Properly preparing a VOB with pulldown for Vegas Pro 10.

[rcavanah]

Hey guys...

So, this is something I have struggled with for days. Every time I seem to find a solution, it seems like it doesn't work the second time I try it.

I'm working with VOB files from a standard DVD. I've tried renaming the VOB files to .MPG, joining them with VOB2MPG, and demuxing/remuxing with DGEncode and ImagoMuxer. I've tried both "forced film" and "honor pulldown flags" in DGEncode. I've tried using the "match media" button in Vegas to prepare the workspace. I've unchecked "Allow pulldown removal" in preferences. EDIT NOTE: When I say these things, I mean I've tried them each either way with the same result.

Every time I open it, though, Vegas plays the video very fast, and the audio (playing at normal speed) gets out of sync. This happens when it renders as well (back to MPEG for DVD), 23.976 Inserting 2-3 pulldown. It resets every time I playback from a different point, so it's not a permanent playback speed issue. Gspot says the videos are interlaced, with 3:2 pulldown (which, I'm told, explains why they don't appear interlaced on screen). NTSC, 23.976 pics/s, 29.970 frames/s, 59.940 fields/s. Matrix coefficients, if that matters, says SMPTE 170M Standard.

What do I have to do to get these videos into an editable format, with as little loss as possible? Is it possible that I'm just setting the properties wrong, such as the interlacing? And THEN, when I go to render, what should my settings be like? 23.976 inserting 2-3, progressive or interlaced, etc?

[poisondeathray]

DGIndex only works with avisynth, so if you used forced film and used the .d2v file with MPEG2Source. But vegas doesn't accept avisynth natively , you need to frameserve through something like AVFS , or encode to an intermediate, maybe something lossless like lagarith, huffyuv, or minimally lossy like cineform

Vegas cannot remove hard pulldown at all (24p content encoded as interlaced 60i) - so you have to edit it on a 60i timeline (bad, transitions and cuts can cause cadence breaks) , and it can have problems with soft pulldown (yours sounds like soft)

I've seen this before in vegas on retail DVD's, there were some examples on this board as well with the exact same speed issue. It's a problem with vegas' mpeg2 splitter, and the same DVD source works fine in premiere

If you want to "fix" this for vegas I would use another format and remove the pulldown and use uncompressed audio . So to vegas, it looks like a 24p stream instead of a 60i 2:3 soft pulldown stream. I would use avisynth, DGindex, IVTC and a lossless intermediate (big filesizes)

So you would use a 23.976 IVTC timeline settings, and when you render out, you use DVD Architect 24p NTSC settings - this will render out a 24p MPEG2 DVD file with soft pulldown


PS you should have continued in this thread
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/338670-VOB-files-too-fast-out-of-sync-in-Vegas-Pro-10?p=2104777

[rcavanah]

Ahhh, thank you. It feels good just to know I'm not crazy.

So Premiere handles it better? My wife has CS3, so I honestly may just jump ship before I get too far down in the Vegas muck. I started out with it, because it was great for editing my own stuff, but for this project it seems to suck.

[poisondeathray]

So Premiere handles it better? My wife has CS3, so I honestly may just jump ship before I get too far down in the Vegas muck. I started out with it, because it was great for editing my own stuff, but for this project it seems to suck.

It did for those examples, and I think it was CS4 at the time, but it's definitely worth a shot on your end if you have access to premiere

Note this doesn't always happen in vegas, but when it does it's a PITA

It's really too bad, because vegas actually smart renders MPEG2 if you set it up correctly, but premiere does not without 3rd party plugins (smart render means only effects and transitions are re-encoded along with the few frames along a cutsite if within a GOP, everything else is passed through untouched, original quality) .

So if you can try some other tricks/things to get it working using vegas it would be ideal

[rcavanah]

Grrr, see, that's what I hate. Either convert the VOBs to something lossless for Vegas, ultimately having to re-render... Or drag them straight into Premiere and have to re-render anyway.

So, what about using something like Avisynth to remove the pulldown? Will the frames get out of whack after the removal and subsequent finished render?

[poisondeathray]

Grrr, see, that's what I hate. Either convert the VOBs to something lossless for Vegas, ultimately having to re-render... Or drag them straight into Premiere and have to re-render anyway.

Yeah that's basically it

Or try to fiddle with it like one of the options in the other thread, like re-wrapping using a different multiplexer like ffmpeg . If you can get it to work natively, that's the best option because of vegas smart render (unless you're planning something like color correction , where every frame needs to be re-rendered anyways) . But getting vegas to "smart render" can sometimes be tricky. Every setting has to match perfectly

If you want to upload a sample, I can have a look at it maybe suggest some other options . But from what you've said in this thread and the other, it really sounds like the identical problem

So, what about using something like Avisynth to remove the pulldown? Will the frames get out of whack after the removal and subsequent finished render?

No, everything will work with the avisynth method. In fact that's what I did with the same problem (this was before I was aware the premiere decoded it properly)

[rcavanah]

Or try to fiddle with it like one of the options in the other thread, like re-wrapping using a different multiplexer like ffmpeg .

Yeah, I tried rewriting the index with restream, which worked on one test run but for some reason it just won't do it any more. I may try the transport stream method again though.

No, everything will work with the avisynth method. In fact that's what I did with the same problem (this was before I was aware the premiere decoded it properly)

Hmm, OK. If that will enable a smart render, then that seems ideal. I think I have it figured out, but any tips are appreciated!

[poisondeathray]

No, everything will work with the avisynth method. In fact that's what I did with the same problem (this was before I was aware the premiere decoded it properly)

Hmm, OK. If that will enable a smart render, then that seems ideal. I think I have it figured out, but any tips are appreciated!

No, you misunderstand: Avisynth will frameserve uncompressed video and audio, so you cannot smart render.
In order to smart render MPEG2, vegas has to "see" MPEG2 as the input . You will know it's working when the screen says something like "smart rendering: no recompression required" and it goes by super fast instead of taking time to re-encode

But I am quite confident using avisynth method will fix your sync and speed issues , and if it is the same problem, then using premiere should as well - both these require re-rendering (unless you have the mainconcept mpeg plugin for premiere)

[rcavanah]

Ahh, OK. I see.

And, continually, every time I try something new as far as re-wrapping the file as something else, or any demux/remux combination, I have to tweak some crucial thing that I know will ultimately prevent a smart render. So it seems at this rate it'll be easiest just to work in Premiere. But thanks for all the info... Even for all the stuff I'm stuck with and unable to do, it helps just knowing for sure that it won't work.

[rcavanah]

One more question...

Say I were to have acquired the mainconcept plugin. What settings would I be using for source and render to get smart rendering to work? It doesn't seem to.

[poisondeathray]

One more question...

Say I were to have acquired the mainconcept plugin. What settings would I be using for source and render to get smart rendering to work? It doesn't seem to.

I don't have the plugin for premiere, so I don't know...but I have heard of people using it successfully.

Maybe send off an email to mainconcept support ? or start a new topic ?