Problem capturing mini dv audio w/ camcorder other than one used to record

[Nuzy]

Hello. I have a problem with audio playback on a few avi files captured from some of my mini dv tapes. I had a Sony TRV22 camcorder that broke. I bought a Canon ZR950 to replace it. I had recorded and captured several tapes using the Sony before it broke and the avi files play fine. However, I had a few tapes left that I recorded on the Sony that did not get captured to my PC before the Sony camcorder broke. The problem I have is that the audio is very choppy on the avi files captured from tapes recorded on the Sony and subsequently captured using the Canon (skips/blanks out every couple seconds or so). The strange thing is that the audio from the Sony recorded tapes plays fine when listed to through the Canon camcorder - it's only choppy when played through the PC during and after capture (or even when playing through Roxio EMC 10 Suite without any capture at all). Audio on the avi files from tapes recorded on the Canon and captured on the Canon are fine.

I contacted Canon and they were not much help. They claim the camera is fine and it's a tape issue. I don't disagree the camera is fine. I'm not so sure I agree the tapes are bad, especially since I successfully captured so many of them before the Sony broke, plus they play fine through the Canon camera. Roxio has me going down a PC driver/hardware path, but given that I've captured tapes ok before and still can so long as I record and capture them on the Canon, I don't think that's it. Do any of you have any thoughts as to what might be causing this - is there such a thing as mini dv tape camcorder compatibility issues that would cause a previously recorded mini dv tape to play ok in another camera but not capture properly to a PC? I'm going to try to find a Sony camcorder to borrow and try capturing the sony recorded tapes using another sony camcorder to see if that helps. I only have 4 of them and once I get them captured I won't have to worry about it any more.

One other strange thing. The stuttering/choppy audio happens when I play the captured avi files through the Roxio EMC 10 Suite software or Windows Vista Media Player, but it's fine when I play it through the free version of Quicktime??? I have also tried capturing using Video Import in Vista and still end up with the same problem.

Thank you for any help and assistance you might be able to provide!

[edDV]

Were these tapes recorded LP mode?

[Nuzy]

Were these tapes recorded LP mode?

No, I only record in SP mode. I thought maybe I accidently changed something and could have been recording in LP, but there is only 1 hour of video on each tape and all the tape was completely used up.

Thanks,
Mike

[edDV]

You are using IEEE-1394 to capture the tapes correct? Use WinDV for capture. It may be a Roxio issue. Try playing the DV-AVI file with VLC.

If it is a camcorder related issue, I'd try to borrow another miniDV camcorder and when you find one that works, capture or dub the tapes. There will be no loss from dubbing DV format over IEEE-1394 once the player issues are resolved. When you connect IEEE-1394 you are just streaming data.

[Nuzy]

Yeah, I kind of figured that's where I'd end up. The only thing I can think of is maybe the heads are alinged differently on the different brand camcorders or something. However, if that were the case, you would think I would get the problem when playing through the camcorder too. My in-laws have a Sony camcorder that I will have available tomorrow to test. I'll post back one way or the other. Even if it does work, I'd sure like to know what's causing it to happen.

[filmboss80]

It may be a 12bit / 16bit audio issue. The DV capture software may be looking for 16bit stereo and some of the tapes may have been recorded in the 12bit, 4-channel mode.

Just a theory.

[Nuzy]

It may be a 12bit / 16bit audio issue. The DV capture software may be looking for 16bit stereo and some of the tapes may have been recorded in the 12bit, 4-channel mode.

Just a theory.

I like that theory! Unfortunately, I don't recall what mode the Sony was set to record in - probably the default so maybe I can find the manual on-line and see if there is a default setting. Assuming this is the issue, any thoughts on whether there is a way to remedy this? I can't find anything in the Roxio EMC 10 Suite software that allows me to change the capture to 12 bit or 16 bit mode. I figured the software would automatically pick up whatever mode the tape was recorded in. For all the tapes I've tried capturing with the Canon, I seem to recall it always reports as a 16 bit capture. I don't recall the ZR950 having an option to change how the audio is exported to the PC.

Thanks for the input!

[edDV]

It may be a 12bit / 16bit audio issue. The DV capture software may be looking for 16bit stereo and some of the tapes may have been recorded in the 12bit, 4-channel mode.

Just a theory.

I like that theory! Unfortunately, I don't recall what mode the Sony was set to record in - probably the default so maybe I can find the manual on-line and see if there is a default setting. Assuming this is the issue, any thoughts on whether there is a way to remedy this? I can't find anything in the Roxio EMC 10 Suite software that allows me to change the capture to 12 bit or 16 bit mode. I figured the software would automatically pick up whatever mode the tape was recorded in. For all the tapes I've tried capturing with the Canon, I seem to recall it always reports as a 16 bit capture. I don't recall the ZR950 having an option to change how the audio is exported to the PC.

Thanks for the input!

Players should be able to sort out 12bit vs 16bit PCM. They usually only see the primary stereo pair. Try playing the DV-AVI file with VLC. I'm suspicious of Roxio.

[JohnnyMalaria]

What happens if you send a captured file back to the Canon via FireWire? Do the audio and video behave properly at the camcorder end?

If so, this indicates a PC-related playback issue rather than a tape/camcorder one. i.e., the capture was faithful and sending the data back to the camcorder is also correct implying the file is okay, too. Hence, it must be down to the decoding and playback on the computer.

Some soundcard chipsets can be problematic on Vista. e.g., certain media player + chipset combinations can lead to choppy audio with DV files (don't ask why!) To troubleshoot this, you could try our software to play a file while telling it to use a different means of playing the audio (i.e., override the default DirectSound choice). Another way to test the audio hardware theory is to temporarily disable your soundcard in Control Panel. If the video is no longer jerky, it suggests an audio/Vista/chipset issue.

[Nuzy]

Thanks guys. I'll try the VLC program tonight after work. I'm not sure how to capture from file back to camcorder, so I'll have to research that a bit. The video is fine, just the audio that is stuttering/choppy. I tried burning one of the avi files with the audio problem to DVD using Roxio and still get the choppy sound when played through a DVD player. Perhaps it is a problem with Roxio translating the tapes that were recorded on the sony but captured using the canon. Either way, I found a friend who has a Sony TRV22, so I may still be able to capture with his camera if these suggestions don't work. Thank you all for the time and assistance so far. I appreciate it!

[JohnnyMalaria]

WinDV provides a pretty painless way to send the file back to the camcorder.

[Nuzy]

I used WinDV to capture the sony recorded tapes using the canon camcorder and end up with the same choppy audio problem.

I used WinDV to stream the avi file with the audio problem from the PC back to the camcorder and it sounds fine through the camcorder. I couldn't figure out how to record it to tape, but it would play through the camcorder.

I tried VLC and it gave me problems with all my avi files, whether recorded or captured on sony or canon. The files start ok, but the audio has an immediate screeching noise. When I switch from stereo to left channel only the audio is fine. After that, if I let the file play continuously without jumping to another part of the file, it plays fine. Once I jump to another part of the file, the audio and video are choppy. I played the files again in Windows Media Player and with the exception of those files recorded on sony and captured using canon, they are all ok.

So, tomorrow night I will have my in-laws Sony camcorder, although a different model than my original TRV22, to try to capture the sony recorded tapes. If that doesn't work I have a friend who owns a TRV22 that will let me use his camcorder to capture my sony recorded tapes. I'll let you know how that turns out.

The most frustrating thing about this, even if using a sony camcorder works, is if I ever lose my captured avi files I'll be SOL unless I can find another sony camcorder to capture them with. Then again, some day mini dv will be gone with the wind and I'll be lucky to find a camcorder to even play the tapes! I assume this strange incompatability I'm seeing is not normal, otherwise there would be more about it on the internet.

[edDV]

Evidence is pointing to the computer as the culprit. Watch out it doesn't escape!

[Nuzy]

I guess one way to determine that would be to take my canon camcorder and a sony camcorder recorded tape to another computer and capture it there. Maybe I'll try that some time. My PC is a Dell XPS 410 with a 8800GT so the hardware should be plenty adequate - perhaps it's a quirky driver thing, although I've updated all of those. Plus, I can still capture canon recorded tapes with my canon camcorder without any trouble. Just drives me nuts when I can't solve these kind of things. I'll report back tonight after trying a different camcorder.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Something else to try. It seems you have a problem when you capture a tape originally recorded on your TRV22 in that playback of the file is choppy yet sending it back to the Canon is okay. This suggests the file is okay but to confirm, can you put the file on an external hard drive and use a different computer to play it? And vice versa - i.e., use a different computer to capture to an external drive and play it on your PC.

[Nuzy]

Good suggestion. I can do the play the file on another PC part because have an older PC that the kids use and an external drive that I can move between the two. I don't have a firewire port on that PC though so I can't use it for capturing anything.

[Nuzy]

Well, I got a hold of my in-laws Sony camcorder. It's a model DCR-HC21. Even though it isn't the same model as the Sony I used to record the tapes and is a few generations newer, it worked flawlessly. I was able to capture all 4 of my Sony recorded tapes without any issue at all. I still wish I knew what the heck is going on, but for the time being I've got everything captured to my PC. At some point, when I get a chance, I'll try to play the captured avi files with the audio problems on my other PC, just for kicks to see what happens. I will probably buy a used Sony camcorder off ebay as a backup in case I ever lose the avi files. Had I known I would run into this kind of problem I would have just bought another Sony to replace the old one. Oh well, lesson learned. Thank you all for the great suggestions. This forum is a great source of knowledge and I very much appreciate your time and assistance.

[skrobnsn]

I'm having this exact same problem. Mine were recorded with Sony TRV38. It broke and I am trying to playback on Canon camcorder and audio is all messed up. I think mine were recorded in LP-mode. What does this mean?
My mother has an old DCR-HC85 so I'm hoping I can borrow hers and it will work.

What causes this and what does LP-mode have to do with it?

Thanks!

[2Bdecided]

LP mode pack the tracks much close together on the tape, meaning any slight misalignment between the heads that recorded the tape, and the ones playing it back, will cause far more problems - e.g. they'll pick up information from adjacent tracks.

In SP mode, the tracks are further apart, so slight misalignment won't cause a problem.

In some professional formats, the tracks are even further apart than SP mode DV, to make recording more robust.

If the record and playback machines are in perfect alignment, LP mode works fine - but most camcorder manuals warn against expecting LP recordings to play on another machine for this very reason.

Cheers,
David.