Proper PAL-to-NTSC conversion, and viceversa

[jeanpave]

Hi.

Could someone tell me if there is a software program that can do conversions between PAL and NTSC the perfect way, please?
What I mean is, for example, 44 minutes in NTSC is close to 42 minutes in PAL, due to the different frame rates. So, is there a program that accurately changes the time duration, too?

I tried to convert a NTSC program to PAL using NeroVision, but the runtime stayed the same.

Thank you very much!

[Baldrick]

Avoid Nero. It's not a video tool.

The best method depends on your source frame rate, like 29.97 to 25fps or 23,976 to 25fps.

I would start reading some of the hundred of topics about this like https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368261.html?highlight=pal%20ntsc and you will see that you wont find any perfect way.

[jagabo]

There is no "perfect" way but the link that Baldrick gave is a good starting point.

[victoriabears]

I have alarge number of vhs and dvd in both pal and ntsc and always wonder why anyone would want to convert, as I use players which do so admirably.

So I am very interested in your reason.

The techno reasons often given to do with film/fps etc frankly baffle me as I have rarely found the need.

When I have done it, Tmpg express does a great job.

[mazinz]

I have alarge number of vhs and dvd in both pal and ntsc and always wonder why anyone would want to convert, as I use players which do so admirably.

So I am very interested in your reason.

The techno reasons often given to do with film/fps etc frankly baffle me as I have rarely found the need.

When I have done it, Tmpg express does a great job.

mainly for convenience
because a lot of peole do not have dvd players that can play both (or at least convert it on the fly), and a lot of people do not watch movies on the pc (myself being one of them). Add in the fact if they bring a movie over to a friend's house who might not have this type of set up and we have at least 3 valid reasons for a conversion

[jeanpave]

I have alarge number of vhs and dvd in both pal and ntsc and always wonder why anyone would want to convert, as I use players which do so admirably.

So I am very interested in your reason.

The techno reasons often given to do with film/fps etc frankly baffle me as I have rarely found the need.

When I have done it, Tmpg express does a great job.

First of all, thank you to everybody for their replies.


I have TMPGEnc Xpress, Victoriabears, but I am not always happy with its video processing quality.
However, since AVI to AVI generally works fine, I'll give it a try. Thanks a million for the suggestion!

Now, since you seemed so interested in my reason, here it is:
There's a TV show that I like very much. Unfortunately, it wasn't released (properly) on DVD, and the TV broadcasts in North America and Great Britain are not uncut. (You see, at the moment I have most rips from a British channel, but some are from an American channel.) I can find uncut TVrips from Germany and France, though. Of course, they are PAL. And, while I can superimpose the video from these non-English-speaking releases over the British (PAL) audio, it's quite impossible to do the same to a NTSC audio track.
So, you see the predicament. It's not simply a play issue.

[victoriabears]

Given the time it takes, a cheap , even , portable dvd player might be a solution to the friends house scenaro.

Now I am interested in the TV show referred to, if you do not mind revealing it

As you can see I am determined to halt all conversions

[jman98]

jeanpave - Maybe you should name the TV show as someone might know of a place where you can get it uncut. And please do not say "rips". You do NOT have "rips from a British channel". Ripping ONLY refers to extracting the contents of a DVD or CD to your hard drive and nothing else. If it was recorded from British TV, it is NOT a "rip". I am curious as to how you think that you are going to make the conversion work since you say that DVDs aren't proper (whatever that means). If you are able to convert the uncut video to NTSC, the NTSC audio from the DVD is for the edited version of the show, right? So how do you plan to fix that problem?

mazinz - In my opinion, if you have to do this more than ONCE, you need to either just buy a converting DVD player for your cheap friends or get new friends. There is no way I would do conversions on a regular basis for ANYBODY - not even family. Once, yes, but no more. I bought my brother a DVD player that converts PAL to NTSC specifically so I don't have to ever do conversions for him. Of course I value my spare time and many people do not, so if you don't mind spending hours converting DVDs from PAL to NTSC, that is your business. I think it's insane to do that on a regular basis for free.

I really really strongly agree with victoriabears. Conversions are just insane and if you have to do it more than once, you need to seriously think about alternatives.

[jeanpave]

Hi again.

Well, the audio is not edited; only the video is edited. So, if I can get the English-speaking version to have the same number of frames per second as the foreign-speaking version, it's a simple matter of splitting the audio and video, and then combining those uncut from the two separate sources.

As for the term "TVrip", I saw it numerous times in different places. If you say it's incorrect, Jman98, I'll consider using it in the future more seriously.
But, first, let me ask you this: If the person who records the TV broadcasts records them onto a DVD+R/DVD-R disc, and then creates AVIs from those recordings (on his hard-drive), are those not still considered "rips"? ...Even though they are not made from original DVDs?

But, with this semantics discussion, as well as with the talks about the DVD player and the title of the show, may I just say that we are changing the initial focus of the topic?

Getting back to the issue, TMPGEnc Xpress does not do the conversion properly, either. The duration still remains as the NTSC source. Thanks for the suggestion, Victoriabears, but...

Is there a program that actually converts 44 minutes of NTSC footage into 42 minutes of PAL footage?

Thanks.

[victoriabears]

Oh go on, tell us what the show is called, we are all curious now.

[jagabo]

Is there a program that actually converts 44 minutes of NTSC footage into 42 minutes of PAL footage?

If it's an AVI file you can use AviFrate to change the frame rate in the header. VirtualDub lets you override the frame rate of the source. AviSynth has the simple command AssumeFPS().

[jeanpave]

Oh, all right, Victoriabears. If you really must know, it's 'The Outer Limits' (1994-2002). Only Season 1 and various episodes from throughout the series (organized thematically) got proper DVD releases.
Even though the episodes are still very interesting in their TV versions, it rubs me the wrong way to know that the French and German people (and pretty much everybody who doesn't speak English, probably) - oh, and those who catch it on the Sky channels, in Britain - can see them totally uncensored on TV and on the web while we can't.
I wouldn't mind doing some volunteer work to get these episodes that aren't on DVD to look like they looked on Showtime (minus the logo, of course).

Jagabo:
Thank you very much for the suggestions. I'll try AviFrate first, because yes, it is an AVI.


By the way, I was browsing some other threads on this forum, and I saw that somebody posted a question regarding changing some files from 29.97 fps to 25 fps. A person who helped him suggested to use AviSynth to Inverse Telecine, and then to use DGPulldown.
So, I downloaded DGPulldown. It can only do conversions from a lower number of fps to a higher one, so I tried it on the French AVI edition of the show. However, the software said it only converted about two thousand frames, roughly, and it finished its work in a couple of minutes or so. When I checked the output, it was still the same duration.
But then I checked the general information file in the Program Files folder of DGPulldown, and it said that the source file must be progressive, not interlaced.
Consequently, I have to ask, if I use any program (like, say, TMPGEnc Xpress) to convert the AVI into a MPEG-2, is the source file that I'm going to be inputting into DGPulldown progressive then? It should work, theoretically, no?

Has anybody else used DGPulldown?


Thanks again, guys!

[jagabo]

AviFrate changes the frame rate and the running time OF THE VIDEO STREAM. It just changes the numbers in the header of the AVI file that tell the player how long to display each frame. The player still shows every frame, just for a different length of time. The the higher you set the frame rate the shorter the length of time each frame is displayed, and the faster the entire video plays. The audio continues to play at the same rate as before -- so it will get out of sync.

DgPulldown uses MPEG2 pulldown flags to instruct the player how to output fields (interlaced video is viewed one field at a time) from progressive frame sources. It does not change the running time. It can be used to increase the playback frame rate (by repeating fields) by a factor of 1.0 to 1.5. It is usually used for 3:2 pulldown where frames of a 23.976 fps source alternately display for 3 fields, then 2 fields, then 3 fields, then 2 fields...

To use DgPulldown you encode with progressive frames, then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags.

[victoriabears]

http://www.amazon.ca/outer-limits/s/qid=1247340688/ref=sr_nr_i_0?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywords=...mits%2Ci%3Advd
and http://www.zip.ca/Browse/Title.aspx?f=clid%28103528%29

is I am guessing what you already know about?

I also PM'd you with another idea.

[jeanpave]

To Jagabo:
Thank you very much, my good man! I'm so glad you replied to this thread.
AVIFrate does, indeed, what I want. (And I don't care about the audio in this case, so...)
I am quite sure now that there is no program that can do the conversion that I was talking about through a single process. You see, the NTSC episode had about 70 thousand frames, while the PAL episode about 60 thousand frames. By increasing the frame rate of the PAL episode, for example, I would have gotten an even shorter duration, and vice versa for the NTSC episode.
I suppose the creators of the program have special tools to convert from film format (24 fps) to PAL and NTSC, separately. (That might explain the different number of frames) ...If I understand it properly, that is.
But, since I only want to modify the video, AVIFrate is great. All I had to do was to change the frame rate back to 24 fps and I got the exact same video runtime as for the NTSC version. So, then, I was able to combine the uncut video and the NTSC audio. (It's the best I can do to watch one of my favourite shows uncut, no?)
Thanks again!
(And thanks also for explaining about DGPulldown. I guess I wouldn't have had a use for it anyway.)

To Victoriabears:
I know what's available commercially, my friend. But thanks for the effort.
I actually bought the 6 collections (Aliens Among Us, Time Travel and Infinity, etc.). Right now, I'm still thinking whether or not I should buy the Season 1 boxset (- that one's uncut).
Before this home editing breakthrough, I didn't want to buy it because I knew I would be upset about not having the uncut versions of the episodes from the other seasons every time I would have watched the show.
By the way... those Canadian releases that say "Best of Season 1 and 2", "Season 3" and "Season 4" -> DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THAT CRAP! They removed the TV logo from the versions they show on TV, and put them on video discs; that's it! (Only the Season 1 release is unedited.)
Just compare a ripped Season 1 episode with its TV version, and you'll see what I'm talking about. They're both easy to find now. Speaking of which, have you ever watched the show?
(Oh, and I'm only talking about the remake, the TV series that started in the '90s. I'm not too familiar with its incarnation from the '60s.)

[GKar]

Don't know if will work for you but I ripped the Australian dvd Razorback (movie only) and used Ifoedit to do the PAL/NTSC pseudo conversion. It worked for me.