Get DV movie in 16:9 ?

[Boro72]

Hello,

I have a Canon camcorder MD 110, which operates in DV format. I acquire my movies with WinDV software but my problem is that when I get a film, the format is always the 5 / 4 (720 * 576) while my camcorder is supposed
to make films in 16:9.
I also tried with Windows Movie Maker but still, the only import format proposed is the 720 * 576.

I knew about the 4:3 format and the 16:9 but this 5:4 format is new for me !

Another strange thing : when I open the imported avi file with MediaInfo, it says that the definition
is 720 * 576 but after it says "(16/9)" (just written after the definition).
Another one : I use to encode my DV files in xvid format and after encoding without changing the definition,
the MediaInfo says again "720 * 576" but the "(16/9)" disappeared.

So I just wonder if my camcorder is really in 16:9 and if the 720 * 576 definition is the equivalent to 16:9
as MediaInfo seems to tell me?
And may be another tool will import 16:9 native movie format?

[manono]

I knew about the 4:3 format and the 16:9 but this 5:4 format is new for me !

It shouldn't be, as all PAL DV and almost all PAL DVD is 720x576. The 16:9 just says how it's to be displayed at playback time.

I use to encode my DV files in xvid format and after encoding without changing the definition,
the MediaInfo says again "720 * 576" but the "(16/9)" disappeared.

That's because it's no longer 16:9. Don't you notice people being too tall and too slender? Don't you notice round things being oval shaped? If the DV AVI was 16:9, in the process of converting to DivX you should have resized to some 1.78:1 aspect ratio - something like 624x352. Either that or set the PAR to 16:9 so the player can do the resize. MPEG4 Modifier can do that for you, but only some players will respect that setting.

[edDV]

See this thread for an explanation of DV 4x3 and Wide 16x9. The same issues apply for DVD and DVB broadcasting.

This thread uses "NTSC" 720x480 as an example but the same issues apply to 720x576 "PAL".
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic361476.html

[p_l]

In Windows Movie Maker, under Tools, Options, Advanced, are your Video Properties set to PAL and 16:9?

[Boro72]

Ok, thank you for answering my rookie question !
I now understand better the resizing made during display of a video source.

Concerning my DV movie 720 * 576 (16/9) before encoding:
- VLC will open the file in 720 * 576
- Windows Media Player will open it in 768 * 576
(but with it, it actually looks larger as near to 16:9)
- Windows Movie Maker says it's PAL and 4:3

So it looks like WMP gives the best rendering (i.e. closer to 16/9) even if the format proposed is not correct (sorry but I was buying this camcorder because it was supposed to record in real 16:9 )

[edDV]

Ok, thank you for answering my rookie question !
I now understand better the resizing made during display of a video source.

Concerning my DV movie 720 * 576 (16/9) before encoding:
- VLC will open the file in 720 * 576
- Windows Media Player will open it in 768 * 576
(but with it, it actually looks larger as near to 16:9)
- Windows Movie Maker says it's PAL and 4:3

So it looks like WMP gives the best rendering (i.e. closer to 16/9) even if the format proposed is not correct (sorry but I was buying this camcorder because it was supposed to record in real 16:9 )

If you shot in 16x9 wide mode, the camcorder was supposed to flag it as wide. If the flag is missing you can change it in clip properties in most editing programs. Wide PAL DV should play to square pixel computer monitors as 1024x576. 4x3 will play as 768x576. As you can see, for PAL scaling, both 4x3 and 16x9 square pixel scalings are wider than 720x576.

[turk690]

So it looks like WMP gives the best rendering (i.e. closer to 16/9) even if the format proposed is not correct (sorry but I was buying this camcorder because it was supposed to record in real 16:9 wink.gif )

Exactly what do you mean by "real 16:9"? 16:9 as defined by square pixels? Or something else?

[Boro72]

turk690, you get the good question : when I read the description of my camrecorder on the canon web site
(in french), it says that the recording is in true / genuine 16/9 and that the electonic
screen is also 16/9.
The screen actually looks like 16/9 and I'm therefore expecting the same format when acquired through IEEE
interface.
The user manual says that (I take an extract of the english version of the manual to avoid translation problem) :

The camcorder uses the full width of the
CCD providing high-resolution 16:9
recording.
Since the displays on the camcorder
have an aspect ratio of 16:9, recordings
with a 4:3 aspect ratio will appear in the
center of the screen with black sidebars
Playing back a widescreen recording: TV
sets compatible with the Video ID-1
system will automatically switch to wide
(16:9) mode. Otherwise, change the
aspect ratio of the TV manually. To play
back on a TV with normal aspect ratio
(4:3) change the [TV TYPE] setting
accordingly (27).

This is why I am asking this question about the movie format and that I would like
to get my movies in 16:9 on the computer also.

[minidv2dvd]

the program i use to playback DVavi widescreen is powerdvd8, it correctly identifies and displays it as widescreen and deinterlaces it also.

[edDV]

Boro72.

Canon is saying the sensor picks up 16x9 at full width and not just cropped out of 4x3 (old way). They don't say you have access to those original pixels. They say sensor data gets converted* to standardized DV format which is always 720x576 for luminance and ~352x288 each for Cb and Cr.

Wide 16x9 or 4x3 are both H scaled and recorded as 720x576. The only difference is a data flag that tells the player to play as 16x9 (expanded to 1024x576) or 4x3 (expanded to 768x576).

Now get this (pause ... ready? Take a sip of Kir...): DVD and SD DVB broadcast work exactly the same way!


* Sensor can have more or less luminance pixels compared to 720x576. It the camera has 3 sensors for RGB, then each needs to be equal or greater than 720x576 to be equal to DV format. If the sensors are "true wide" they need to resolve 1024x576 or greater square pixels before scaling to 720x576. If your camera has one sensor, it needs to obtain R, G and B data off the same sensor by some optical filtering process. Sensor designs seek to optimize luminance to 720x576 and chroma Cb and Cr to ~360x288 each. This would be ideal for DV format but is seldom achieved in a consumer cam. Actual resolution is lower.

[Boro72]

OK edDV and thanks to all !

I learnt a lot through this discussion about my DV camcorder and more
generally about video formats.
I can now keep on encoding my videos in xvid ...