Need to "chop" my 16:9 avi video down to 4:3

[magic612]

I know, I know - WHY would I want to do that? Well, I don't. But the videos I make come off of my Canon Vixia HD camcorder, which records in 16:9 format. But my local cable access provider, when I send them that video, doesn't automatically "letterbox" it or chop off the sides. It "squishes" the video. So the only way for me to not look like I've lost 40 pounds (and I'm already a slender guy as it is - I need the camera to ADD 10 pounds!), is for me to reformat the 16:9 videos myself to 4:3 format.

And I can't just do a simple letter box with black bars on the sides either - because that effectively leaves it at 16:9 with black borders on the left and right, and still "squishes" everything in the middle. I literally need to "chop off" the outer sections off the left and right sides to make it an effectively 4:3 format (kinda like using the "crop" tool in Photoshop, except for video). This is not a problem for the actual video footage, as I've already accounted for this in my shots. Lopping off the sides will just cause me to lose video that I planned on losing anyway.

I found one program, called AVCHD Video Converter by IOrgSoft (which I hurriedly bought last month to get SOMETHING closer to what I needed) that "sort of" manages this better. But it's still not very good - I've tried every possible configuration, and set the borders at various widths, and I still look "squished" no matter what I do. Does anyone know of any other programs that will do what I need? Obviously "free" and/or "open source no-cost" software is ideal, but I'm willing to pay for a $20 or $30 program if it will actually do what I need correctly and consistently. Oh, and if it helps, I'm just using Windows Movie Maker to edit my video, so I don't have anything very fancy for editing.

Thanks in advance, all thoughts and help appreciated. Sorry this is in the "Newbie" section, but since I'm a "newb" to the forum and wasn't sure what sub-forum to put it in, I started here given that that is encouraged in this subforum's description.

[usually_quiet]

Adding black bars on the side is called "pillar-boxing". Adding them to the top and bottom is "letter-boxing". Chopping off a bit from the from either side is called "cropping" or sometimes "pan-and-scan".

You have 2 choices to change the aspect ratio to 4:3, add black bars at the top and bottom, or remove a little from each side. Which do you prefer? Also, what video and audio codecs and resolution does the local access channel require for the material you send them?

[magic612]

Adding black bars on the side is called "pillar-boxing". Adding them to the top and bottom is "letter-boxing". Chopping off a bit from the from either side is called "cropping" or sometimes "pan-and-scan".

Thanks for that, and my apologies for the incorrect terminology.

You have 2 choices to change the aspect ratio to 4:3, add black bars at the top and bottom, or remove a little from each side. Which do you prefer? Also, what video and audio codecs and resolution does the local access channel require for the material you send them?

As I mentioned previously, I wish to crop the sides of the video similar to how one would crop the sides of a photo in Photoshop. To clarify, I need to completely remove that video from the final product - no black bars or pillars, no extra width whatsoever. The aspect ratio needs to ultimately wind up at 4:3.

My local cable access station prefers MPEG-2 files (both video and audio, which the IOrgSoft software allows me to choose). They have not specified a resolution requirement, but I have been forced (unfortunately) to reduce my AVCHD files to 720x405 AVI files to edit them in WMM, and my station has not had an issue with that.

EDIT: If need be, the actual format doesn't matter, as I can change that using the software I already have. So if I can edit it in AVI, I can still change it to MPEG-2 with any issues. It's more a matter of getting the sides "chopped off" and cropped that is the largest concern.

[DB83]

Are you saying that if you send a video to the tv station that has not been edited in any way that it is 'squashed' ?

Now I will confess that I know little to nothing about AVCHD yet I would still expect a flag to be present in the video to guarantee correct playback even though 1920*1080 is 16:9 arithmetically.

But now considering your edit process, you are reducing the video in direct proportion. But when you export it from WMM surely it is now 720*480 and that in itself would 'squash' it. And if you do not set a 16:9 flag on the export then I suspect it would be even worse. For 16:9 the export would AFAIK have to be 720*360.

I do wonder if WMM is really the best tool for the job. From what I read in these forums AVCHD is not very easy to handle so someone should come on here an recommend a better editor.

[netmask56]

All you need to do is import your file (maybe first converting to MPEG2) into say virtualdub and use the crop tool to cut off the sides to make a 4:3 version - or you could download the trial version of Womble (fully functional for 30 days) and add the crop tool and snip off the sides. The term is crop and you final project needs to be set as a 4:3 project.

If you use VirtualDub make sure you pick a suitable compressing codec otherwise the default is uncompressed avi and the resulting file will be possibly 100's of G's

Also TMPGEnc has a cropping tool

[magic612]

Are you saying that if you send a video to the tv station that has not been edited in any way that it is 'squashed' ?

Yes. They do not have any means to handle a 16:9 format where it simply leaves the left/right portions off the feed; it instead "squashes" everything together.

But now considering your edit process, you are reducing the video in direct proportion. But when you export it from WMM surely it is now 720*480 and that in itself would 'squash' it. And if you do not set a 16:9 flag on the export then I suspect it would be even worse. For 16:9 the export would AFAIK have to be 720*360.

When I convert from AVCHD to AVI, it is set to remain at 16:9. It looks fine in raw form. It looks fine in WMM. I have WMM set to edit in 16:9, since I do also upload these videos to YouTube, and they remain in the 16:9 format there. They therefore look fine when I export them out of WMM into an AVI format (whether that's 720x480, I'm not sure, but there doesn't seem to be any "squishing" present when I view that video in Windows Media Player). It only looks "wrong" after I've chopped/cropped that 'finalized' WMM avi file using the IOrgSoft software. So I simply need a way to crop them to 4:3 format for local cable access.

I do wonder if WMM is really the best tool for the job. From what I read in these forums AVCHD is not very easy to handle so someone should come on here an recommend a better editor.

Well, yes, I'd like to buy a different editing software package at some point too, so that I can use the raw AVCHD files. But there are multiple problems with that: One, I have already spent quite a bit on a camera, microphone, lighting equipment, etc. I really don't want to spend another $80 - $100 minimum on a decent software package to ONLY change my aspect ratio. Furthermore, if I do get new editing software, I'm going to get one that can use the raw AVCHD video instead of having to convert it to AVI (as I am now for WMM), and the problem with that is I would need a FAR more powerful computer than any of the ones I presently own, since AVCHD files really need a dual or quad core processor computer. At that point, it's getting rather expensive to simply "crop" the darn video.

So I'd like to find a 'free' or 'low cost' way to crop the final AVI video. Surely something out there exists that can do such a simple task?

[netmask56]

Another slightly round about way to do it but far more user friendly as you can see exactly what the final result will be is to use VSO ConvertXtoDVD load your file and go to resize section and select 4:3 and pan and scan. You can then make the DVD format to your hard drive and then join up the VOB files - convert them to MPEG2 (just change the suffix to mpg will do) and upload a MPEG2 4:3 version of your program.

[DB83]

Of course I am not suggesting that you go out and buy an bespoke editor just to change your aspect ratio but you need something to provide a video in a form that the tv station can accept.

I think the first stage is to enquire what exactly the tv station will accept. 'Mpeg2' is quite a wide definition. It certainly does not seem to like HD footage. Does the tv station actually transmit in HD ? I think not so what it then does is rescale the video just as you do to 720*405 and then stretch it back to 720*480 which is why you have suddenly lost some weight.

[INFRATOM]

What model Vixia do you have, I have a Canon Vixia HD S21 and you can do all that inside the camera. Footage can be converted to SD internally. It is a bit hard to find the controls need to check the manual. It has to be connected to power to see those options.

[magic612]

First let me say, thank you for all of the suggestions.

Some thoughts:

All you need to do is import your file (maybe first converting to MPEG2) into say virtualdub and use the crop tool to cut off the sides to make a 4:3 version

I did find and try VirtualDub previously; had a heck of a time figuring out how to get it to do anything I wanted it to. I do recall making an enormous file, so I would need some guidance as to what compression I should use. However, I still had difficulty choosing the correct settings to crop the video. I recall not being able to actually determine what settings I needed to use to chop it from 16:9 to 4:3.

or you could download the trial version of Womble (fully functional for 30 days) and add the crop tool and snip off the sides. The term is crop and you final project needs to be set as a 4:3 project.

I'm not sure what I should choose from that site; there seem to be a number of different software options there, and I see one costing $179. That's a bit pricey - am I missing what you're suggesting?

Also TMPGEnc has a cropping tool

Bit more than I'd like, but if that's the best option, I'll consider it.

Another slightly round about way to do it but far more user friendly as you can see exactly what the final result will be is to use VSO ConvertXtoDVD load your file and go to resize section and select 4:3 and pan and scan. You can then make the DVD format to your hard drive and then join up the VOB files - convert them to MPEG2 (just change the suffix to mpg will do) and upload a MPEG2 4:3 version of your program.

Sounds like a good option, but at $50, it's well above where I'd like to be pricewise.

[magic612]

Of course I am not suggesting that you go out and buy an bespoke editor just to change your aspect ratio but you need something to provide a video in a form that the tv station can accept.

As I have stated previously, I already can using the MPEG-2 broadcast quality format that the IOrgSoft software provides.

I think the first stage is to enquire what exactly the tv station will accept.

There is no need; they can accept the MPEG-2's I provide them with now. If I can crop the video in AVI, I can easily convert it to the MPEG-2 I need using the IOrgSoft software. I've mentioned this already.

'Mpeg2' is quite a wide definition. It certainly does not seem to like HD footage. Does the tv station actually transmit in HD ? I think not so what it then does is rescale the video just as you do to 720*405 and then stretch it back to 720*480 which is why you have suddenly lost some weight.

No, they do not transmit in HD, hence the reasoning for needing to crop.

[magic612]

What model Vixia do you have, I have a Canon Vixia HD S21 and you can do all that inside the camera. Footage can be converted to SD internally. It is a bit hard to find the controls need to check the manual. It has to be connected to power to see those options.

It's the HF-100 model. I tried looking all through the manual to see if I could even shoot or edit in 4:3 mode; there does not seem to be any option for that (plugged in or not). Unless someone can point me to where I'm missing something....

[M Bruner]

I looked in your manual and it says when you select the FXP mode you're shooting in 1920 x 1080 (16:9) format. Any of your other modes are shot in 1440 x 1080 (4:3) format (bottom of page 36).

[magic612]

I looked in your manual and it says when you select the FXP mode you're shooting in 1920 x 1080 (16:9) format. Any of your other modes are shot in 1440 x 1080 (4:3) format (bottom of page 36).

I see where it says that in the manual now, but perhaps someone could inform my camera that that is how it is supposed to behave, because I have shot video in every mode, and whenever I upload it to a computer, it still renders in a 16:9 format. My last video I shot in the XP+ mode, and it's 16:9.

It will take pictures in the 4:3 format. But I can't seem to get it to take video in that format.

[usually_quiet]

Instead of ConvertXtoDVD, you could try FAVC, a free program that converts many different video formats, including .wmv files to MPEG-2 and authors to DVD. I've used it to do something similar to what you want to do, but with a 1080i MPEG-2 TV recording. I was able to remove unwanted pillarbars from the sides using avisyth's crop filter (in the Advanced Scripting tab), and then encode to DVD-complaint 720x480 MPEG-2 video using HCEnc. It creates the files for a playable DVD, not a simple .mpg file. Joining and repackaging the the .VOB files in a .mpg container is a easy using the free program VOB2MPG.

[Edit]On second thought, AVStoDVD (also free) is probably a better program than FAVC, although the user interface is a bit more complex.

[DB83]

I have nothing against free software - use quite a bit of it myself - and the learning curve with commercial stuff can be just as steep.

Yet, over here, we have an expression "Why spoil the ship for an 'apeth of tar" which roughly translates to 'if you have invested serious money in equipment you should equally invest in bespoke software'

The software need not be expensive and for < $100 you can pick up a HD suite of Vegas which should be able to do all you want and without a whole lot extra steps.

Now your footage is 1920*1080. Want to keep that intact, edit it and export it to SD broadcast quality either in 16:9 or 4:3 ?. Vegas can do this. You should be able to directly import your footage as is so no need to convert it, resize it etc every step of which reduces the quality of the material. IIRC Vegas has a demo version so you can try it so it will cost you nothing if it does not do the job.

I could not find any sample 1920*1080 footage. BUt I found some 1440*1080(wmv) and threw that at vegas. Simply then rendered that at (my default) 720*576 both at 4:3 and 16:9.. Examples are as below and you should see that the original aspect ratio is retained with letter-boxing to fill in the frame. The 16:9 is more effective. Both of these a fully dvd-compliant so should be acceptable by the tv station. If not then there is something seriously wrong at their side.

I would add that I also threw the same source file at WMM. That also did some letter-boxing but the aspect-ratio of the original was NOT maintained.

Croppring your video to 4:3 without letter-boxing will result in so much picture loss 1920 >> 720 you may not even recognise yourself.