This is ridiculous, "tuner not included".

[tvlreject]

im looking through ads for dvd recorder/vcr combos,as the sony i bought last year has finally reached its acceptance limit.the first thing i noticed was they all said "tuner not included".i called best buy and it took 10 minutes for the guy to confirm the samsung dvd-vr357 in fact had no tv tuner.what the hell are they trying to pull now.couldnt just let a good thing lay.so ill have to go through some sort of cable converter box,no biggie.no more record on dvd watch another tv program at the same time?no more fliping around with the dvd unit?no biggie.and how will my brilliant dvd record tv by timer if it cant turn to the channel.any insight to this and these question would be greatly appreciated.thank you

[jagabo]

Any tuner will be useless for over-the-air recording after Feb 2009. It would still work for analog cable but I suspect many cable operators will also switch to all (or mostly) digital soon after. Doing so would free up bandwidth for more digital and view on demand channels, give them greater security (it's much harder to view encrypted QAM without a legit box), and give subscribers more incentive to rent their PVR cable boxes -- all leading to higher profits.

[funnel71]

Cable TV should be unaffected by the switch in 09. As for the "no tuner" bit, they're not trying to pull anything. They've been selling these kinds of units for a while now. Some VCRs (although rare in later models) also had no tuners in them. The no tuner units are cheaper and have one less thing to break down on them. You just have to hook "in-line" what you want to record, so go from the wall, to your converter box, to your recorder, to your TV. There are also plenty of units out there that do have tuners, so spend what you feel you need in features.

[jjeff]

Actually there aren't too many units out there with tuners anymore, and getting less and less. Unless you want to have lots of problems with units like Panasonic's EZ series, I'd personally suggest the Philips 3575, while it's still available. It does have a digital tuner, can record OTA and QAM clear channels, includes a 160gb hdd and DVD burner. Only drawback, it's not under $100 like so many people request. New ones at Walmart are ~$300 and refurbished ones online can be had for less. Here's a link to a extensive thread on the 3575.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

[jagabo]

Cable TV should be unaffected by the switch in 09.

Cable companies aren't mandated to switch. But they are only required to continue carrying local broadcast stations (typically only a half dozen stations) as analog, or to provide digital boxes capable of receiving those stations free of charge.

But they are looking to free up bandwidth for HD, more digital SD, and other uses. They are certain to reduce the number of analog channels over time and I wouldn't be surprised to see the conversion happen quickly rather than slowly.

[tvlreject]

too bad the philips 3575 is not available in my area,anywhere.one heck of a buy there.any suggestion for a substitute?

[edDV]

As for most things that don't seem to make sense --- blame the government (USA in this case). They (FCC+Congress) mandated that all devices must have an ATSC tuner (for over the air) or no tuner (for cable/sat) but as of last summer it is illegal to produce a VCR/DVD recorder with just an analog tuner. An analog tuner can be provided with ATSC but not without.

The government has stayed out of the unencrypted QAM issue leaving that as an option for the manufacturer. They do mandate that cable companies must support Cablecard (a smart card) when supported by a TV. I'm not sure if the cable company must support Cablecard on a DVD recorder.

[wabjxo]

too bad the philips 3575 is not available in my area,anywhere.one heck of a buy there.any suggestion for a substitute?

If you can buy on-line, there are some links to online stores on this page, the 1st being the Philips online store, $299..

[tvlreject]

can not shop online .im looking now for any recorder with HD,cant find it.

[tvlreject]

what do you all think of the philips DVDR3545V,at least as in a good quality working machine?

[tvlreject]

one quick question that could resole this.can the 3575 record from and external vcr to disc?

[jjeff]

It most certainly can. It has S-input and composite. Since it looks like you're in the US you should have a Walmart near you. They should carry this model, or could? possibly order it for you. Not every Walmart near me carries the 3575, only the better ones

[funnel71]

Hey jjeff, I had a unit like you describe. It was the LG-519 or something like that...dual layer burner, 160GB hard drive, and free program guide. Haha, guess why I don't have it anymore. LOL

THE TUNER!!

The subject of this thread was the problem. The tuner went bad, and from that moment on, the unit would not start because signals from the tuner were required before it would complete its load sequence.

[jjeff]

Yes the digital tuner seems to be a big problem in any of the new DVDR's. I can't think of one where people don't seem to have one problem or another with the tuner. Most involving QAM cable, which may or may not be caused by the cable companies themselves.
I've also read many problems with LG DVDR's in general, although I'm not saying there all bad, but seems to be a fair amount of problems. The Philips on the other hand doesn't seem to have "as many" complaints. Also I don't think the tuner has anything to do with the harddrive on the Philips and it does not have any type of TVGOS that you may be referring to.
I'm not saying the 3575 is perfect by any stretch, but considering what's out there.......I'd say it's near, if not on the top. IMO

[SmokieStover]

"TUNER FREE", in big letters on the box........trying to put a positive spin on things I guess. Anyone see this besides me?

[edDV]

I was listening to a Costco employee trying to explain DVD recorder "no tuner" to an older couple who only understood cable coax loop to their VCR. Although the Costco guy knew the score, the couple just didn't get the idea of a composite or S-Video connection from the cable box and didn't want to pay the $50 more for the model with the ATSC + analog tuners. Problem is an ATSC tuner isn't cheap to manufacture and the FCC+Congress won't allow an analog tuner without an ATSC tuner. Even for cable customers who can't use the ATSC tuner.

[usually_quiet]

It is going to be hard for a lot of old folks to adjust. Switching from analog to digital sure is a headache if you don't want to use a DVR supplied by the cable provider for recording. My parents have been getting offers from Verizon for FIOS phone/digital cable/intenet packages. As the family technophile, I have been put in charge of finding out how this will work and uncovering all the "hidden" expenses. At this point the money it will cost them to replace their VCR, and the inconvenience of learning how to use a new device is probably a dealbreaker for them.

I had to explain to them why they can't use their VCR as they do now if they switch from Comcast to Verizon, and would probably need to rent a DVR from Verizon or a 3rd party to enjoy the same kind of convenience for recording TV as they do now. My father's response to this information was not something I would want to repeat in this forum.

Based on some of the replies in this thread I did mention the Philips as a possible solution, but have no idea whether of not it, or their new TV with a QAM tuner, will work without a cable box. I guess there is a chance they will, since they have no interest in HBO, Showtime, or other premium channels.

[edDV]

It is going to be hard for a lot of old folks to adjust. Switching from analog to digital sure is a headache if you don't want to use a DVR supplied by the cable provider for recording. My parents have been getting offers from Verizon for FIOS phone/digital cable/intenet packages. As the family technophile, I have been put in charge of finding out how this will work and uncovering all the "hidden" expenses. At this point the money it will cost them to replace their VCR, and the inconvenience of learning how to use a new device is probably a dealbreaker for them.

I had to explain to them why they can't use their VCR as they do now if they switch from Comcast to Verizon, and would probably need to rent a DVR from Verizon or a 3rd party to enjoy the same kind of convenience for recording TV as they do now. My father's response to this information was not something I would want to repeat in this forum.

Based on some of the replies in this thread I did mention the Philips as a possible solution, but have no idea whether of not it, or their new TV with a QAM tuner, will work without a cable box. I guess there is a chance they will, since they have no interest in HBO, Showtime, or other premium channels.

The "new" QAM tuner will work for Comcast but not for Verizon FIOS. You are limited to their tuner boxes.

[oldandinthe way]

I just bought a Sony RDR-VX525 HD HDMI DVD Recorder/VCR Combo Player no tuner but it has an IRBlaster to control the cable box.

Haven't tested it yet but this seems to be a good compromise. Since ATSC/QAM tuners are limited in the cable channels they can receive.

This model is sold at Costco.

Also my previous Lite-On 5005 had a tuner which sucked. TV show recording was done using the video output of the cable box or my VCR's tuner.

[tvlreject]

well,i went ahead with the philips dvdr3545(tuner for ant,analog cable,digital cable includ.).as nice as the 3575 was,it simply was not available in my area.i had to have it NOW,cuz i was sitting there waiting for my sony to load a disc for the umththrillionth time.all i wanted was a nice unit to transfer my vhs to disc with and the sony never really cut it.i did take the suggestion of getting a philips however.what i should have done was get the 3575 and use an old vcr for the transfer.i figured the philips would have a good vcr but i forgot the fact that newer vcrs have trouble tracking older vhs which was also recorded on(several)different machines.in my haste,well .word for the common users out there like me.dvd/vcr combos seem nice but these units might leave you disappointed in that basically the vcr part will not track the tape to the point where the little line across the bottom will not go away and thats what will be recorded to the dvd. especially your older tapes.now i will have to record mass portions of vhs to dvd,and edit the disc on my computer.with virtual dub i can cut off the bottom of the picture and so forth(or just use the ease out effect in wmm when editing.buyer beware,buyer beware.i guess in the end when the work is over and all my vhs stuff is on disc it will all be worth it.then i can get a real nice dvd recorder/player with no vcr,and a dvr.as i will throw my vhs in the trash,(goodbye to another era) (by the way i might start another post for this one ,but any suggestions as far as that pesky tracking line goes?i think youre just stuck with whatever the vcr can do.)

[tvlreject]

restore trim ima get this

[oldandinthe way]

Amazingly the Sony RDR-VX525 seems to read old tapes which have had all sorts of problems at the bottom. Still early in my testing but its one good thing. The manual for this model is poor. Recording quality high.

What I thought was media incompatibility was in fact the unexplained error message it gave when I put a Pal DVD in the player.

It made in Korea. Is it a Samsung product?