Anamorphics

[SamSlam023]

Recently I copied all my DVD's to my home media server for everyone to access. I have not compressed these as I have tons of space. I'm giving them out to a friend who does not have much space so I need to compress them. Whenever I compress a DVD using into a MKV the aspect ratio is all weird. When I play the uncompressed file the movie takes up the full screen (16:9) but when I convert using Strict Anamorphic it seems to be letterboxed (two black bars above and below). I have tried numerous settings but cannot achieve just normal 16:9.

I do not have a very good understanding of how Anamorphic works and cannot find an answer on how to correctly setup this. What settings do I use to get a 16:9 picture?

[Baldrick]

Many movies are wider than 16:9 so they should have black borders on a 16:9 display. But if they are in around 1.85:1 they should be in full screen. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)

Are you using handbrake?

[SamSlam023]

Yes, I am using Handbrake. The original files before conversion are 16:9 though. I even played the DVD directly and it was 16:9.

[Baldrick]

Does handbrake add any cropping after you loaded the dvd video_ts folder? It's under the picture tab. If so is the movie wider than 16:9.

See also https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/AnamorphicGuide

[SamSlam023]

I have it set to automatic cropping. When I change it to custom and set 0 cropping I get the same result. I am not sure what aspect ratio the movie is meant to be but when I play it from the disc it takes up my full screen (16:9)

[Baldrick]

I just want to be sure that the source is 16:9 full screen/~1.85:1.

You could try open the first 1GB vob file from the DVD with DGMPGDec. Do you see black borders?

If you see black borders you should get borders when you play it. If no borders then is handbrake doing something wrong.

[SamSlam023]

That program displays the vob file as 4:3...

[Baldrick]

No. It displays the storage pixels aspect ratio. Like 720x480 or 720x576.

[SamSlam023]

Sorry, I understand it has something to do with anamorphics but still don't quite understand how that works. The video is 720x576. Should have mentioned it is a PAL movie also.

[Baldrick]

I'ts not that simple. See http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/aspectratios.htm

If your DVD has 16:9 display aspect ratio, open the first 1GB vob file with mediainfo and check if it says 720x576 (16:9)
AND
It has big black borders when you view it in DGMPGDec

Then it's a 2.35:1 or wider movie and it SHOULD have black border on a 16:9 display.


You could of course crop your movie to 16:9 so it's always full screen....or zoom in your player.

[jagabo]

I do not have a very good understanding of how Anamorphic works

For DVD it's trivial: PAL DVD always uses a 720x576 frame size. There is a flag that tells the player whether to display the video as 4:3 or 16:9. Any content that doesn't match the display aspect ratio will have black borders to fill out the frame.

Tools like Handbrake typically remove the black borders and convert the remaining picture to "square pixel" where the relative frame dimensions are the same as the display aspect ratio. For example 720x306 for a 2.35:1 movie.

[Baldrick]

Apparently not that trivial...

[theewizard]

i have TWO questions
do you have YOUR 'TV' set 'ASPECT' or NORMAL
or do you have your TV on ZOOM

what are your DVD player settings, normal ? hi-def? letter box on-off ?

hand brake might be working just fine, but you are watching special settings on the TV, instead of movie 'correct' settings

[SamSlam023]

Firstly, MediaInfo says the files directly from the disc are 720*576. When I open the files from the disc in DGMPGDec it stays in square mode and I can't figure out how to maximize. I don't think I am using the correct settings...

Secondly, I am playing the DVD from my computer hooked up to average monitors with settings that I have not touched. Your comment made me play the disc with some different programs. VLC and WMC both played it at 16:9 but when I opened with MPC it was the same as what Handbrake spat out! I am starting to think this is how it is meant to look.

So now my question is, should I just convert it so it is letterboxed? Is this how the movie is MEANT to look? What is my best option here?

[Baldrick]

You aren't answering my questions.

Does it say 16:9 in mediainfo? All pal dvds are 720x576.
Do you see black borders in dgmpgdec. You shouldn't use it to play or anything. Just to check for borders.

If so it should have borders. You might have wrong settings in vlc and wmc.

Then convert it like handbrake suggest. If you want full screen just zoom with your player or tv.

[SamSlam023]

Sorry, MediaInfo says it is 2.40:1. When I open the file in DGMPGDec all I get is a still square window. I don't know how to check for borders using that program... Sorry for my immense stupidity.

If I use zoom will it basically put it back to how VLC and WMP played it? Or will it crop the 2.40:1 image to 16:9 cutting out some of the picture on each end?

Lastly, should I just leave the video in 2.40:1 while I am watching it on a 16:9 screen? Or do you think it would be better to zoom assuming it doesn't cut out any of the image?

[Baldrick]

I would leave it as 2.40:1. It should look like that.

[SamSlam023]

One last question. Kinda irrelevant but with the audio tracks, should I keep the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks? Or just the 5.1? If I choose 5.1 and play it through 2.0 speakers I assume it will be down mixed or something and have the same result as playing the 2.0 track. Or is it better to have both so the player can choose the correct track?

[jagabo]

When I open the file in DGMPGDec all I get is a still square window.

DGIndex always shows the video at is original dimensions. It does not scale the the indicated DAR. It cannot scale to full screen. This is so that you see the exact image that's in the file, pixel-for-pixel on your monitor.

I don't know how to check for borders using that program...

The question is: are there black borders within the 720x576 Window that DgIndex displays? Do you see something like this:



(That's an NTSC DVD so the frame size is 720x480 (3:2 aspect ratio) even though the final display aspect ratio of the DVD is 4:3.)

MediaInfo says it is 2.40:1.

It sounds to me like your DVD was prepared incorrectly. DVD can't normally have a 2.40:1 display aspect ratio, only 4:3 or 16:9. The only way to get 2:4.1 is to use a Sequence Display Extension. It sounds to me like the DVD should be flagged as 4:3 and uses a Sequence Display Extension to indicate that the 4:3 image is in the inner 540x576 sub-picture, making the the full 720x576 frame 16:9. But someone set the flag to 16:9 instead of 4:3. Many programs don't handle Sequence Display Extensions.

Note that VOB don't really stand alone. The IFO files can override the aspect ratio settings of the VOB files.

The question becomes what display aspect ratio gives a picture that doesn't look distorted? I'm not talking about the frame dimension but the actual content of the video. At what display aspect ratio are circles perfectly round? Do the actors not look too fat or skinny?

You should use DgIndex to Demux a short clip with something recognizable and upload it.

[theewizard]

you say TV and ordinary computer monitors

are you using a new HD 16:9 montior

you say it dispays in 16:9 with the full picture and NO black bars and NO distortion

not possible with a movie aspect 2.4:1

even on a hi-def display if not zoomed or in 'panoramic' distortion

it will only fill the width of the screen and have black bars top and bottom

ONLY made for TV video is true 16:9 or 4:3 or 5:4 (pal)

full width movies from film are always full width and less than full height

the only way to get full height is to chop the ends off, either when processing the dvd video or by zooming the display

[jagabo]

full width movies from film are always full width and less than full height

1.66:1 movies are usually pillarboxed in a 16:9 DVD. This has nothing to do with the OP's problem though.

[theewizard]

true, except he needs to understand the difference is display ratio 'DAR' and fixed frame resolution of 720*576

the frame size of the dvd images will always be the same, but the frame may contain black bars in the frame
and the display will be stretched across the TV display at the ratio specified in the DVD

he needs to realize that the movie frame that is twice as wide as it is tall, is electronically compressed intothe smaller frame and is stretch back to movie width/ratio when displayed by the DVD player

and we need too know exactly what monitor ratio he has and what his idea of 16:9 is

[SamSlam023]

The question is: are there black borders within the 720x576 Window that DgIndex displays?

Now I understand what Baldrick was asking. No, there are no borders above and below the image.

I am also using a 1920*1080 screen.

Also, just to make everything more confusing (or hopefully clear everything up) on the DVD cover itself it says it is 1.78:1

I think I will just trust handbrake and assume that what it spits out is how it is actually meant to be viewed.

[Baldrick]

Then it should be 16:9/1.78:1. Try disable the automatic cropping in handbrake. Set all 0.

Or try another converter for this dvd, like ripbot264, staxrip, https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/dvd-to-mp4-avc-h264

[jagabo]

I think I will just trust handbrake and assume that what it spits out is how it is actually meant to be viewed.

Why would you do that? LOOK at the shapes of things in the video, not the frame dimensions. Are they the correct shape? Do all the actors look fat at 2.4:1? Or do they look normal? Look at a car tire viewed directly from the size. Is it round or is it a wide oval?

GSpot can show you the flagged DAR and contents of the Sequence Display Extension (if any). DVDPatcher will allow you to change the flagged DAR if it's wrong.

I've never seen a commercial DVD with a 2.4:1 DAR (indirectly through a sequence display extension). Every one I've seen is encoded with a 16:9 DAR and black letterbox bars.

[Cornucopia]

Yes, as was mentioned before, 4:3 and 16:9 are the ONLY legit DARs in DVD, and for BD when in High Def 16:9 is the only legit DAR. All other original intended DARs must encode either by adding letterboxing/pillarboxing or by zooming/cropping/pan-scan. And of course, with the latter, the final DAR of the picture itself (not the bars) will no longer be what was intended.

I agree: LOOK at your image. Are squares SQUARE or RECTANGULAR? Are circles CIRCULAR or OVAL? Are people normal or FAT or SKINNY?

Scott

[theewizard]

VLC might be set to 'default' of fit window, and full screen
so when he opens the DVD on the PC he is NOT seeing what it really looks like
this has confused him to what he thinks it looks like

he should go to video and uncheck 'fit to window' and set aspect to 'default'
and in preferences change from open full size to open in minamum, which is normally the exact size DAR

height will be 576 pal and width what ever number of pixels needed for the DAR , 1024 ?