Need help choosing a program please...

[Drake1132]

Hi everyone,

OK, so I've tried a number of different programs, not just free ones, but trials and demos as well, and I can't seem to find a program that will successfully do what I need. The closest I've come is Microsoft Expression Encoder 3, and XMedia Recode, but they have problems too. Expression Encoder seems to have issues with certain files and their frame rates (other programs have had similar issues), and it also will not open and work with MKV files, while XMedia Recode is prodigiously slow and gave me some very poor audio quality, possibly having to do with the volume normalization algorithm used, I'm not sure (I need to try it without normalization and see if it is any better), and XMedia Recode also does not seem to have subtitle support. But the point is, I haven't yet found a program that will do what I need, so I would like to get some input from those who have used other programs. I have tried some 15 programs (give or take a couple), without satisfactory success and really need some suggestions as to what to try next.

Here's what I'm looking for from a program, and I would like to be able to manage all of this with a single program if possible...

Should be able to open and convert MKV files, XviD AVI files, and DivX AVI files.

Should be able to encode those files into one of the following...

• MPEG-4 Part 2 ASP Video, with 5.1 channel AC3 Audio in an AVI container.
• WMV Video, with 5.1 channel WMA9 Pro Audio in a WMV container.
• Any other format with 5.1 channel audio *known* to work in the XBox 360 regardless of whether or not the official XBox 360 Video Playback FAQ says it is supported (the faq can be found at http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/gamesandmedia/movies/videofaq/viewvideoplaybackfaq.aspx).
• (In other words, 5.1 channel audio in an XBox 360 compatible file/codec format).

Should be able to take subtitles files (including those packed into an MKV container) and either convert them into hard subs or ignore them, at my choice, and ideally I would like to be able to specify the fonts used, including style, size, color, outlining and other text effects, and transparency. Videora Converter handles this reasonably well if using the proper settings (minus font control), but most other programs I've used seem to have issues, and many programs don't have any options for working with subtitles at all.

Should be able to apply volume normalization and give me the ability to specify the extent of that normalization (similar to the way XMedia Recode does).

Should be able to convert frame rates and handle or fix odd frame rates so that a 90-minute video does not get converted into a 30-minute file nor into a 270-minute file (I've experienced both of those issues with several programs).

Should be able to correctly encode to a video bit rate of 1024kbps or higher (shouldn't be a problem normally, but Videora Converter seems to have issues with capping at 800kbps regardless of the settings you choose), and an audio bit rate of 128kbps or higher (also shouldn't generally be a problem).

Should be able to force video resize through expanding/shrinking and padding the original stream to force 4x3 and/or 16x9 Aspect Ratios regardless of the size and ratios of the original video streams, but without stretch distortions. Resizing should maintain original aspect ratios until one dimension, width or height, is at the desired size while the other is also at the desired size or smaller, then letterbox bars/padding should be added to fill out the other dimension to the desired size if necessary.

Should be able to do all of this very quickly. I realize that there are technological limitations on how fast this sort of thing can be done, but I would prefer it if a 30-minute video did not take 90 minutes to convert. Ideally, I would like the time it takes to convert a file to be less than the duration of the video itself, but I still want a quality conversion. This is for 1-pass conversions, 2-pass conversions would obviously take longer.

Should have an easy to use GUI. It doesn't have to be a great looking GUI, or even an intuitive one, but should be one that I can figure out for myself.

Should be available in an English version (unfortunately I'm not fluent in any other languages).

Should be able to convert 5.1 channel audio without messing up the channel mapping (a problem myself and others have run into with MediaCoder and MKV files).

I think that covers my wish list. So if people could please point me to programs that they have used that they know work and have all of those features, or at least most of them, I would very much appreciate it, because I'm really tired of downloading and installing programs, spending hours figuring them out and converting a few files, only to find that they screwed something up. Pretty much all of the features listed are must haves except for subtitle font control. I would also be willing to accept a slow program if it does everything else, but I would prefer a fast one that does it all. If necessary, I would be willing to use multiple programs to achieve what I want, such as demuxing, converting streams individually, then remuxing, but I would prefer a program that does all of that itself, automatically, so that I can run batch conversions while I sleep. If I absolutely *must* do so, I can give up on 5.1 channel audio, which would open up other video formats, including h.264 with 2 channel stereo AAC, but I'd rather not have to do that because I like preserving 5.1 surround sound when it's available (I don't have a surround sound speaker system for no reason).

So if people could give me some suggestions on what to check out and try, even if the program is not highly rated, that would be great. I would prefer free programs if possible, since I don't have a lot of money to spare these days.

Thanks,
Drake

[Baldrick]

I doubt you will find such a tool. Maybe try hdconverttox.

Or what is wrong using several converters depending what you want? I use handbrake, xvid4psp, avidemux and winff.

[Drake1132]

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with using multiple tools depending on the task at hand, it just seems like it shouldn't be necessary... video/audio conversion is video/audio conversion, and while different codecs and formats require different things to be used or worked with, there is a large number of tools that work with multiple formats, but for some reason they lack other features. So let's consider an example. I have some anime episodes in MKV with multiple subtitle streams. I want to be able to watch those files through my XBox 360 and my TV rather than having to watch them on my computer all the time. Now since most tools don't handle subtitles well, I either a) need a new program, or b) need to use a program that will handle the subtitles but convert to a format that is not playable in the XBox 360, and then convert the new file into an XBox 360 compatible file once the subtitles have been hard coded. This doubles (at least) the time it takes to convert each file all because the second program won't handle subtitles, or perhaps will handle subtitles, but not MKV files, or perhaps can do both subtitles and MKV but can't produce an XBox 360 compatible output file, etc. It seems to me that there are a lot of programs out there that can do one or more of the things that I want, so why couldn't there be a single program to do all of what I want?

It is possible that such a program does not exist, and if that's the case, it reflects poorly on the cooperation and collaboration of the programmers within the video conversion community. I'm looking for basically 11 features, and that isn't a large number. If program1 has 6 of those features, and program2 has some of those first 6, but not all of them, but also has a couple of the others that were lacking in program1, and program3 has the remaining 1-3 features that are missing from the set, then why couldn't someone write a programX that has all 11? It seems to me that there is plenty of feature overlap, but nothing really complete, and I can't help but wonder why. Since I have only tried about 10% of the programs listed at https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/video-encoders, I can't say that such a program doesn't already exist, only that I haven't found it. Which brings me back to my original post... I'm hoping that such a program *does* exist, and that someone who knows about it will point me to it, without my having to try all 111 different programs.

Thank you for the suggestions though, I'll check out HDConvertToX, XviD4PSP, and AviDemux (I haven't tried any of those yet).

Drake

[lordsmurf]

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with using multiple tools depending on the task at hand, it just seems like it shouldn't be necessary...

I hate to sound rude, but you clearly have no idea how video works.
Video is not simply "video".

It's about the same as expecting that your toaster can bake bread, heat your house and power the water heater.
Heat is not simply "heat".

[Supreme2k]

Or what is wrong using several converters depending what you want? I use handbrake, xvid4psp, avidemux and winff.

Done in one!

I hate to sound rude...

No you don't

[Drake1132]

@lordsmurf: Converting a video stream from a particular encoding into another encoding using a program is the same as converting that same stream from that same encoding into that same second encoding using a different program. The same goes for audio streams. The program source code will be implemented somewhat differently based on the coding style of the programmer(s) but the methods are, by necessity, a virtually identical process, and therefore, a/v conversion *is* the same from one program to the next if they can open the same file and convert that file into the same output format as each other. Anyone who knows anything about file conversion in general, a/v file conversion more specifically, and programming in general would know that. I simplified the expression in order to be more concise, but the description was perfectly accurate. I'm not comparing apples to oranges nor toasters to water heaters, I'm comparing one a/v converter to another that performs more or less the same function but with different features. In short, *you* are the one who clearly has no idea how things work. Or do you honestly expect people to believe that converting an MKV file with MPEG-4 video and MP3 audio into an AVI with MPEG-4 video and AC3 audio would really be done significantly differently in two programs but still manage to produce the same output? the point is, I'm looking for 11 features, and I have found and used programs that have *some* of those features, but not all of them, but all of the features are present in at least one program that I've used. It is, therefore, perfectly technologically and theoretically possible for a program to exist which has all 11 features, and all I want to know is, a) does it already exist, and b) if it does, where can I find it?

Drake

[Supreme2k]

Many tools use different methods to achieve a similar goal. notice I said similar.
There are different tools better suited for creating certain file types than others. In your long, drawn-out posts, you have actually managed to oversimplify the encoding process, seemingly in an attempt to diminish the differences in programs.
This is a similar case to transcoding vs. encoding. Many people think that those two terms are interchangeable too.

I simplified the expression in order to be more concise

If that's simplified, I'd hate to see "complicated".
Have you ever written a response that wasn't book-length?

but all of the features are present in at least one program that I've used.

a) does it already exist, and b) if it does, where can I find it?

I don't get it? Did you not just answer your own question before asking it? From your own words, you already have the program that you need.

[Drake1132]

I don't get it? Did you not just answer your own question before asking it? From your own words, you already have the program that you need.

It amazes me how many people fail to understand basic English... allow me to simplify it even further...

Feature 1 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the following.

Feature 2 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as the above or the following.

Feature 3 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 4 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 5 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 6 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 7 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 8 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 9 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 10 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above or following.

Feature 11 is present in at least one program, but not necessarily the same program as any of the above.

And yet, there is not one single program that has all 11 features.

Does that clear it up for you?

As to the length of my posts, they include simplified technical information rather than a complete Masters Thesis, and oversimplification is necessary, otherwise they contain explicit details in order to convey clear meaning. I assume that those who would be able to point me to a program like I am asking for would understand it very well. Unfortunately this assumes that the readers understand video conversion technologies *and* the English language. I hardly feel that less than 2 pages, typed, and single-spaced, over the course of three posts could possibly constitute a book. Maybe you should try visiting a library to see the difference.

As to the difference between encoding and transcoding... there really is very little. A transcoder unpacks, decodes, reads, re-encodes in a different codec, and then re-packs, and thus it uses an encoder and a process of encoding. Since the coding of a given codec is always the same for that codec, a converter/transcoder that decodes one type and encodes into another type is essentially the same as any other converter/transcoder that decodes that same first type and encodes into the same second type. All the rest is a matter of interface and features. Some encoders (including those frequently used by converter programs) can handle multiple codecs, and the way one encoder processes a given codec may be different from the methods used by another encoder to process the same codec, but in the end, the coding is still the same, and thus the encoders are the same in function even though they are not the same in details.

But I would like to bring this thread back on topic... I would like suggestions concerning programs that people have successfully used to convert files into 5.1 channel XBox 360 compatible alternatives, ideally with all of the 11 features mentioned in my original post.

Drake

[subc]

I don't hate to be rude Drake1132, but you come off like a total ass with your attitude and clearly have no idea how video encoding/decoding works. lordsmurf already pointed out a very reasonable analogy as to what you expect a program to do, and yet you refuse to learn this new information and insist in your ignorance.

hey asshat, have you heard of this little program called 'cinemacraft encoder sp' ? Guess what, it costs about $2000 and it doesn't do the things you want.

I have a better idea since you know how video encoding works: make your own program that does all of this! what's that? you are not a programmer? .. well, no problem! spend the next few years learning and then spend more years making the program, and then release it for free for us to use. how does that sound? and do it pronto because I need it.

[Supreme2k]

Again,

I'm looking for 11 features, and I have found and used programs that have *some* of those features, but not all of them, but all of the features are present in at least one program that I've used. It is, therefore, perfectly technologically and theoretically possible for a program to exist which has all 11 features, and all I want to know is, a) does it already exist, and b) if it does, where can I find it?

Drake

In your own words.

[EarlLaredo]

Grammar lessons aside... here's what I'm doing to achieve 5.1 audio in a wmv for Xbox360.

1. Use MakeMKV to pack the video and selected audio & subtitles into one mkv file.
2. Use tsMuxer to convert the mkv into a m2ts file. (EE3 does not support MKV)
3. Import the m2ts into Expression 3 encoder (when importing, select 'All Files' because m2ts isn't listed as supported, but trust me, it does).
4. Convert using 'Encoding for Devices / VC-1 XBox 360'.

Now, so far, I haven't needed to include subtitles. But now I'm converting a movie with significant foreign language scenes (The Godfather). I haven't tested if the Expression Encoder 3 supports subtitles (especially from blu rays). If I find that it doesn't, is there a way I can insert the subtitles into the wmv file resulting from EE3?