Problems with Documentary trying to use both PAL and NTSC footage

[Lucy]

Hi,

so i am busy editing a documentary which has been shot on a range of cameras and formats. SD, HD, NTSC and PAL.
We are using Final Cut Pro to edit... and as we are nearing the end of our edit some pretty major problems in all these combinations of footage are starting to rear their heads....

We will eventually be printing the final product in DV PAL. Basically all the NTSC footage (which was sent to us via hardrive from Europe) was already converted into .mov.

I having been editing the documentary as separate sequences for each chapter and then have a final "print" sequence on which i have been nesting all the finished sequences.

Basically the problem is that when I bring the ntsc sequences into the "print" sequence they are losing frames when we play them out. (I have already exported the ntsc sequences out as quicktime, and then re-imported them into the project to counter-act the different timebase problem).
we are not getting black frame dropouts.. just the footage looks really jumpy. we have tried a variety of different techniques and different conversions.. but cant seem to rectify the situation..

in sequence settings we have "no drop frames"

Any tips??

thanks, much appreciated!

[guns1inger]

From the sounds of it, the NTSC footage is 29.970 fps interlaced. If so, there is no nice way of converting it to PAL without either dropping frames or blending frames, neither of which is conducive to quality. I suspect that there must be pro level hardware for this type of conversion that TV stations and production houses use. Perhaps someone like edDV knows of what it would be.

[manono]

Most docus I've seen where the source comes from the different formats convert one to the other by blending. As guns1inger says, there's no perfect way to do the conversion if both the input and output are interlaced. But better, I think, although not perfectly smooth playing, is to drop fields rather than frames using an AviSynth script to frameserve into your encoder:

AssumeBFF()#since it's DV video originally, I'm assuming bottom field first
Yadif(Order=0,Mode=1)#or any smartbobber you like
LanczosResize(720,576)
ChangeFPS(50)
AssumeBFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

And encode as BFF. And since they're sending hard drives, you'd think they'd send you the untouched original DV footage, rather than degrading it with a reencode to MOV.

Edit: Only now I notice that this is the MAC forum (The thread is on the front page). I have no idea if you can use AviSynth scripts on MAC computers, or if there are MAC tools that allow you to accomplish the same thing (separate or bob the fields, drop one every so often, resize for PAL DVD, and then reinterlace the whole thing.

[Herve]

hi

the final product in DV PAL.
[...]
Any tips??

convert every non-"SD PAL" files (HD and NTSC) to DV PAL (PS: use Avisynth or a real soft, not QuickTime player ) .
-> one timebase (the same) and one size for all your editing. No more surprise during export when you will finish your editing.

bye

[Lucy]

Hey, thanks for everyones suggestion,

Is avisynth compatible w Mac and Final Cut? because I tried down-loading it and using it before and couldn't get it to work

and also the documentary is in a near complete form.. iv been editing it for a couple of months already so to go back and reconvert all the footage and re-edit it again will set me back months... i'm more looking for a solution that will allow me to convert whole sequences....

[Herve]

i'm more looking for a solution that will allow me to convert whole sequences....

which ones? HD, SD NTSC and produces a SD PAl in one step? not possible.
he only -stupid- solution will be export the whole sequence with deinterlace and pray
Fields in HD are not at the same place than NTSC fields or PAL one.
if you're lucky, your result will only jerk. (and I didn't talk yet about fields order, usually "top" for HD contents, and "bottom" for DV contents )

One step is easy: export to DV PAL (the result will be ugly BUT compliant )
...you cannot use differents settings/conversions inside a sequence. Extract each different part of the sequence, export it to its own setting (DV NTSC, or HD stting), convert your export to DV PAL (with avisynth if you understand it, ... or with my soft). And exchange the converted parts (now in PAL bottom-field-first) in your editing.

bye