legally allowed to do. I have no idea how you can check the flag. Maybe others know.

[sambat]

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/limited-basic-encryption/

Maybe your government (if you're in the US) has given them the nod to require that you assume the traditional position.

[sanlyn]

There is no government in the U.S. There are only lobbyists.

[orsetto]

All of the Magnavox DVD/HDD tuners (H2160, 513, 515, 533, 535 and 537) have design flaws which prevent them from properly handling the wide assortment of QAM glitches that started emanating from cable companies about 18 months ago. There is nothing you can do once your local service area switches over to these buggier signals: no Magnavox can cope. In basic terms, the tuners built into most HDTVs are "integrated" in such a way that they can just "roll with it" when your cable service screws around with the signal. The Magnavox recorders use a "discrete" tuner design (for lack of a better word) that is incapable of "rolling with it" - they lock up the recorder instead, often making it play dead so it requires a hardware reset. There are little tricks you can try to make it tune the channels again after it crashes, but these fixes are temporary at best and rarely last longer than a week before the unit crashes again.

If you don't particularly want to burn DVDs, and you're only using the HDD as a cheap PVR, all I can tell you is "them days are over." There is no "cheap" once ComCast bites you with signal changes: if you'd prefer to keep the Magnavox, you'll need to rent two full-size decoder boxes with line outputs to feed the front and rear line inputs of the Magnavox. This will allow timer setting of two programs on different channels at different times. (A third box could be connected to the rear RF input, allowing three independent timer options). Or, rent the Comcast PVR and use that: it has three tuners and can record three programs simultaneously. You could always dub the shows you want to keep from the Comcast PVR to your Magnavox.

Unfortunately, no other DVD/HDD recorder (besides Philips/Magnavox) was ever sold in USA/Canada with the digital ATSC/QAM tuner necessary in North America. You could look into second-hand non-HDD Panasonic, LG and JVC recorders: the last versions of these did have digital tuners (but no hard drive). These other brands of digital recorder tuners handle QAM issues better than the Magnavox but not quite as good as TV sets themselves. You would be limited to direct-to-DVD recording with these machines, and they aren't that cheap even second hand (people are asking upwards of new Magnavox prices for older Panasonic DVD/VHS models with QAM on eBay).

Comcast is so shoddy and recorder-hostile at this point that renting their PVR is usually the least objectionable alternative. Hold your nose, empty your wallet, and follow the herd of cable consumers that abandoned DVD recorders years ago. Or, drop cable altogether and use an antenna for free off-air reception (if you get a passable signal). The Magnavox tuner is significantly more reliable with off-air than cable signals, although recent off-air signal changes have also caused occasional Mag tuner problems. Nice budget DVD/HDD recorders, those Mags, but their tuners are a hot mess.

[usually_quiet]

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/limited-basic-encryption/

Maybe your government (if you're in the US) has given them the nod to require that you assume the traditional position.

I don't think that is the case, if the TV can still tune clear QAM channels as stated in the original post. Also, if Comcast had done that, the OP should have been notified. The FCC requires cable providers to issue a warning in writing 30 days in advance, and they must ensure subscribers have the opportunity to get free DTAs if they need them http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cable-system-encryption

If the problem was caused by copy-protection flags. the recorder would most likely have displayed an error messge. Possibly it is a glitch in the QAM tuning. If the subchannels associated with a main channel number are not in a continuous sequence, the Magnavox recorders have known tuning issue. ...or it could be a signal strength issue, and the TV has a tuner capable of dealing with weaker signals..

[shadowstep]

Thanks for the replies. A friend of mine tried recording (with the same machine I have) on NBC for 12 hours and it quit after about 2 hours, came back on after a few minutes and after about 6 hours it quit again for the rest of the recording. At least now I know it's not my DVR that's causing the problem. By that I mean my DVR isn't any more defective than other Magnavox DVRs.

Orsetto, thanks for the info. Sounds logical to me. I did a little more research and the Magnavox DVRs have an ATSC tuner which means it will work on digital OTA channels but not necessarily on cable QAM channels. I thought an ATSC tuner and a QAM tuner were the same, but they are a bit different. FYI, we live in the mountains and there's no OTA TV signals available here.

Looks like the cci flag may not be the problem. I do wish there was software available to monitor it though.

I guess I will use an external QAM tuner which I already have for the Magnavox DVR. Problem with that is I will have to put the external tuner on the correct channel before the recording starts. Oh well, better than nothing.

Jman98, Comcast is the most incompetent company in the world, bar none.

[orsetto]

I did a little more research and the Magnavox DVRs have an ATSC tuner which means it will work on digital OTA channels but not necessarily on cable QAM channels. I thought an ATSC tuner and a QAM tuner were the same, but they are a bit different.

The Magnavox specs published from various sources are contradictory, but I can confirm for you that all the Magnavox tuners do indeed have both ATSC (off-air) and Clear QAM (cable) tuning bands. The problem arises from their poorly designed functionally split to handle analog cable tuning separately: the analog circuit has a tendency to bleed over and confuse bloody hell out of the digital QAM circuit every time the cable company messes with the signal (in Comcasts case, constantly). Another problem, which interacts with this first issue, is the Magnavox recorder tuners are unique in their total inability to comprehend the concept of "virtual" channel frequencies. Considering all cable systems (and an increasing number of OTA stations) use this "virtual frequency" technology, it really is astounding that these recorders leave the factory with no clue how to process such channels.

Why the hell Magnavox has stuck with this prototype-era ATSC/QAM design thru no less than four generations of the same recorder since 2007 is a mystery for the ages, considering the thousands of consumer returns they've had to absorb precisely because of it. The strangest aspect of the whole mess is that this mfr also makes televisions: and their televisions don't have the same problems! They use a proper, integrated tuner just like other TV and recorder brands.

In the long run, you would have encountered tuning problems with any DVD recorder (and your TV tuner) eventually. The cable industry has finally obtained permission to scramble every channel on their wire, which means Clear QAM (aka "boxless cable") is living on borrowed time anyway. Sooner or later, you'll need a decoder box of some kind (or ComCast PVR).

[shadowstep]

Interesting. I did hook up my external QAM tuner and it works fine so far. I've been all over the Internet and I never found anyone else familiar with the Magnavox DVRs. I have been using one of the Magnavox DVRs for several years. I think my first one was a remanufactured Phillips and then a 500 mb Magnavox and now the 1 terabyte model. I did have problems with the old Phillips on one channel and soon replaced it with the Magnavox. I made the mistake of buying a Magnavox Blu-ray. The remote for the DVR and the Blu-ray have several buttons that activate both units. Another DUMB mistake by Magnavox. The Magnavox Blu-ray is in my shed now. Didn't take me long to buy another brand Blu-ray player.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I will pass it along to my friend who also has a Magnavox DVR. He also had the misfortune of buying a Vizio TV and the tuner doesn't reset when rescanning channels. After the first scan, if the QAM channels are moved, there's no way the Vizio TV tuner can be reprogrammed. He's using an external QAM tuner; I would have bought another TV (NOT a Vizio!).