Gotta Ask - Just Messin' Around

[macbuz]

This a low volume related task - just playing with it - kind of a learning exercise .......

I have a VIDEO_TS with all the usual vob, ifo and bup files. Seems the movie is on a few vob's - i.e. VTS_04_1.VOB, VTS_04_2.VOB, VTS_04_3.VOB AND VTS_04_4.VOB. Each of these is 1GB except the last is 113MB.

I demuxed VTS_04_1.VOB and got three files, 2 ac3 files and one m2v .... no mpg file. Found out that one of the ac3 files was spanish, tossed it. The other I loaded into Audacity to 'normalize' and it worked fine. Muxed it back to the m2v file and the audio is now fine but the video stutters.

2 questions (one of which is complex)

1. Can the stuttering video be 'adjusted'?

2. Since it appears this film's files exist in four vob files, if I were to continue to play with this ........ could I demux each, join the m2v's together, join the ac3's together, normalize the joined ac3, then mux the joined m2v and the joined/normalized ac3 back together (given: there's an answer to number 1 above )

Like I said - I'm just messing with this seeing what I can do.

Thank you

[macbuz]

This a low volume related task - The end result here is to take VIDEO_TS that has low volume and wind up with an avi whose volume is normalized and video doesn't stutter.

I'm still trying to work this out. Discovered that D-Vision will stitch my VOB's together in one pass - this helps alot. I started over again with another VIDEO_TS which also has a low volume issue. Playing through to the TV, the system volume is at 100% and the TV vol needs to be at 50% for decent listening - but those settings produce too much background noise.

Here's what I did this time. Selected 'all' the vob's (VIDEO_TS.VOB, VTS_01_0.VOB, VTS_01_1.VOB, etc) and had D-Vision stitch them together. Then used ffmpeg to demux the vobs. Wound up with 4 files, an m2v, and 3 ac3's. I tried loading each ac3 to Audacity. Two were over 500MBs and 1 was around 250MBs. One of the 500's had a loading time of over three hours - skipped it. Got the other two loaded and found they were different sound tracks - I think one was a looping track for before movie playback. Anyway I normalized both (about 15 minutes ea) then exported them back for muxing with the m2v file. I duplicated the m2v file and muxed ea ac3 with an m2v (using ffmpeg).

This is great (it seems) for getting the audio volume fixed, but I keep getting 'stuttering' video. The 'stitched' VOB file (no audio yet) plays smoothly, so am guessing the stuttering comes in the muxing process.

Playback didn't work as I hoped. Once loaded, it goes through intro's to settings/scene selection and I have no way of exiting that screen other than the space bar which throws me a few minutes into the movie and 'stuttering' video at that.

I'm guessing perhaps I should not use the VIDEO_TS.VOB in my 'stitched' VOB file, thinking this is where it gets 'stuck' in the pre-movie selections screen.

Looks like a wall of text (WOT) - sorry for that - but thinking I need to relate my workflow and results. Not sure if this helps, but here's the Ffmpeg Process Info from one of the muxes:

ffmpeg version 0.4.9-pre1, build 4736, Copyright (c) 2000-2004 Fabrice Bellard
configuration: --enable-mp3lame --enable-gpl --disable-vhook --enable-ffplay --disable-ffserver --enable-a52 --enable-xvid --enable-faac --enable-faad --enable-amr_nb --enable-amr_wb --enable-pthreads
built on Jan 7 2005 02:34:06, gcc: 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1666)
video:3593405kB audio:208999kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.341377%

[AlanHK]

Maybe the bitrate in your new AC3 is too high. Should be the same as the original, or lower.

[MacDSL]

I believe you can take the VIDEO_TS Folder and export the whole thing from Toast as a .dv file. It will be easier to work with the video and audio if they are in that format.

Get it as uncompressed as possible, work with it there, then re-compress to the format of your needs...

[macbuz]

AlanHK - thank you for the bitrate idea - I'm fairly sure my br was same original and new - not positive - am reprocessing it all ATM trying some diff parameters and apps and will watch for the bitrate.

MacDSL - This would be a new workflow for me, but 'I am not afraid' - I haven't worked with Toast at all - thinking I have a copy (not sure the version) on another computer. At any rate, I'll work with it and see what I can come up with - thank you for the suggestion.

[macbuz]

Days later now and relative success. I have an avi movie with good sound, no sync issue, no volume issue. However, in the process I went from 16:9 to 4:3 somehow.

I imagine most of you guys are familiar enough with the processes you probably don't need to 'document' your steps. Not the case for me. I try so many different programs, settings and work flows - I don't remember how I got from there to here.

IIRC (I doubt it) - I took my stitched VOBs and demuxed them, had an m2v and ac3 to work with. Normalized the ac3. Muxing the m2v and ac3 did two things: 1. produced a 'stuttering video' and 2. produced an mpg file.

IIRC (questionable) - I muxed the mpg and ac3 and that produced two things: 1. A good movie, no stuttering, good volume and 2. The file went from 16:9 to 4:3.

I believe the original file was a stretched 4:3, had been reformatted to 16:9 - it shows supposedly round objects (moon for instance) a little oblong.

I did try the Toast and dv suggestion, wound up with a dv file 10x in size, from 4 to 40 GBs. Once I had the dv file I was lost again, didn't know which app to use to work with it. I was having HD issues (too full) - spent half a day just moving files to back up. Think I mentioned this earlier - I'm kinda like a dog chasing his tail - lots of motion .... going nowhere.

[AlanHK]

However, in the process I went from 16:9 to 4:3 somehow.

There is a Windows tool, MPEG4 Modifier, that can fix that.

[rumplestiltskin]

MPEG Streamclip will open the VOBs as one movie. Export to AVI and use the normalize feature to boost the volume.

[macbuz]

AlanHK - I have yet to use Mpeg4 Modifier, I have a few Windows tools I can run (DVD Shrink for one) but I'll get it loaded and see what it can do for me for future reference. Thank you.

rumplestiltskin - Thank you for pointing me to MpegSC - it did exactly as you said it would. I assume the normalizing function is a default function because I wasn't able to find a setting for it .... in any case, my project appears finished. Thank you very much.

I think I'm finally getting to a place with all this I may be able to develop work flows beyond trial and error ... successes are sweet.

[rumplestiltskin]

Normalize the audio: In the Export to... dialog, click "Adjustments" and check the "Automatic Volume Control" checkbox. Then slide the volume up or down. If the volume of the source is very low, a 1 or 2db boost may be necessary.

The great thing about the app is that you may select a short clip (by setting in and out points) and then testing the export repeatedly with various settings until you're satisfied.

[macbuz]

^ Cool ^

The adjusted volume must have been up a bit because the audio now is close to opposite, I really appreciate this tip, I've missed using Streamclip in my work flow just because I'm still learning which app's do what. So - thanks again.

[rumplestiltskin]

I tend to push the "quality" slider setting to 100%; it seems not to adversely affect the amount of time it takes. I usually H264/MP4 transcodes from AVI's, whatever, and have found this app to be a great tool.

Enjoy!

[macbuz]

MpegStreamclip is a wonder. I'm working it hard, experimenting with different settings. I'm transcoding the MPEG2 and AC3 files of VIDEO_TS to AVI. Tried a coding at 100% and it did dramatically increase the coding time. A transcode at 50% quality = approx 2 hrs (almost real time) and at 100% over 6 hrs. Part of my MO is to reduce file sizes so my media center drives can hold more.

Looks like leaving the adjustment at '0' is plenty with the automatic check box selected. I coded one with a low volume issue and increased it 2db and in the end couldn't get the volume low enough . Need to start using the I/O points and preview routine.

There's an 'Options' selection that defaults to 'Home Theater' performance and then a couple higher performance levels. How do these work - I mean do they increase quality above the 'Quality' settings? I'm guessing any increase in quality is directly related to file size.

Only thing missing in this app for me (so far) is a way to 'see' the keyboard shortcuts for editing. Takes a while for my 'ram' to memorize the shortcuts.

[rumplestiltskin]

Question: Why are you choosing "AVI"?

[macbuz]

Oh o!!

Well I'm just following a lead from another disc group (Apple Disc's) and read it was a decent means of serving up media while conserving disc space. Do I have other / better options?

I'm putting some emphasis on disc space because I can't layout the cash for new larger drives at the moment - my media center is a MDD 2x1G, 2G ram and an ATI 9800 Pro video card. Eventually I can add up to 4 more drives and have all the storage I'll ever need.

If I'd be better advised to use a different 'container' / 'codec' I'm open to suggestions / pointers?! I haven't progressed so far that I can't back up and regroup - only been at it a month or so (getting the media center hooked up and loaded).

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

EDIT: Thought I'd throw in that I'm using 'Front Row' for now as well, for my media server application.

[rumplestiltskin]

I like H264. MPEG Streamclip does a great job with this. You can make videos that will play in both the AppleTV and the 5G iPod (and newer). How are you connecting your Mac to your TV and audio?

[macbuz]

I like H264. MPEG Streamclip does a great job with this. You can make videos that will play in both the AppleTV and the 5G iPod (and newer). How are you connecting your Mac to your TV and audio?

The 9800 Pro has DVI out, with an adapter I am connected via HDMI. The audio out is from mini stereo RCA split to left and right and connected to TV.

My TV's best rez is 720p - not real happy with this but for now it's what I have. Would like to get to a 1080i TV soon.

I'm open to all suggestions / thoughts.

Edit: Doing an MP4 now - one way to find out is to do it. Wondering .... you mentioned MP4s from AVIs, since AVIs are already largely 'stripped', does transcoding them to MP4 help in some way? Seems you can't do better than what you have to start with.

Thanks

[tomlee59]

h264 is a very sophisticated codec. It provides higher quality at lower bitrates than, say, DVD's MPEG2 or DivX. However, this quality comes at a cost: Conversion into h264 (and indeed, playback) involves a vast number of computations, so conversion is much slower (e.g., factor of 5-10, depending on what you're comparing it to). So you will want the very fastest computer you can get your hands on if you plan to do any significant amount of converting.

On another note, if, as seems to be the case (based on some of your earlier posts in this thread), you are converting from DVD into DivX, a very good tool for doing this is D-Vision. It also has a provision for adjusting the audio amplitude, so if you are still encountering audio normalization issues, D-Vision allows you to tweak that.

[macbuz]

tomlee59,

The current transcode to Mp4 is at 65% after 2 hours and the films duration is about 3 hrs so it's happening close to real time it seems. Guess that is relative to 'quality' settings made. I'll see what I get from it - not real sure my 'eye' or 'ear' will tell the difference. Using a MBP 2.4G for the conversion.

You have mentioned D-Vision to me in the past and I have used it a few times ... I'll look at it again for the amplitude fix. One thing I need to do is figure out where in my workflow the audio sync issue develops.

My primary MO is to utilize my available disk space as best I can, smaller file sizes are better as long as the audio and video have no perceived flaws. You guys who frequent this forum are probably pros who do this work for a living and I am a hobbyist kinda feeling my way in the dark with occasional and appreciated guidance from you guys. Bottom line for now is my successes more than make up for the frustrations.

If you can, please answer this: For a hobbyist putting together a home media center, what codec would you suggest? AVI, Mp4, ???, ???. At the moment space is a bit of an issue, eventually however I should have maybe as much as 3TBs (4x750GB drives) in my MDD media server. Encoding time isn't really an issue as long as I can keep it somewhere near 'real time', if I added one or two titles a day I would have a fair library in short order.

Thank you for your time.

[tomlee59]

Based primarily on your criteria of high quality, small file size, and don't-care-much-about-conversion-speed, h264 fills the bill well. Once you've figured out how to handle all of the conversion issues that inevitably crop up from time to time, you'll be all set.

Personally, I still use XviD/DivX for most of what I do. I'm not as fussy about quality as some other folks, but I am impatient. Conversion into DivX is very fast, and I find the quality good enough. Plus, I have all the tools I need to handle what needs to get done. But every person has different tastes, so the only way to find what works for you is to try several things, evaluate the results for yourself, and make your choice. There's no single answer that's right for all folks.

[macbuz]

........ There's no single answer that's right for all folks.

- this is true - to each his own. It's good to know my two best options are probably either the DivX or h264. Interestingly the transcode I was working on finished just as I returned here - about 3.5 hrs.

In the end I may well be satisfied with the DivX quality and appreciate the speed that I can get there.

Thanks for your time and suggestions.

[rumplestiltskin]

You might want to check out the Western Digital media box; it's about $100 and you can swap out the external HD for an unlimited library. It connects to your TV with either composite or component.

An alternative (albeit more costly but with other abilities) is the AppleTV. It connects via component or HDMI. It requires the use of a HDTV whereas the WD box can make do with a SDTV.

I've been using the AppleTV for the last year or so and have been very happy with it. You can't put your entire library on it, of course, but I just copy whatever I want to watch to an iTunes playlist and sync with that playlist or (because I've patched the unit with the aTV patchstick) just ftp things in various encodings over to it. The patchstick installs Perian and Flip4Mac so the AppleTV can handle DivX, XviD, AVI, etc.

Of course, the WD box can handle all of this on its own but it doesn't get the podcasts and other web stuff.

Choices, choices. Either the WD box or the AppleTV, combined with your MDD as the "media server", would make an awesome combination.

Let us now how it goes.

[macbuz]

Have known about the Apple TV but the WD Media box is news to me ..... so it's an external enclosure you can swap drives in and out of?? I'll go google it.

In time I can see this all coming together - know about the iTunes playlists too, but know nothing about the ftp'ing business. Guess I have more googling to do

I'll be around a while - kinda out of work atm, so things are coming slowly.

Thanks for the clues.

[rumplestiltskin]

The WD box has no internal HD; it relies upon whatever USB external drive you have for its media storage. You can swap external HDs so your library is unlimited. I think BestBuy has it for about $100.

The patching for the AppleTV - look here:
http://www.atvflash.com/product_info.php?products_id=27

[jamerican]

(You might want to check out the Western Digital media box; it's about $100 and you can swap out the external HD for an unlimited library. It connects to your TV with either composite or component.)
I just purchased the WD media box and it is now capable of HDMI connection. As soon as it arrives I am going to put it through it's paces.

[rumplestiltskin]

jamerican,
That's great news about the WD box. I'd be interested in knowing whether it can play H264's intended for the iPod or AppleTV. Thanks!

[AntnyMD]

jamerican,
That's great news about the WD box. I'd be interested in knowing whether it can play H264's intended for the iPod or AppleTV. Thanks!

I have this box, and its great for the price and flexibility. What I tend to do is use the ElGato Turbo.264 to make AppleTV conversions and load those for use on the AppleTV itself (tweaking settings so, for example, music videos are also compatible with Zune, iPhone and iPod), and then storing my untweaked DVD rips on an external HD for connection to the WD TV. I'm still hammering out a workflow but so far I finally consistently like my results.

[rumplestiltskin]

jamerican,
That's great news about the WD box. I'd be interested in knowing whether it can play H264's intended for the iPod or AppleTV. Thanks!

I have this box, and its great for the price and flexibility. What I tend to do is use the ElGato Turbo.264 to make AppleTV conversions and load those for use on the AppleTV itself (tweaking settings so, for example, music videos are also compatible with Zune, iPhone and iPod), and then storing my untweaked DVD rips on an external HD for connection to the WD TV. I'm still hammering out a workflow but so far I finally consistently like my results.

Can you drop the iPod and AppleTV files on the WD and let me know if it plays them okay?

Thanks!

[AntnyMD]

Can you drop the iPod and AppleTV files on the WD and let me know if it plays them okay?

I knew someone was going to ask that, and last night when I posted, I debated answering. If I did, it would have said:

BTW, the anamorphic widescreen flag in QT movies is ignored by the WD TV. Files hard-coded widescreen and 4:3 resolutions play fine.

So, for example, I often will encode all content to H.264 using the AppleTV selection in Turbo.264. The resolution I use is 480x480, and I'll set the aspect setting for either 4:3 or 16:9. The Turbo.264 will put in a flag telling the AppleTV (and my iPhone) to stretch the content to either 640x480, or 853x480. Oddly though, when I convert a CinemaScope type film, the 16:9 flag displays this content at 1153x480.

[rumplestiltskin]

Can you drop the iPod and AppleTV files on the WD and let me know if it plays them okay?

I knew someone was going to ask that, and last night when I posted, I debated answering. If I did, it would have said:

BTW, the anamorphic widescreen flag in QT movies is ignored by the WD TV. Files hard-coded widescreen and 4:3 resolutions play fine.

So, for example, I often will encode all content to H.264 using the AppleTV selection in Turbo.264. The resolution I use is 480x480, and I'll set the aspect setting for either 4:3 or 16:9. The Turbo.264 will put in a flag telling the AppleTV (and my iPhone) to stretch the content to either 640x480, or 853x480. Oddly though, when I convert a CinemaScope type film, the 16:9 flag displays this content at 1153x480.

I think you may be sabotaging your workflow by not simply encoding at the proper frame size. If you would do this, you would then get files that should play everywhere in the proper size. (Just my 2 cents remembering all the trouble people have had with that damn flag...)

However, I do thank you for posting your results; should I decide to get one of these WD boxes for another TV, it's good to know what to expect.