pondering the future of capitalism

[tigerwolf]

Now I've been doing warez and etc for quite some time. But I noticed with the internet and p2p, the growth of warez has become rather scary. I remember the day when you had to become friendly with the sysop of a bbs or know the right person, etc to get access to warez. Then when the internet came along you still had to know how to navigate things. You had to know what irc, ftp, newsgroups, etc were. Even then most users were limited to 56k and under speeds. Now with the growth of broadband and the abundance of file sharing and etc, warez has become a household name. Think of how many people you know that knows what an mp3 is and just download music without a second thought. First off it sort of takes the fun out of things, but when I was curious about the new 3rd edition of dungeons and dragons. I haven't played in a few years and a couple of friends were talking about it, I jumped on kazaa and what do you know, I can get the dmg, the phb, and various extra books in pdf format. Which ironically I think is great because I can actually thoroughly look at a book and see if its something I want to actually purchase, especially given that rpg is generally something nice to actually have a true, knock knock, book for. I use to view warez something that most people wouldn't really buy but if they got it for free would use, hence not actually affecting the economic system of capitalistic soceity, but more and more the concept that warez is wrong is disappearing and many people are starting to actually get the mindset that its just the natural order of things. I even see it here on the forum. People asking for movies and etc like its just your average normal thing, would you walk into a store with no money and just pick something up and walk out? Then why is it that such a concept has become acceptable on the internet. I can name the number of people that majority of their music comes from the internet. Alas, I fall into this group anymore. I use to boast that I had over 200 cd's of paid for music, before the internet came along. Now if you have a collection like that most people are like I could have gotten that off the net, etc.
Capitalism is based on supply and demand, so what is the outlook of things when the companies have to resort to raising the price. What of the warez groups, when music becomes $50 a cd or higher because they just aren't making sales, they'll start making their money person by person. If I can't get my money from the masses I'll get it from the one that is distributing it to the masses. THough I do have to say majority of mp3 you get from kazaa isn't really that great so it actually is beneficial to pay for the cd if you like the stuff. I actually do buy the music of bands that I enjoy and think are good. Okay Have a done a decent off the wall rant yet? Oh by the way, just as a point for those of you that have become tainted by the concept that it isn't stealing if you get it from the internet, wake up and smell the maple nut crunch.

that's all, I gotta go drop the kids off at granny and grandpa's now.

have a great day.

til all are one,
tw

[wert]

yes were cutting into somebodys profits, but the guy at the last music awards (forget name) is the president of (forget again) did a little speech on how were stealing money from the industry and how its takeing food out of his childrens mouths and.... THAT A..WHOLE is makeing over 2 mil a year (acording to howard sterns 3's). im not nocking anyone in the music biz but damn it i work a hell of a lot more hours a week then most of em and work harder then a lot of em and seem to make $0.01 to there every $1.00 for even the morons without music contracts or offices of there own. ive seported there pay rates long enough damn it.

[d4n13l]

It is just a shame that smaller companies get hurt most.

My views on the music industry are almost identical to this.

I dont think there is anything wrong with capitalism. However, that doesnt mean that it should be able to rip off consumers. I think that Liberalism has the right idea: Provide a regulatory mechanism to ensure that abuses of power towards both customers and employees carry severe penalties.

[therick]

alright, here's a little rant:

1. CDs are $15-18...
2. Record Companies are full of shit.
3. You are not hurting the artist with MP3s (most of the time)

I will continue to screw the record companies until the prices of CDs comes down. Period. There is no way anyone should have to shell out $20 for an album. Also, many artists that I like also encourage MP3s...precisely to f#$% the record companies. Also, there are only a few artists (ESPECIALLY out of the younger, popular artists) out there who have earnings based on how many records they sell. Many have bonuses for platinum, gold, etc...and let's face it, they get most of their money when the album is cut and released. So a lot of the time, MP3s hurt only one part of the business, the part with the highest profit margin this side of child labor...the record companies. And if I like something I will buy it...and there ARE some killer labels out there (see Lost Highway)...but most of the time they are out to screw everyone out of money, from us consumers to the artist. If I know that the artist gets a large part of the album sales (Bob Dylan, Neill Young, etc....) I buy the CD...but everything else I download.

[resnullius]

considering record companies loved the concept of cd's because it cost then a fair amount less than tapes, but have always sold them at higher prices, and considering a lot of sotware companies would sell a lot more copies of their softwares if they did'nt keep the prices so high... I don't feel too bad. I probably buy more cd's now than pre-napster, and statistically it's the same for alot of ppl. Records sales went up with napster and down once it was closed down... doesn't take a genuis to figure out what happened.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Why should I pay $15 for a cd when I only like 3 songs?The record companies need to wake up and sell their music on a per song basis.
If they spent a fraction of what they did in legal fees(Napster) they
could of set up legit web-sites.I for one would pay $1(US) per song
if I knew the artist would get a cut.

[Rich927]

Hmmm...seem to remember this topic a few weeks ago. Something about buying the Band's t shirts outside the concerts to support the artist and rip the cd's and give them away free. That guy selling t shirts probably ripping too. Band's make money not just on sales but usage fees. If it wasn't for those usage fees, a lot of artist woudn't make money. Go ahead and buy a T shirt if you think that money is going to the artist. Keep kidding yourself. Nothing is free except maybe air and if the Republicans could pass an Air tax, they will. Love this topic. Makes me want to be a commie.

[Bschuler]

I think warez in the past made the internet, and made everything better. Why else make a newer better product? Unless of course, you needed to keep making money because of warez trading ripping off your old version. So instead of sitting around counting your cash, you add some new features and release a better product. In the future, this trend will continue. Maybe games for the pc will become more scarce, but business products will never slow. So that takes care of software.

As far as music goes... You have to seperate the music industry from the recording artist. I think the music industry itself should die a horrible and painful death for what they've done to the consumer. But artist's need to be paid. I don't think cd prices will jump to $50 a cd. Instead, I think concert tickets will skyrocket and certain songs will only be played live. This way an artist can make his money and still promote himself via the internet or occassional free concert. The recording artist will be able to manage himself again. Prior to the recording industry, this is how musicians made money. Why not go back to that???

As far as video goes.. I think the movie studios will learn from the music industry and react quickly once dvd burners are in every home. I don't think any industry will ever forget the leason learned from the music industries failure to adopt to the internet age quickly enough. DVD's will die out and a new proprietary system will emerge in time.

[sarmadgilani]

The big companies are money-hungry and are practically robbing people at the stores... stealing isnt right, but what the recording giants are doing is even worse... capitalism doesnt work i think; theres too much emphasis on the individual making his own profit, and not at society as a whole. thats why ppl like RIAA dont care about anything except makin the big bucks.

[videoguy79]

My long-winded two cents:

1.) **** the record companies. They demand more and more money for a product that is getting worse and worse every year. Instead of Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, CSNY, The Beatles, we now are force fed "Baby, One More Time". An aluminium compact disc costs between 2-15 cents to master, depending the on quantity being pressed. So, instead of a CD full of great, complex music performed by skilled musicians (i.e. people who actually can play an instrument and read sheet music (OMG, what a concept)), we are supposed to pay 15 bucks for a CD full of computerized garbage performed by whiny, zit-faced teenagers. If you are N'Sync, MP3's might hurt you more than say, Pink Floyd, since millions upon million of Pink Floyd CD's/cassettes/LP's have already been sold and the money has already been made. Good new bands don't get exposure since they don't fit into the record companies' "formula". In addition, a good bands put out CD's full of great music, where crap bands only have one good song (if even) per CD. If I wanted 1 song, why would I buy a whole CD? For a good band, it is far easier to buy the CD than to download 15 shitty-quality mp3's (I prefer lossless compression over MP3 anyday). I am happy to pay 10 or 15 dollars for a quality CD full of music that I know I'll enjoy for years to come. In fact, the 1100 or so vinyl/CD albums I have amassed since 1982 are a testament to that (and I am a studied musician myself). The record companies have their formula. . .put out the cheapest/worst music possible for the highest price possible, use the media to get people to buy it, and rake in the ca$h. (Sort of reminds me of Micro$oft ). This same thing happened in the late 70's. Remember Disco? It became so widespread, so shitty that people got fed up with the lack of good, substantive music and caused record sales to drop by some 500,000 albums between 1979 and 1981. Plus, the record companies jacked the price of a LP to 8.98 and cut back on the number of 45's that were sold, forcing people to buy the whole LP. Copy protection will only ensure that their formula works even better. Lucky for me, copy protection usually only is applied to new releases, which I haven't bought since the mid-90's. In this vien, I feel it is perfectly acceptable to trade mp3's. It doesn't hurt the older, better bands (or indie bands) who have already made thier money, and maybe the recent drop in new record sales will alert the record companies to the fact that what they put out today is complete shit, and if they expect to make any money after all of today's teens hit twenty, they had better look for a different strategy. Case in point: 80% of the music I see on mp3 trading progs is stuff recorded between 1965-1995. . .there's plenty of full Pink Floyd CD's but not one N'Sync one.

The fact that people are trading mp3's of music that is different than what plays on the radio shows that most people yearn for something better, whether that be older legends or innovative new sounds. Viva la MP3!!

[Rich927]

I would like to know which Artists encourage MP3's. That Artist doesn't make a cent off that MP3. There is going to be a time when Artist will stop making songs and movies because there is no money in it. Yes the companies make money and some Artist don't get paid a lot. Studio time, Production and advertising cost money. Why is it the same CD cost $3.00-$10.00 more at Camelot, Sam Goody and Blockbuster as opposed to the price at a Wal Mart or K Mart? It's not just the big bad recording company making money. I am a trained, studied musician myself. Did recordings, travel and all that. Made a little money. Face it. Not everyone is gonna make it. There is so much trash out there now and all it does is pull the good stuff down. As for ripping music, it has been around since the Cassette. I feel it's ok for personal use but shoudn't be a free for all. Big Brother just shut down a Twainese site for charging $1.00 for downloads. I bet NONE OF THAT MONEY WENT TO THE ARTIST!!! Therefore CHEATING and STEALING the artist of his livelyhood. Those of you who want to really support the Artist, send them a few bucks for each rip you do. Don't send it to the company, send it direct to the Artist. Oh yea keep buying those TShirts. Bono needs a new Jet.

[therick]

Roger McGuinn, Don Henley, Elton John, etc. etc. those are only a few...it would take a while to get all the artists who say that MP3 is good for MUSIC...

Oh yeah, and don't rip Bono, he is one of the truest artists around today...U2 has made statements not only with their music, but also with a shitload of charity work...everybody from Bob Dylan to Johnny Cash loves Bono man...

the bottom line is there are very few people putting out good ENTIRE (10-15 songs) albums anymore...I personally blame radio...

[Rich927]

So funny to hear Elton supporting MP3. He's one of those who prosecutes anyone who copies his music or does not pay usage. Each time you rip a Beatles song, you're taking money away from Michael Jackson and Jackson doesn't like it. Bono, has good intentions. Read up on what third world countries think. Good article in Time lately.

[videoguy79]

I should point out another benefit of mp3 or any other compressed format, and that is portability. I don't download mp3's, since I have enough "real" music already and most of the online mp3's should like shit, nor do I upload ones I have made. I rip my own CD's to the mp3 format in order to listen to music on my PDA, a much better solution than lugging around a large CD player and discs. With a 512MB card I can store a couple CD's (more if I weren't so picky about sound quality). If CD's were to be digitally copy-protected, I and other users of portable music products would not be able to do this anymore. However, the thing that the music companies seem to have forgotten is that analog copying cannot be prevented; one could hold a microphone up to a speaker if they wanted the music bad enough. Thus I will continue to use MP3 as I see fit, regardless of the so-called illegalities of doing so or what Big Brother considers to be kosher (i.e. anything that kisses the asses of big business). I've spent over 5000 dollars on music; it's my decsion as to what I will do with it for personal use, not the government's nor the record companies'.

[solomon]

Hi. Here is my opinion.

I am a FIERCE supporter of capitalism. But I think companies, especially record companies, are not realizing something. What these companies are failing to realize is that they have to ADAPT to the changes in current technology. They were so busy bitching about people stealing their money that they didnt spend any time trying to develop a new business model, but a new model MUST and CAN be made. The entire system is going to go through some strange times over the next 50 -100 years when nanotechnology comes along and molecular assemblers can create any object or material from a program.