alternative to premiere pro?

[sdvideohelp]

Hey guys,

I have a home movie on two dvds. Looks fine. Months ago, I wanted to edit the movie by adding transitions, removing stuff, and adding music. I used premiere pro but had several problems that all ended with the final product being grainy or low quality. So I gave up. I think at one point I realized that I needed to use a lossless program to rip the dvd and then work with those files in premiere pro. But the product still did not match the original.

Can you suggest a program that can do everything I want and make it look as good as original? If not can you suggest which programs to use at which stages (rip, delete, author, add music, burn to dvd)?

[aedipuss]

guess depends on what version of pp you have. it does smart rendering of mpeg-2 in recent ones so only the changes/transitions are re-encoded, everything else would be exactly like the original.

a couple others also do smart rendering of mpeg-2 - vegas and mpeg video wizard

but if you add something to the whole video they all will have to re-encode.

[sdvideohelp]

guess depends on what version of pp you have. it does smart rendering of mpeg-2 in recent ones so only the changes/transitions are re-encoded, everything else would be exactly like the original.

a couple others also do smart rendering of mpeg-2 - vegas and mpeg video wizard

but if you add something to the whole video they all will have to re-encode.

I have whatever was new last year.

Does adding audio tracks cause re encoding? Maybe I should do the editing in steps? Like deleting scenes first and then making sure the output quality is still good. Then adding transitions. Then adding music. Or a different order?

Are you saying, things should have worked fine with premiere pro for me?

[edDV]

guess depends on what version of pp you have. it does smart rendering of mpeg-2 in recent ones so only the changes/transitions are re-encoded, everything else would be exactly like the original.

a couple others also do smart rendering of mpeg-2 - vegas and mpeg video wizard

but if you add something to the whole video they all will have to re-encode.

I have whatever was new last year.

Does adding audio tracks cause re encoding? Maybe I should do the editing in steps? Like deleting scenes first and then making sure the output quality is still good. Then adding transitions. Then adding music. Or a different order?

Are you saying, things should have worked fine with premiere pro for me?

For "smart rendering" to work, the project and export formats must match the source format in every respect including bit rate. Describe in more detail your source "DVD" format. Use mediainfo.

[budwzr]

Have you tried the forum guides?

[poisondeathray]

Are you saying, things should have worked fine with premiere pro for me?

No, Premiere cannot smart render MPEG2 natively. You need a 3rd party plugin from Mainconcept

Vegas Pro can smart render MPEG2 natively

Smart rendering means only those few frames around cutsites and transitions are re-encoded , everything is passed through untouched . But applying something like a global filter, like color correction would require re-encoding whole thing

Adding in audio is a task for other programs, like multiplexing and re-authoring if you're going back to dvd. It doesn't require re-encoding, and there are illustrated user guides for this as suggested above

[budwzr]

So Premiere is what? A base program with pay-per-use options? For a GRAND shouldn't it be able to make a decent DVD file, fer krisakes?

[poisondeathray]

So Premiere is what? A base program with pay-per-use options?

Haha

That's one big plus that vegas has over premiere, but there are pros/cons to both programs

Now why don't you express how you *really feel* with an animated gif

[budwzr]

Hey buddy? I'm not ready yet, hahaha, I got sidetracked. I'm all freed up now. I need to cook up something good. Hey, when you see our devil, that's a tipoff that I'm up to no good, get it? That's the secret club insider emblem.

[poisondeathray]

Hey buddy? I'm not ready yet, hahaha, I got sidetracked. I'm all freed up now. I need to cook up something good. Hey, when you see our devil, that's a tipoff that I'm up to no good, get it? That's the secret club insider emblem.

The First Rule of Secret Insider Club is not to talk about Secret Insider Club

[budwzr]

Hey buddy? I'm not ready yet, hahaha, I got sidetracked. I'm all freed up now. I need to cook up something good. Hey, when you see our devil, that's a tipoff that I'm up to no good, get it? That's the secret club insider emblem.

The First Rule of Secret Insider Club is not to talk about Secret Insider Club

OK, check, no more about SiC, the Secret Insiders Club that's a secret, got it! Hehehehe.

[edDV]

guess depends on what version of pp you have. it does smart rendering of mpeg-2 in recent ones so only the changes/transitions are re-encoded, everything else would be exactly like the original.

a couple others also do smart rendering of mpeg-2 - vegas and mpeg video wizard

but if you add something to the whole video they all will have to re-encode.

I have whatever was new last year.

Does adding audio tracks cause re encoding? Maybe I should do the editing in steps? Like deleting scenes first and then making sure the output quality is still good. Then adding transitions. Then adding music. Or a different order?

Are you saying, things should have worked fine with premiere pro for me?

We still haven't had your confirmation that the source video was MPeg2. If the source had sufficient bit rate the re-encode results shouldn't be as bad as you suggest. I think there is something else going on.

In your initial post you didn't indicate the parameters used to encode the output or the purpose. Is this an interlace issue? Were you reducing bit rate? What was the codec? We have no useful information from you.

[sdvideohelp]

guess depends on what version of pp you have. it does smart rendering of mpeg-2 in recent ones so only the changes/transitions are re-encoded, everything else would be exactly like the original.

a couple others also do smart rendering of mpeg-2 - vegas and mpeg video wizard

but if you add something to the whole video they all will have to re-encode.

I have whatever was new last year.

Does adding audio tracks cause re encoding? Maybe I should do the editing in steps? Like deleting scenes first and then making sure the output quality is still good. Then adding transitions. Then adding music. Or a different order?

Are you saying, things should have worked fine with premiere pro for me?

We still haven't had your confirmation that the source video was MPeg2. If the source had sufficient bit rate the re-encode results shouldn't be as bad as you suggest. I think there is something else going on.

In your initial post you didn't indicate the parameters used to encode the output or the purpose. Is this an interlace issue? Were you reducing bit rate? What was the codec? We have no useful information from you.

Sorry about my lack of response to this thread. Been out of internet last couple of days and put this project on hold.

I looked more into this and this project is actually from 2010 (for some reason I thought it was late 2011 lol).

I also thought I was using premiere pro, but it is premiere elements 8.0.

Here is the media info for the OUTPUT file:

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 5.84 GiB
Duration : 2h 12mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 311 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 994 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.579
Stream size : 5.55 GiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -67ms
Stream size : 182 MiB (3%)

Menu

I'll get the info from the DVD later today and post back. In the meantime, does anything look wierd on the output file? I don't think I changed any advanced settings on premiere elements. Also should I try vegas or premiere pro or try premiere elements again?

[edDV]

I'll get the info from the DVD later today and post back. In the meantime, does anything look wierd on the output file? I don't think I changed any advanced settings on premiere elements. Also should I try vegas or premiere pro or try premiere elements again?

Two things.

Scan order : Bottom Field First

Was the camcorder DV format? If not this should probably be upper field first. Field reversal would show horizontal jitter during motion.

Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 994 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps

This is low average bit rate for home camcorder video. Recompression adds to loss.

Goal for DV camcorder video should be over 8 Mbps average bit rate for MPeg2 DVD(about 1 hr 15 minutes per single layer DVD). Better is to max video bit rate ~9.5 Mbps CBR (1 hour mode).

[sdvideohelp]

I'll get the info from the DVD later today and post back. In the meantime, does anything look wierd on the output file? I don't think I changed any advanced settings on premiere elements. Also should I try vegas or premiere pro or try premiere elements again?

Two things.

Scan order : Bottom Field First

Was the camcorder DV format? If not this should probably be upper field first. Field reversal would show horizontal jitter during motion.

Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 994 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps

This is low average bit rate for home camcorder video. Recompression adds to loss.

Goal for DV camcorder video should be over 8 Mbps average (about 1 hr 15 minutes per DVD). Better is to max video bit rate ~9.5 Mbps CBR (1 hour mode).

Thanks!

The orginal DVD came from a professional videographer. However, they were supposed to give me the in camera unedited video. Not sure what videocamera they used but it was big and I assume it was high quality?

I'll post back with the original DVD info. I'm hoping its like you said and has a higher bit rate then the output file I posted above.

[sdvideohelp]

Haven't been able to find the right original dvd. I found an older one, which should be similar. Here is the info:

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.BUP
Format : DVD Video
Format profile : Menu
File size : 12.0 KiB
Overall bit rate mode : Variable

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Bit rate mode : Variable
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Compression mode : Lossy

Text
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Bit depth : 2 bits

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.IFO
Format : DVD Video
Format profile : Menu
File size : 12.0 KiB
Overall bit rate mode : Variable

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Bit rate mode : Variable
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Compression mode : Lossy

Text
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Bit depth : 2 bits

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 36.0 KiB
Duration : 33ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 8 937 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Simple@Main
Format settings, BVOP : No
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 33ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Maximum bit rate : 9 800 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy

Text
ID : 189 (0xBD)-32 (0x20)
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Muxing mode : DVD-Video

Menu

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.BUP
Format : DVD Video
Format profile : Program
File size : 108 KiB
Duration : 2h 57mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 82 bps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Duration : 2h 57mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Compression mode : Lossy

Audio
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 2h 57mn
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy

Menu
Duration : 2h 57mn
00:00:00.000 : Chapter 1
00:06:03.000 : Chapter 2
00:11:45.000 : Chapter 3
00:17:45.500 : Chapter 4
00:23:28.500 : Chapter 5
00:29:21.000 : Chapter 6
00:35:16.500 : Chapter 7
00:41:33.000 : Chapter 8
00:47:22.000 : Chapter 9
00:53:15.500 : Chapter 10
00:59:04.500 : Chapter 11
01:04:56.000 : Chapter 12
01:10:48.500 : Chapter 13
01:16:38.000 : Chapter 14
01:22:50.500 : Chapter 15
01:28:59.500 : Chapter 16
01:34:49.000 : Chapter 17
01:40:38.500 : Chapter 18
01:46:28.000 : Chapter 19
01:52:21.000 : Chapter 20
01:58:13.500 : Chapter 21
02:04:05.000 : Chapter 22
02:09:59.000 : Chapter 23
02:15:46.000 : Chapter 24
02:21:47.000 : Chapter 25
02:27:02.500 : Chapter 26
02:33:50.000 : Chapter 27
02:39:01.000 : Chapter 28
02:44:13.500 : Chapter 29
02:49:21.500 : Chapter 30
02:56:07.500 : Chapter 31
List (Audio) : 0

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
Format : DVD Video
Format profile : Program
File size : 108 KiB
Duration : 2h 57mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 82 bps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Duration : 2h 57mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Compression mode : Lossy

Audio
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 2h 57mn
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy

Menu
Duration : 2h 57mn
00:00:00.000 : Chapter 1
00:06:03.000 : Chapter 2
00:11:45.000 : Chapter 3
00:17:45.500 : Chapter 4
00:23:28.500 : Chapter 5
00:29:21.000 : Chapter 6
00:35:16.500 : Chapter 7
00:41:33.000 : Chapter 8
00:47:22.000 : Chapter 9
00:53:15.500 : Chapter 10
00:59:04.500 : Chapter 11
01:04:56.000 : Chapter 12
01:10:48.500 : Chapter 13
01:16:38.000 : Chapter 14
01:22:50.500 : Chapter 15
01:28:59.500 : Chapter 16
01:34:49.000 : Chapter 17
01:40:38.500 : Chapter 18
01:46:28.000 : Chapter 19
01:52:21.000 : Chapter 20
01:58:13.500 : Chapter 21
02:04:05.000 : Chapter 22
02:09:59.000 : Chapter 23
02:15:46.000 : Chapter 24
02:21:47.000 : Chapter 25
02:27:02.500 : Chapter 26
02:33:50.000 : Chapter 27
02:39:01.000 : Chapter 28
02:44:13.500 : Chapter 29
02:49:21.500 : Chapter 30
02:56:07.500 : Chapter 31
List (Audio) : 0

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 39s 473ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 218 Mbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 39s 473ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 213 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 600 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 20.567
Stream size : 1 002 MiB (98%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 29s 812ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -66ms
Stream size : 932 KiB (0%)

Menu

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 13s 580ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 633 Mbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 13s 580ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 620 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 600 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 59.828
Stream size : 1 003 MiB (98%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 13s 580ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -86ms
Stream size : 424 KiB (0%)

Menu

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 32s 199ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 267 Mbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 32s 199ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 261 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 600 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 25.218
Stream size : 1 003 MiB (98%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 32s 199ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -135ms
Stream size : 1 006 KiB (0%)

Menu

General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 1mn 43s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 83.4 Mbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 1mn 43s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 81.5 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 600 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 7.864
Stream size : 1 000 MiB (98%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 1mn 24s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -156ms
Stream size : 2.57 MiB (0%)

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General
Complete name : E:\\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 307 MiB
Duration : 16s 997ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 152 Mbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 16s 450ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 148 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 600 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 14.314
Stream size : 291 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 16s 997ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -165ms
Stream size : 531 KiB (0%)

Menu