standalone 16:9 recorder

[dnyboy]

Just wondering if anyone can tell me which models can record widescreen format. I have tried looking up the specs on websites but no mention of aspect ratio appart from Panasonic saying all their model record widescreen.

All I need is a basic DVD recorder (with DV firewire input) that can record 4:3 & 16:9 video depending on how it's set to record, hardrive and tuner not required for me but it's hard to buy one these days without them.

Any help would be appreciated
Thanks Danny

ps: the cheaper the model the better too!

[guns1inger]

I have a Pioneer 540H that records widescreen. It has no menu switch, but decides itself based on the input. If the input is 16:9 flagged (good HD settop boxes do this, as do DVD players), it records, and flags the recording accordingly, as 16:9. Because of this, however, it does not record 16:9 form the internal tuner, which is analogue.

It seems that proper 16:9 recording is very much the exception from external ports, although I would hope that 16:9 recordings from internal digital tuners is the norm.

[usually_quiet]

Since I'm in the US, I can't advise you on specific models to look at, but that being said, it's possible to correct the aspect ratio for 16:9 anamorphic widescreen recorded with the DVD recorder set to 4:3. The resolution is the same either way, it's just the aspect ratio flags that need to be changed.

I have been doing that for a few months, using software, without re-encoding the video. Copy the DVDs to your computer and use DVDPatcher to correct the aspect ratio flag in the VOBs, plus IFOEdit to correct the aspect ratio flags in the IFOs. If you are working with elementary streams ReStream can be used to correct the aspct ratio.

Panasonics will indeed record 16:9 video, but only when using DVD-RAM, or probably using the HDD. I say probably because here, oddly enough, we don't have any current model year DVD recorders with HDDs.

[guns1inger]

I just hate having to make the extra trip through the PC when not necessary. I had a digital box that output an anamorphic image that was unflagged. The recorder recorded the image correctly, but didn't flag it 16:9, so every recording had to go through the PC to be sorted out. The current digital box does correctly flag it's output, so I can make direct recordings again (yay!)

[usually_quiet]

The Panasonic DVD recorder I have also requires that the video is tagged as 16:9 to record on a DVD-RAM disc with the aspect ratio set to 16:9. There is no setting to force 16:9 for recording, which I would guess is the norm for DVD recorders. On the other hand, there's no setting to force 4:3 recording either.

If like me, the OP isn't recording a lot of widescreen content, or wants to edit it after recording to DVD, using the computer to set flags could still be a workable option. In addition to the other programs I mentioned, some MPEG-2 editors allow the aspect ratio flag to be set to 16:9 as well.

[samijubal]

The old Toshibas that were actually made by Toshiba record 16:9 every time when set that way in the menus. The D-R4 and XS series.

[orsetto]

Are we talking more about the flag or the video itself? The original question and guns1ingers followup posts have me very confused all of a sudden.

As far as I've known, as long as the signal source (cable box, ATSC converter) is set to output anamorphic video, any DVD recorder will dutifully record that "squished" signal and it can be played back properly "stretched out" on any 16:9 television. Is that wrong? I've been using a Zenith DTT901 ATSC box to feed an anamorphic squished signal to my JVC and Pioneer recorders. The recordings play in full widescreen on 16:9 displays but look squished on a 4:3 CRT. I'd always thought this was typical of most DVD recorders, because they don't embed the flag required for automatic letterboxing on 4:3 display. The flag only seems to be an issue if you still need compatibility with older 4:3 displays, if you're strictly 16:9 does it matter? If not, then dnyboy should be able to use any recorder he wants. But if the flag is necessary, there aren't too many recorders that give full use of it: a few older Toshiba and Sony models let you make flag settings but I don't think any current models have the feature. The flag can be added later using a PC, but its a tedious workaround as guns1inger noted.

Australia is a uniquely diverse recorder market these days: mfrs offer models and features in Oz they don't offer elsewhere. You might get better info by contacting the Australian reps of various recorder brands to ask about the widescreen recording functionality of current Australia-specific models.

[jjeff]

I see it the same as your Orsetto. Any DVDR will record the squished 16:9 signal but if you want to play it back on a standard 4:3 TV you'd need the flag set. AFAIK like you I think only the older Toshibas and maybe a few others correctly set the flag which AFAIK makes the player add the letterbox when played on a 4:3 TV.
Since I only have 16:9 TVs I don't care that the flag isn't set on any of my home recorded WS DVDs. If I cared I guess a person can use a PC to set the bit, I would assume before finalizing the disc?

[usually_quiet]

I change the aspect ratio flags in the video, as well as the one in the IFOs.

All I can say is if I recorded anamorphic widescreen as 4:3 and didn't do that, as Orsetto said, I had difficulty getting it to display correctly on my old 4:3 CRT TV, which has no aspect ratio controls.

If I use software to set the flags for letterboxed picture and correct the aspect ratio to 16:9 in both the video and the IFOs, it plays correctly on my TV, as well as 4:3 TVs that have aspect ratio controls, and widescreen TVs.

I sometimes share recordings with family members that have widescreen TVs, and if the material warrents it, I record anamorphic widescreen from my OTA converter box.

[edit] I forgot something...

If I cared I guess a person can use a PC to set the bit, I would assume before finalizing the disc?

The contents of the DVD needs to be copied to the PC's HDD, corrected using DVDPatcher and IFOEdit, then re-burned to DVD. If the disc format requires finalization to play using a DVD player, it must be finalized before copying to the PC's HDD. ReStream only works on demultiplexed video, so I only use that if I am re-authoring to create a menuless DVD.

[dnyboy]

Thanks guys for the info, by the sounds of it my answer is no. What I want to achieve is a disc just like a purchesed movie, if viewed on a 16:9 TV it fill the screen (automaticaly, without changing settings on tv to strech it) and if viewed on a 4:3 TV it automaticaly letterboxes. I was hopeing to achieve this without the double handling of a PC as I have a lot of footage to transfer this way and was just looking the quickest most cost effective way of doing it.

I might check out the old Toshiba's and Sony's if it's possible it sounds like thats my best shot

Thanks again Danny

[orsetto]

An old recorder with the full flag setting feature would be the easiest quickest route for you, but there are gotchas with old recorders you need to consider. Number one is worn out or obsolete burner designs: the Sonys are essentially unrepairable at any cost, Sony no longer stocks repair parts for anything made before 2007, so cross the Sonys off your list. The Toshibas fare slightly better but can still be a nightmare if their burners go out. Occasionally you can find a "new old stock" Toshiba which would have much more life in its burner. Used or new, Toshibas have a huge cult following that drives prices up to ridiculous levels considering the age of the machines and the likelihood of expensive repairs- figure $300 to $500(US) for a good working Toshiba XS-series recorder that would hold together long enough to complete your project. Also be sure to use 8x speed media with an older model recorder, they often have trouble with current 16x media. Taiyo Yuden (TY) and Verbatim DataLife 8x DVD-R can usually be sourced online, although if no distributors stock this media in Australia you could have difficulty obtaining it. Media issues are the biggest dealkiller with pre-2006 recorders: if you live in a country where you realistically can only find 16x media, DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER buying an older standalone recorder. Some people have no problem burning new media on them, others report nothing but failure. Unless you have money to "burn", it isn't worth the risk.

One last area to consider with standalone DVD recorders is compatibility of the discs they create. All of these machines, old and new, are a bit off-spec. All of them will create discs that may or may not play well on some DVD players or computer drives, with the older recorders especially prone to this. The problem is not huge by any means, but it does crop up. Some regular users of old recorders routinely re-burn their discs using a PC to "clean up" the formatting and increase compatibility. So the question becomes, if you have a set number of camcorder tapes to transfer, and may end up stuck on the PC anyway, is it perhaps better to use the PC in the first place? Adding an encoder board to a PC is usually cheaper than buying a standalone recorder. The PC uses inexpensive, easily upgraded burners that can burn any media you find locally. Finally, the PC guarantees you can set the widescreen flag consistently without the worry of having to track down a specific, possibly fragile, expensive older standalone just to get this one feature. Ordinarily I shy away from the PC and prefer standalones for day to day recording tasks, but if you have a very specific task like "I need to dub 50 digital camcorder tapes via DV input to DVD with the widescreen flag properly set", the PC is a more suitable solution in the long run. For analog tasks, the standalones are generally simpler.

[p_l]

Just to confirm all the good advice above, and at the risk of being branded a "Toshiba cultist," I can confirm that I do what you're talking about all the time with my two Toshiba RD-XS35s, one of which I got lucky and found on eBay for $250 six months ago. For DVD distribution to friends and family who have a mix of widescreen displays and 4:3 CRTs, it makes things a lot easier.

For some DVDs I hadn't used the Toshibas for, I've also reset the flag going the PC route, with DVDPatcher and IFOEdit, and that works well too, espaecially if you want to make multiple copies of the same DVD for distribution. You only need to do this once, then you just copy the fixed DVD as your master.

[robjv1]

One last area to consider with standalone DVD recorders is compatibility of the discs they create. All of these machines, old and new, are a bit off-spec. All of them will create discs that may or may not play well on some DVD players or computer drives, with the older recorders especially prone to this. The problem is not huge by any means, but it does crop up. Some regular users of old recorders routinely re-burn their discs using a PC to "clean up" the formatting and increase compatibility.

What is the rationale behind this anyways? Why have major companies like Pioneer, JVC, Toshiba and Sony always made recorders that make off-spec discs? After much prodding, I was able to convince my father to move onto DVD recorders from VCRs, but this has always been the one big sticking point for him -- he wants to be able to take any disc and play it in any player. It just seems like as long as you stick to a decent bitrate that's not too low and record in DVD-VIDEO mode and not VR, then it should work the same from recorder to recorder.

I almost always do my standalone recordings on -RW discs and transfer to the PC for burning. When trying to edit the files, I've noticed some of the quirky discs some of the recorders create. I had a heck of a time with some DVDs from an older Sony recorder -- I could rip the files off the disc as one continuous file with DVD Decrypter or DVD Shrink, but when you dropped the file in a NLE timelime you couldn't edit the file without it skipping around and introducing a huge sound delay. The only way I could solve it was using the IFO mode in DVD Decrypter to rip about a gig of data, about a chapter and a half a time (overlapping the previous chapter) and editing the whole thing together piece by piece. Yikes!