CCE ES Stream Fix?

[homerpez]

Hi again,

I've run across the Cinemacraft Encoder's "ES" stream bug. When you multiplex, your filesize will balloon from whatever is shows (like 777MB) to well over 100MB over that when you go to burn it! It's not a myth!

To make a long story short... DON'T USE IT!!! ENCODE TO "PS" STREAM IN CCE!!!

Anyway, my question. Is there any way to fix this, without a full re-encode?

Like a fool, once I encoded, and multiplexed with audio, and played it though on my PC, I deleted the source video to save space on my HD. So Re-encoding isn't an option... is there any way here to make it a valid stream? Am I alone here?...

Thanks in advance...

[disturbed1]

If your mpv file is 777, that contains video only. To multiplex is to combine the audio and video into a program stream.

CCE can not export a program stream, unless you use it to encode audio too.

Once again, an ES (elementary stream) is video only. PS (program stream) a multiplexed audio and video stream combined.

Multiplexing audio and video together will result in a file the size of the audio stream plus the video stream.

This is explained on page 28 of the owners manual.

[homerpez]

Sorry, guess I didn't explain...

I only tried encoding the VIDEO ONLy with CCE, therefore I thought I was okay doing an ES stream. Well, no luck there.

What I have now is a completed "PS" Video/Audio stream (I encoded audio with TMPGEnc, then multiplexed the two with bbMPEG). The resulting file was my 777MB MPEG (which plays okay on my computer, and in synch).

What I was wondering is is there some way I can demux the video again, and is there something I can run it though to make it a valid video stream again (since CCE has problems). That is, one that won't do weird things when I go to burn it?

This is without re-encoding... could I maybe make a "PS" in TMPGEnc? then demux? then remux?

I've never run across this before...

[disturbed1]

I'm still lost on what the problem is that your having with CCE.

Your file (complete with audio and video right? ) was 777?

When you put into your burning app, without you doing anything else, it grew 100mb

I've never came across something like that. If you could, describe what is you did, maybe together we can squish this thing.

You can demux with TMPG.

[homerpez]

There is supposed to be some trouble with CCE doing video-only streams (in ES mode), everyone always assumed this would mean a problem playing the movie!

But I think it has more to do with how the file structure is layed out...

It happened just like I said... I take a mux'ed Video/Audio file (777MB total) and when NERO does through the conversion-to-DAT process, the file size balloons, and it brings up an error.

I guess I'll need to run across someone this has happened to before, or I'll have to do some experimentation...

The MUST be a way to remove CCE's flagging (or something) to make it work right, without a re-encode...

{sigh}...

Thanks

[disturbed1]

I use CCE only to encode my SVCD & VCD

CCE video
CDEX audio
bbMpeg mux
VCDImager

Never have I seen that problem with 229, 250, or 262, ES every time. If your using a patched version, it could be a bad patch

Or It could be Nero, I'd try VCDImager, or I-Author. Neither of those two have given me problems. But Nero is known for it's bugs.

[homerpez]

Oh, then you'll love this one...

When I demultiplex this file using TMPGEnc (simple De-Multiplex), the video comes out to 659MB (or something, it sounds about right)...

Now I go into "Multiplex" (not simple), and select the video stream only, and make and MPEG movie without the audio track. The result? 1.90 GB!!!! THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO CHANGE!!!!!

I'm trying out a new theory (though I have deleted the source video in disgust)...

When I multiplexed in bbMPEG, it would bring up all sorts of errors when I selected "By AVG" bitrate (something about underflow or overflow). When I selected "By MAX" bitrate, everything worked just fine (it's VBR, by the way). I think I need guidance with bbMPEG, since theer are few real tutorials with detail on it...

My my guess is that somehow, TMPGEnc (and/or NERO and/or bbMPEG) thinks that the bitrate for the WHOLE file is 2500K/sec! (this was only my MAX bitrate). Or, at least this is confusing them... I know for sure that in the "Multiplex" window, TMPGEnc displayed the video stream's bitrate as 2500/sec, instead of 900k or so AVG.

Is this a sound theory? Or maybe I should just get a sample of how you do yours... maybe I can try again?...

[Truman]

homerpez, when you multiplex with TMPG, do you choose type: MPEG-2 Progamm or MPEG-2 SVCD (VBR)?

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-24 14:47:03, homerpez wrote:
Or maybe I should just get a sample of how you do yours... maybe I can try again?...
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course everyone has *their* way. I don't claim it's perfect, but I've haven't had any problems using this way.
I've played my discs on Apex models 500a, 500b, 660, and 703. All functions work (ff/rw). So pick and choose what you like

Rip - nothing special here

DVD2AVI - forced film, leave audio @ 48, color space is yuv

VFAPI - .d2v file to .avi

CCE 2.62(light) - drag n drop avi, CBR @ 1850 (results in
~2100 avg, ~2400 max), half horizontal resolution checked (results in a 352x480 aka CVD Chai-ji < search @ google for info) speed .84 - .92

CDEX - .wav 2 .mp2 192kbs w/normalization

Pulldown.exe - to add the needed 2:3 flags for 29.97 playback

bbMpeg - mux as SVCD, I don't change the mux rate 'cuz my files are with in spec. Cut for max file size ~730mb (74min CDR)
------------------------
2 choices here

1. VCDImager - pretty standard here (if you need a GUI, they work great too). CDRWIN to burn.

2. I-Author - use mpgXmps to convert mpg to I-Author mps. I-Author puts out .cif (EZCD creator), convert with CDMAGE to BIN/CUE, burn w/CDRWIN.

If I use VCDImager my Rip to 2 cds burnt time is ~3.25 hours
Using I-Author adds ~ 30 minutes (mpgXmps, and CDMAGE).

I'm very sastified with the quality.

[homerpez]

Thanks for the tutorial... but mine's MPEG-1, NOT MPEG-2.

My encodes are VCD specs, except for audio bitrate, and I used multipass VBR.

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
My my guess is that somehow, TMPGEnc (and/or NERO and/or bbMPEG) thinks that the bitrate for the WHOLE file is 2500K/sec! (this was only my MAX bitrate). Or, at least this is confusing them... I know for sure that in the "Multiplex" window, TMPGEnc displayed the video stream's bitrate as 2500/sec, instead of 900k or so AVG.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
That was said first.
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-24 16:17:59, homerpez wrote:
Thanks for the tutorial... but mine's MPEG-1, NOT MPEG-2.

My encodes are VCD specs, except for audio bitrate, and I used multipass VBR.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

That was said second.

I think I know what is going on. Your making non standard VBR mpeg1. Sorry, didn't know that. Figured you were going SVCD because of the 2500 bitrate.

It doesnt' matter what you put into the encoder for bitrate, it doesn't come out that way. Look at this, http://home.columbus.rr.com/sampleclips/bbMpeg.gif
Cinemacraft Light CBR at 1700, notice the average is 2130, but peaks at 2248. Thats kinda common for some encoders.
CCE's CBR isn't CBR They "try" to maintain an average bitrate around what was specified, that's what the manual says.

TMPG usually sticks around your max bit rate setting in VBR, try CBR with TMPG, viewing both VBR, and CBR bitstreams you'll see they are pretty much the same.

For a 90 minute movie with 2500 video and 128 audio, it would be ~1.7 gb.

Since you used VBR with a 2500 max, your video is stamped at 2500. Any time you encode with VBR, a flag is set telling the bit rate of your file, that flag is the max setting.
Same as CBR. Just because you enter 1150 doesn't mean it stays at 1150, (look at the link above), but your file is still flagged at 1150.

As for your muxing problems, and mysterious growing files, you're doing something there. Padding does happening but not @ 100+mb a file.

Maybe you've got this or that check/unchecked by accident. I'd examine your settings, and try again with a short sample 10-20 minutes.

[Truman]

homerpez, I guess you use cce sp 2.5.
So this way worked for me:
cce: Video MPEG-1 VBR multipass (max 2500)
toolame: Audio
TMPG: Multiplex as Video-CD (non-standard)
Don't select the types "MPEG-1 system automatic" or "Video-CD". This might give you a wrong filesize.
Muxing mpeg1 VBR and audio with bbMPEG never worked for me properly.
Back to your first post. When I choose VBR, I can not do a Program stream, I must use "ES", and I never used "PS" and I never had problems with it.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-25 00:31:52, Truman wrote:
homerpez, I guess you use cce sp 2.5.
So this way worked for me:
cce: Video MPEG-1 VBR multipass (max 2500)
toolame: Audio
TMPG: Multiplex as Video-CD (non-standard)
Don't select the types "MPEG-1 system automatic" or "Video-CD". This might give you a wrong filesize.
Muxing mpeg1 VBR and audio with bbMPEG never worked for me properly.
Back to your first post. When I choose VBR, I can not do a Program stream, I must use "ES", and I never used "PS" and I never had problems with it.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, so long as TMPGEnc's multiplexing doesn't do any harm (I've been told it does for some, but I'll trust you), I'll try that next time.

I've suspected that bbMPEG was the true cause here (it painfully did brand my movie as 2500k/sec CBR!), so next time I'll try TMPGEnc and see.

Was this using "Simple Multiplex", or "Multiplex" window? and, you said to select "Non-Standard VCD" instead of "MPEG-1 VBR"?... just wanna make sure I get this right!

[Truman]

you can use "simple multiplex" or "multiplex" tab. That does not matter. But select TYPE: Video-CD (non-standard)

[Crzylgs15]

Can someone help me with the PULLDOWN.EXE function of disturbed1's method. What is it for? Do I need to do it and if so what is the command line that I use.

I just want it to work in my Pioneer DV-343.

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-25 06:58:27, Crzylgs15 wrote:
Can someone help me with the PULLDOWN.EXE function of disturbed1's method. What is it for? Do I need to do it and if so what is the command line that I use.

I just want it to work in my Pioneer DV-343.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Pulldown adds the needed flags to a 23.976fps video for 29.97 playback in a Standalone. SVCD's should be at 29.97.

Open a command line prompt (MSDOS window), drag n drop pulldown.exe to this window.

Press spacebar, drag n drop your 23.976fps video only file to the MSDOS window.

Press spacebar type the output file's directory, and filename (F:\movie.m2v).
It may take 5 minutes for a 1.4gig file.

Then mux with bbMpeg choosing SVCD. The 2:3 pulldown is auto dectected. Your SVCD will now play correctly at 29.97 on standalone players.

If you encoded with TMPG, you can select this by choosing 3:2 pulldown when playback under the Encode mode.

If this doesn't help, just ask what part needs clarified.

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-25 03:28:06, Truman wrote:
you can use "simple multiplex" or "multiplex" tab. That does not matter. But select TYPE: Video-CD (non-standard)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Good catch.
I believe that will resolve his problem. I just assumed he would've muxed as a nonstandard VCD

[homerpez]

Well... When MPEG-1 VBR is a choice on the list, who can blame me for choosing it!

I'll definitely give that one a try (maybe I'll get less speedup/slowdown effect if I use CCE too... no more having to pick "0 MIN" bitrate just to get my file size right for 2-pass...

Thanks, everyone...