Panasonic & Sony DVD/VHS recorders

[joecass]

Anyone have any experience with either Panasonic DMR-EZ48VK or Sony RDR VXD655 ?
My LG 897T is driving me crazy.... timer recordings keep stopping, not recording the entire show, while others
do.... using the appropriate DVD-RW VR mode discs. In addition, my two year old LG DVD/VHS player barely
reads -RW VR mode discs, recordings done in LP four hour mode won't play properly. Same discs work fine
on older DVD recorders with some limitations.
I'm thinking of replacing 897T with either Panasonic EZ48VK or Sony VXD655, but reviews I've read on
both seem to indicate negative features and not uncommon early failure rates......

[jjeff]

The sad fact is that the newer DVDRs just aren't as reliable as the older ones. In the case of the Panasonic line I've had much better luck with the older ES series than the newer EZ line. The EZ-x7's were just awful and the '08 EZ-x8's were somewhat better.
From what I've read Sonys tend to error on the side of reporting false CP warnings so personally I wouldn't bother with a Sony, unless it's the HDD model which is similar to a Pioneer sold only in Canada.
I guess of the 2 you mentioned I'd tend to go with the Panny, definitely not a LG or Sony that's for sure.
If you don't need the digital tuner then I'd suggest a older ES series Panny. Maybe a '05 ES-30. I had a Panny EZ-28 which was similar to the EZ-48 and while it recorded quite well it did have it's quirks.

[joecass]

I've never owned any Panasonic machines, and I've read about all the quirks..... I do need a digital tuner, that was the point of my getting the LG, for some reason it picks up every possible HD & SD digital cable channel available on my line. The tuner itself is great ! Out of all my other machines, Sony has the best pic and noise reduction / picture controls that work remarkably well. The Panny EZ48VK doesn't do -RW VR mode nor does it record digital channels to VHS...... the Sony I understand has quirks as far as tuning digital stations, can't add or delete channels manually, which is a no-no for digital QAM cable, they're always changing channel numbers. I read about the ES series in many posts here, but don't want to go back to analog tuning anymore.
Do you know if the Sony/Pioneer models with HDD sold in Canada have digital tuners and work reliably in the U.S. ?

[usually_quiet]

I thought perhaps you wanted a deck that included a VCR, and that's why you weren't considering the Philips and Magnavox HDD recorders. ...but now you're asking about Canadian models with an HDD. Is there a another reason why the Philips and Magnavox HDD recorders don't interest you?

[joecass]

Yes I did want a deck with a VCR to do quick VHS transfers..... but I already own the Philips 3575H, it's OK but sub-par picture quality and inconsistent digital tuner. I own four machines with HDD drives, all work very well, all have analog tuners except for the Philips. So if I can't find an up to date DVD/VHS with digital tuning, I'd consider getting another HDD machine as long as it has a digital tuner compatible with my system
and the ability to record these damn copy protected programs to the hard drive

[jjeff]

None of the Canadian models will have a digital tuner. It sounds like you've done your homework well. If you really need a combo then it sounds you'll have to decide the lesser of 2 evils. As you've noted both units have their downfalls. When I tried a Sony DVDR I didn't care for it's 2+hr picture quality so I stuck with Panasonic but I also didn't like the quirks with the EZ series either. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised on the picture quality of the Panasonic's tuner thought. IMO it's about as good as a SD tuner can be. I also had a 3575 for a while and noted the same thing you did.
As you may have read Sony DVDRs tend to be on the fussy side when it comes to Copy Protection warnings. Many times reporting a CP when their really isn't one. That alone would turn me off from a Sony although I like most everything else Sony and have many other Sony products.

[usually_quiet]

You've already been told about the situation with Canadian DVD recorders, and every current VCR-DVD recorder or combo deck with a digital tuner, or with no tuner, sold in the US seems to react to copy protection flags, based on the reports I have been seeing.

There's a lot of information on removing analog copy protection, CGMS-A. TBCs and some video stabilizers strip it along with the closed captions and other user data, but they would require an external tuner. I have been able to find next to nothing about CGMS-D or other digital broadcast flags. I'm not even sure about which copy protection flags are being detected and cause recordings to fail. Nobody has said specifically what is responsible for setting off CPRM. It could be CGMS-A in every case, since CGMS-A may be sent along with the analog closed caption data required by the ATSC as well as NTSC standards.

I am beginning to think that the day when US consumers won't have the ability to record TV with anything but a cableco/satellite PVR, TiVo, or DTVPal DVR, is near.

[joecass]

The lesser of two evils seems to apply here. What I don't understand about the Pannys and Sony is, the analog hard drive models were very well designed, once they had to include digital tuning the quality of manufacturing seems to have gone down the tubes.
I also don't quite get the reason for copy protecting network broadcast programs.... I'm not talking about HBO or SHO, just normal CBS, Fox, NBC, etc. And the resultant recordings when successful are still only
480i, nowhere near actual high definition.

[yoda313]

And the resultant recordings when successful are still only
480i, nowhere near actual high definition.

You would need a high def pvr to get the full high def quality. Tivo makes a series 3 hd model now. Most cable/sat/fios companies also offer their own in-house high def models.

Also if you get a pc high def capture card you will be able to capture the ota network stations in the original high def format.

Of course unless you have a bluray burner you'll be forced to downconvert to standard def for burning dvds. Unless you have a high def compressed format player like a ps3 or xbox 360 that can handle compressed high def video sources. But that would still involve a conversion just not to standard definition.

[usually_quiet]

IMO the quality of DVD recorders in general has always been been a little iffy and they have always suffered from operational quirks. Pioneer may have been the best, if one can believe the members here, but even they made some models with very annoying problems.

Nobody knows for sure why various things are are being seen as copy protected, if being done on purpose, or if it's even real. It seems that the advertising, not even the shows themselves, are the source of a lot of the reported recording failures.

A few theories have been advanced. Some people think it's the music that is being copy protected, others think it's being done on to prevent archiving TV series on DVD so we'll be more inclined to buy the official release. I think someone else said it's being done so that we will be forced to watch commercials.

None of this makes sense to me. VCRs and PVRs aren't affected by the problem. DVD recorders are a small part of the market and most DVD recordings aren't archived.

I haven't seen a lot of reports involving Panasonics responding to copy protection either, but they are supposed to detect it.

[joecass]

Have to admit my whole reasoning for recording using DVD recorders is because I'm a totally selfish and lazy individual. I absolutely HATE watching commercials, never watch any TV in 'real time' for that reason.
I can watch an entire football game in an hour skipping thru all the nonsense. Paying for a Tivo HD PVR seems like a waste of money when
DVD/VHS/HDD accomplishes the same task albeit without being able to record Hi-Def. Same goes for cableco HD PVR. Extra $10 per month per box. That extra $120 per year could go elsewhere.....

Yes, most DVD recordings aren't archived, but this past spring I got an idea..... archive my favorite shows in April & May, to have something to watch during summer re-runs. And that's precisely what I did. Sounds crazy but it worked for me.

[usually_quiet]

The DTVPal DVR is not going to be a fee-based product and will record HD as HD. It won't be shipped unil mid-December, but there's a thread about it at Satellite Guys. It sounds interesting, although it's still mostly an unknown quantity. The bad news is that it only has an ATSC tuner, probably only records from an antenna, and there's no DVD burner, of course.

[joecass]

Well, I've solved my problem with the LG 897T machine by buying a Panasonic DMR-EZ48VK ! The Panny records all my timers flawlessly without a hiccup. I continue to try recordings with the LG, sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't. Next step is to pick up a Sony RDR-VX655
and see how that one compares to the other two.