Is there a guide to DIY bulletproofing HDTV's?

[brassplyer]

Okay, so it seems that there's no such thing as a truly solidly built consumer HDTV. Is there a resource for "Screw the warranty, here's how to, for a modest investment in time and soldering, replace the cheap components in your budget HDTV and convert it from a POS to a tank that will last for years and years like CRT's used to"?

[Hoser Rob]

Did you try searching, say, "diy upgrading cheap hdtv components"?

I just did and I didn't seem to get much joy out of it. Frankly I doubt it'd often be just a matter of a cap or two. If they're only going to design it to last the warranty period I'm afraid that's just how it's going to be.

[jagabo]

My estimation is the odds are 50:50 the caps in the power supply are what's going to fail. There are lots of videos and web sites devoted to how to swap them out. If it's not the caps you can find used replacement boards (figuring out which board is bad is the hard part) via the internet. We did this recently and fixed our 46" LCD for about US$75.

Otherwise, 37" HDTVs (the size you mentioned in another post), running in the US$300 to US$500 range, are disposable. They'll cost more to fix than to buying a new one.

[brassplyer]

My estimation is the odds are 50:50 the caps in the power supply are what's going to fail. There are lots of videos and web sites devoted to how to swap them out. If it's not the caps you can find used replacement boards (figuring out which board is bad is the hard part) via the internet. We did this recently and fixed our 46" LCD for about US$75.

Otherwise, 37" HDTVs (the size you mentioned in another post), running in the US$300 to US$500 range, are disposable. They'll cost more to fix than to buying a new one.

Not going by the arithmetic I'm aware of. If you fixed your 46" for $75 and the same could be done with a $250 37" set, that would still be a bargain instead of replacing it.

And the idea isn't just to fix an immediate problem - in fact not even necessarily waiting for a problem to develop but to end up with a far more reliable set to begin with. Makes more sense than to buy yet another set with the same cheap parts as the first one.

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

[jagabo]

My estimation is the odds are 50:50 the caps in the power supply are what's going to fail. There are lots of videos and web sites devoted to how to swap them out. If it's not the caps you can find used replacement boards (figuring out which board is bad is the hard part) via the internet. We did this recently and fixed our 46" LCD for about US$75.

Otherwise, 37" HDTVs (the size you mentioned in another post), running in the US$300 to US$500 range, are disposable. They'll cost more to fix than to buying a new one.

Not going by the arithmetic I'm aware of. If you fixed your 46" for $75 and the same could be done with a $250 37" set, that would still be a bargain instead of replacing it.

Hence the "otherwise" in my post. If you can't fix it yourself and have to take it somewhere to be fixed you might as well buy a new one.

[brassplyer]

If a hobbyist can install better parts that are inexpensive even paying retail prices surely the manufacturer could do the same thing at a fraction of what the pieces cost a hobbyist. It makes me wonder what you're paying for in a high-priced set. Wouldn't their costs be far lower if, instead of mounting mega-dollar advertising/marketing campaigns to perpetuate a myth to the buying public about how high quality and reliable the sets are, they actually *made* them rock-solid reliable?

[Cornucopia]

Now you're asking marketing/sales types to have HONESTY, DEDICATION to the CUSTOMER, and FORESIGHT! That's not fair to them.

Scott

[brassplyer]

Now you're asking marketing/sales types to have HONESTY, DEDICATION to the CUSTOMER, and FORESIGHT! That's not fair to them.

Scott

What could I have been thinking.

[orsetto]

You're looking at a chicken-vs-egg scenario. One would think there would be a forum or site dedicated to this kind of DIY TV repair, and there might well be a few hidden somewhere, but in practical terms it just isn't workable. In the CRT days, nothing much really changed in the sets and you could apply similar repair principles across many model years and get away with substitute parts and seat-of-your-pants guesswork. Today, virtually none of the mfrs is completely responsible for every component of their TV line, outsourcing is rampant, models change twice a year, supplier allegiances change almost as often, and the technology evolves too rapidly to follow. By the time word gets out about a common failure point in a particular TV, and reliable repair advice is posted, that TV has been redesigned three times over, and an equivalent model with better features and PQ is on store shelves for 50% less than the problem set cost.

In the abstract, and on principle, yes: it is more desirable to DIY repair an otherwise-functional TV than trash it. On economic and environmental grounds, repair/upgrade is clearly preferable to the consumerist disposable system we've been forced into. But that's way easier said than done: these TVs are the pinnacle of ruthless Chinese mfrg efficiency, with little to no provision for repairs or upgrades. Talk to any owner of a pricey Samsung that died 6 months after purchase, and ask them about their repair experience: nightmare city. And Samsung is the 800lb gorilla, supplying components and designs to nearly every other TV brand: if Samsung has no clue how to fix their own sets, don't expect much from anyone else. Their association with Sony has nearly killed Sony altogether. Here and there, you'll find a specific value-brand Vizio or Dynex that lends itself to durability upgrades or easy repair, but again the brief availability of each individual model means its gone from stores by the time you hear about it. Your whole question is basically whack-a-mole on steroids.

If you fixed your 46" for $75 and the same could be done with a $250 37" set, that would still be a bargain instead of replacing it.

Not necessarily. There's no guarantee the DIY repair would cost only $75: if you need to replace a complete board due to IC issues it could easily run $125 or $200, and that's assuming you can source the part wholesale. The tipping point for a $300 TV would be about $150: beyond that, the value equation kinda cancels itself out. If it isn't an LED set, the backlight could tank a month after you replace the PSU or main board. Replacement backlights (if even available) cost more than an entire new TV. You also have to factor the constant evolution of the panels and drive circuits, they do improve and the improvements trickle down to the cheaper sets more with each passing year. You wind up chasing your tail trying to DIY upgrade them to any significant degree: sow's ear>silk purse ain't easy.

We live in a different paradigm now: my father used to spend his weekends happily tearing our cars down and building them up again. Today, no one does that: cars are infested with complex electronics that require a suite of calibration tools unavailable (and unwise) for use by the DIY enthusiast. It is what it is. Messing with the surface mount components of a TV board is not a joyride, and comes with no small risk.

And the idea isn't just to fix an immediate problem - in fact not even necessarily waiting for a problem to develop but to end up with a far more reliable set to begin with.

Not likely to happen, when the entire design of the TV is a kludge engineered to robotic mfr at an unrealistic low retail price point with a planned life expectancy of just a few years. You would need to be conversant with the complete design parameters of the set, know exactly where the weak points are, and be able to balance the upgrades against the original spec so nothing skews into an alternate breakdown path. This can be simple, or it can be extremely difficult: depends on the TV and the board layouts.

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

These are the equivalent of urban legends. For every person who fixed their TV with a $1.40 cap from Radio Shack, there are twenty others who fried their TV past the point of no return or were frustrated by multiple caps failing in a cascade or realized too late that any cap replacement was doomed due to a defective IC that can't be DIY repaired.

Do a number of people manage successful upgrades? Absolutely. But they tend to be owners of plasma TVs, not LCD, and they tend to be owners of beloved older models with a fiercely devoted following. The $250 value-brand LCD TV you buy today is usually feature-stripped, with minimal connection options beyond a couple of HDMI ports. They can be great for what they are, but repair/upgrade prospects are dubious. Random luck would play a very large part in whether custom beefed-up DIY upgrades are feasible.

[brassplyer]

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

These are the equivalent of urban legends.

How so? Urban legends are things that are untrue. This is true. A girl who's clearly no tech and doesn't know how to solder very well got her TV up and running again and video'd the process. Real world problem, real world fix that wasn't hampered by any of the "sets change too quick etc....all the reasons it won't work" elements you hypothesized. Personally, I probably would have popped a few more bucks and replaced ALL those identical, failure-prone caps.

A guy on another video I found said you should actually go to a higher voltage value with the same microfarad rating because the cap might have failed because it wasn't rated high enough.

For every person who fixed their TV with a $1.40 cap from Radio Shack, there are twenty others who fried their TV past the point of no return or were frustrated by multiple caps failing in a cascade or realized too late that any cap replacement was doomed due to a defective IC that can't be DIY repaired.

Maybe, sounds like you're speculating as to what the actual stats are - can you provide any kind of stats on "hobbyists who screwed up on repairing their HDTV"? - and also envisioning a worst case scenario as the most likely one.

Do a number of people manage successful upgrades? Absolutely.

I believe this is probably true which is the motivation for my post. It seems reasonable to me that someone who's willing to do some research, self-education and even some practice on the techniques involved - find a junk board and practice soldering and unsoldering pieces - is going to have a much higher likelihood of success than someone who doesn't do their homework or is congenitally too clumsy to develop the skills.

Clearly it wouldn't be for everyone - it would be for those who are interested in and willing to do it, which is going to be a smaller percentage of the buying public.

If there are certain sets that are id'd as being more conducive to DIY fortifying, I'd absolutely make a buying decision based on that.

[sanlyn]

If that gal can do it, so can you. Go out and buy that $175 60-inch cheapo special today. Keep on ruminating at this rate, and I'm surprised you aren't sitting at home listening to a 1946 Philco radio. Get ye to thy nearest Best Buy, go eeny-meeny-miny-moe, pay up, and take it home. (Don't lose the receipt).

[lordsmurf]

I've caught stuff on fire trying to DIY repair.
Tripped breakers.
Miniature explosions.

Other times, my patch job was perfect, and I revived favorite gear.

Much of what I've done I try to post online at various sites.

[fritzi93]

Good for the gal who fixed her TV by replacing a capacitor. She was lucky it was that simple.

My own experience makes for a sad tale. I had a 28" HANNS-G monitor that started getting twitchy about powering up, and eventually wouldn't start at all. Gotta be capacitors in the PS, right?

So I opened the case and a few capacitors in the PS were a little bulged. A little, not leaking . Oh well, that has to be it. I researched the parts, got good capacitors, a new soldering iron more suitable for fiddly electronics, and rehearsed what I was gonna do. Then did the job and put it all back together, well satisfied with myself.

Didn't fix the problem.

I gave it up as a hopeless job. After all the time I'd wasted, I wasn't about to start replacing parts willy-nilly. It was a shit monitor. Lesson learned.

[Hoser Rob]

...

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

These are the equivalent of urban legends. For every person who fixed their TV with a $1.40 cap from Radio Shack, there are twenty others who fried their TV past the point of no return or were frustrated by multiple caps failing in a cascade or realized too late that any cap replacement was doomed due to a defective IC that can't be DIY repaired...

He's quite right. People generally used to have enough sense to take electronic repairs to someone qualified to do it.

Of course, gear used to be designed in such a way that you could fix them. Especially tvs, which had at least a CRT tube and had to have some air space inside them. That at least gave you some room to fix them.

Modern gear is designed to only last so long and it's definitely not designed to be easily fixed even if you know what you're doing. And if you think repair is going to be just swapping caps you don't know what you're doing.

[brassplyer]

Didn't fix the problem.

I gave it up as a hopeless job. After all the time I'd wasted, I wasn't about to start replacing parts willy-nilly. It was a shit monitor. Lesson learned.

Did you do any further research? For the unit to power up A, B & C has to happen. You need to find out what that A, B & C is. At what point is the chain being interrupted. Is it impossible to test the PS to see if it's putting out what it should be putting out? If it's working then it's something further down the path.

No, replacing parts randomly isn't the answer but I wonder if with a little more effort you could have found and fixed the problem. You'll never know since you gave up fairly easily.

[brassplyer]

...

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

These are the equivalent of urban legends. For every person who fixed their TV with a $1.40 cap from Radio Shack, there are twenty others who fried their TV past the point of no return or were frustrated by multiple caps failing in a cascade or realized too late that any cap replacement was doomed due to a defective IC that can't be DIY repaired...

He's quite right. People generally used to have enough sense to take electronic repairs to someone qualified to do it.

~shrug~ As many other videos on YouTube attest, she's not the only one to fix a problem a lot less expensively than a -hopefully- qualified tech would have charged hundreds for.

[fritzi93]

Didn't fix the problem.

I gave it up as a hopeless job. After all the time I'd wasted, I wasn't about to start replacing parts willy-nilly. It was a shit monitor. Lesson learned.

Did you do any further research? For the unit to power up A, B & C has to happen. You need to find out what that A, B & C is. At what point is the chain being interrupted. Is it impossible to test the PS to see if it's putting out what it should be putting out? If it's working then it's something further down the path.

No, replacing parts randomly isn't the answer but I wonder if with a little more effort you could have found and fixed the problem. You'll never know since you gave up fairly easily.

Sure, but I forget the exact names of the parts now, it was more than a year ago. So it wouldn't have been truly random. I viewed a lot of videos and threads here and there, and some were about HANNS-G monitors. A couple about my model specifically. Though, guess what, their screenshots of power supply boards and other parts did not exactly match what I was seeing.

I also went through every damn connection and wire just to satisfy myself it wasn't a bad connection somewhere.

There was in particular one circuit board (one I can't remember the name of) separate from the PS. One guy said he replaced it and fixed the monitor. I looked it up and found a used one for a bit less than 100 bucks, IIRC. Had I gone for that, I would have had over a third of the original purchase price of the monitor (~ $450, Newegg special) in parts, soldering iron, etc, in trying to repair it and just gave it up as a bad bet.

Now, it's easy for someone to say you should have done this or that, but I put a helluva lot of time into it as it was. I can fix lots of things (retired general contractor). That bastard defeated me. I hated to admit it, since I'm used to successfully fixing things.

When other posters say *sometimes* it just ain't happening, believe them. I wonder if even a trained electronics repairman could have fixed that monitor without putting into it enough money to buy a new one.

You're being pretty damn obtuse and stubborn about this. I suggest you go right ahead. Have at it. And BTW, it's annoying for you to say I gave up "fairly easily".

[Hoser Rob]

...

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

http://youtu.be/vWKlex7kA7A

These are the equivalent of urban legends. For every person who fixed their TV with a $1.40 cap from Radio Shack, there are twenty others who fried their TV past the point of no return or were frustrated by multiple caps failing in a cascade or realized too late that any cap replacement was doomed due to a defective IC that can't be DIY repaired...

He's quite right. People generally used to have enough sense to take electronic repairs to someone qualified to do it.

~shrug~ As many other videos on YouTube attest, she's not the only one to fix a problem a lot less expensively than a -hopefully- qualified tech would have charged hundreds for.

As was hinted at before, the know-nothings who blew up their gear aren't likely to post their results on youtube.

Since when did youtube become a valid resource?

[olyteddy]

Since when did youtube become a valid resource?

Since WikiPedia first discussed Capacitor plague?

[4your:only]

~shrug~ As many other videos on YouTube attest, she's not the only one to fix a problem a lot less expensively than a -hopefully- qualified tech would have charged hundreds for.

First:

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

How did she locate the failing cap ? By trial and error ? So she wasted a lot of other caps, replacing working caps with new ones until she replaces the bad one. Everything for $1.40 ? She might have a TV specialist in the background for free. You´ll never see the complete story in the clips.

Fixing the Unit by replacing a cap is only possible, if
- there is a design flaw that kills a specific cap (even high quality caps with same specs), that means, for a permanent fix there is a replacement cap with higher voltage/tempature range needed or
- the manufacturer of the caps produced crap not matching the minimum specs given by the designer of the circuit layout.

If you don´t have exactly the same board with the same cap series (the TV manufacturer uses multiple psu manufacturers and sources) your are out of luck, because it does not apply to the different board layout and different components

And without the technical background you are not able to locate the problem, if the problem is one of the hundreds of IC´s resistors, coils, transistors on the signal boards or a failure of the controller CPU. A lot of the IC´s and Controllers you cannot buy or are specially programmed for that device, so often the only choice is to change the complete board.

If you can buy the spare part or get the same TV Model with a different failure for small money, your chance to fix it increases a lot. But every time you have to check, what does a new one with new warranty will cost compared to the spare parts you need.

[brassplyer]

Now, it's easy for someone to say you should have done this or that, but I put a helluva lot of time into it as it was. I can fix lots of things (retired general contractor). That bastard defeated me. I hated to admit it, since I'm used to successfully fixing things.

When other posters say *sometimes* it just ain't happening, believe them. I wonder if even a trained electronics repairman could have fixed that monitor without putting into it enough money to buy a new one.

My original inquiry wasn't looking for a guarantee that I'll be able to fix any tv that goes bad, just if there's a particularly good resource for DIY'ers to look. Right now it seems like getting info piecemeal from various random sites and blogs and YouTube videos is what's available. The girl fixed hers, another guy gave a more in-depth explanation including info such as putting in higher voltage caps, which I've seen repeated elsewhere.

I like working on things, but in part it's motivated by what I see as an emerging picture that there's NO tv being offered through the various retailers at ANY price that you can truly depend on to be rock-solid. What I've heard here is "well, some sort of maybe *tend* to be better..." My brother seemingly got lucky with his cheap-o Dynex, if he'd grabbed the one next to it maybe he might have had a different experience.

That being the case, it makes me ponder whether you might be better off getting a cheap one and just fix it yourself, if as it seems, the same components keep crapping out on many of them so while not guaranteed, odds are you *can* fix it yourself. All the while doing some self-education on electronics, repair techniques etc.

Sanlyn says he jerked around with one vendor for a year to get a warranty replacement on his set. That's crap. A year of aggravation and not having a properly working tv. Not worth it.

[brassplyer]

~shrug~ As many other videos on YouTube attest, she's not the only one to fix a problem a lot less expensively than a -hopefully- qualified tech would have charged hundreds for.

First:

This girl replaced one cap - albeit doing a bad job of soldering - and fixed hers for $1.40.

How did she locate the failing cap ? By trial and error ? So she wasted a lot of other caps, replacing working caps with new ones until she replaces the bad one.

She explained how she found it, the same way various others did in other similar videos on youtube and the same advice you'll find on electronics forums - found a cap that was visibly bulging.

I have to wonder if you or some of the other naysayers here are electronics repair guys po'd about people fixing things on their own, cheating them out of the opportunity to charge them out the nose - but of course won't offer any kind of substantial warranty on their work. I've run into that before on auto and plumbing forums - techs who are resentful toward DIY'ers.

If there had been a "secret tech" in the background, I suspect he would have made sure she did a better job of soldering.